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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33740 on: June 29, 2024, 11:12:37 AM »
That is NOT the core problem with urban homelessness, at all.  Not even close.

It is a problem for SOME folks on the lower end of the economic spectrum, but they aren't homeless, with a few exceptions.  They just live in less than ideal homes.  Section 8 housing and the like.  Nearly every new building here brags about dedicating part of their apartments for low income folks.  It's mostly a ruse of course, they will say "incomes of 80% of the area or lower", which around here is not a poor person.

The homeless are NOT that way because they are poor and nothing else (with a few exceptions).  

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33741 on: June 29, 2024, 11:17:02 AM »
That is NOT the core problem with urban homelessness, at all.  Not even close.

It is a problem for SOME folks on the lower end of the economic spectrum, but they aren't homeless, with a few exceptions.  They just live in less than ideal homes.  Section 8 housing and the like.  Nearly every new building here brags about dedicating part of their apartments for low income folks.  It's mostly a ruse of course, they will say "incomes of 80% of the area or lower", which around here is not a poor person.

The homeless are NOT that way because they are poor and nothing else (with a few exceptions). 

Correct.

Again, it's a mental healthcare problem, and a drug abuse problem which is partly the same thing.  As a nation we really need to focus on how we handle mental healthcare, we're not good at it.  

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33742 on: June 29, 2024, 11:26:58 AM »
That is NOT the core problem with urban homelessness, at all.  Not even close.

It is a problem for SOME folks on the lower end of the economic spectrum, but they aren't homeless, with a few exceptions.  They just live in less than ideal homes.  Section 8 housing and the like.  Nearly every new building here brags about dedicating part of their apartments for low income folks.  It's mostly a ruse of course, they will say "incomes of 80% of the area or lower", which around here is not a poor person.

The homeless are NOT that way because they are poor and nothing else (with a few exceptions). 
It is. I know it's vogue to call mental health and whatever the real problem, and obviously those are contributing factors, but the main issue is the lack of housing. That's the biggest issue, everything else is mostly noise.

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33743 on: June 29, 2024, 11:32:49 AM »
It is. I know it's vogue to call mental health and whatever the real problem, and obviously those are contributing factors, but the main issue is the lack of housing. That's the biggest issue, everything else is mostly noise.

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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33744 on: June 29, 2024, 02:26:38 PM »
Anyone who wants to build them. I don't find that motivation to build to be the major issue. Usually it is other things.
One of my best clients does affordable housing projects (apartments). The state gets involved, of course. IHDA (in Illinois) makes it really hard to do these projects. The other problem is that the neighbors come out in force against them. I've got one going right now that we started in February of 2021. Still has not broken ground. Of course, it's Illinois, which is very Illanoying. 

The Government is the problem here Max. If only we had less Government and regulations.

Those who propose less regulation get my vote. Maybe you should consider that aspect too.

U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33745 on: June 29, 2024, 03:09:28 PM »
One of my best clients does affordable housing projects (apartments). The state gets involved, of course. IHDA (in Illinois) makes it really hard to do these projects. The other problem is that the neighbors come out in force against them. I've got one going right now that we started in February of 2021. Still has not broken ground. Of course, it's Illinois, which is very Illanoying.

The Government is the problem here Max. If only we had less Government and regulations.

Those who propose less regulation get my vote. Maybe you should consider that aspect too.
When have I said otherwise?

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33746 on: June 29, 2024, 04:51:43 PM »
It is. I know it's vogue to call mental health and whatever the real problem, and obviously those are contributing factors, but the main issue is the lack of housing. That's the biggest issue, everything else is mostly noise.
IMHO not having enough housing stock is a major problem, as it relates to affordability and ability for those who are on the lower end of the income spectrum the ability to amass wealth. 

IMHO it is NOT an explanation for the homelessness problem. i don't think people on the low end of the income spectrum just say "eh, I'll go sleep in a tent on the side of the road!" Most of those who end up in that situation actually do have mental health or drug abuse problems. 

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33747 on: June 29, 2024, 06:33:54 PM »
IMHO not having enough housing stock is a major problem, as it relates to affordability and ability for those who are on the lower end of the income spectrum the ability to amass wealth.

IMHO it is NOT an explanation for the homelessness problem. i don't think people on the low end of the income spectrum just say "eh, I'll go sleep in a tent on the side of the road!" Most of those who end up in that situation actually do have mental health or drug abuse problems.
I mean, yes, they often do have mental health or drug problems or both. The people that are the least able to care for themselves are the ones first up on the chopping block for housing. People with mental health problems are often really annoying and no one wants an active drug user in their house, so these are the people least likely be offered help or take advantage of it if they get some. 

That said, there is no escaping the math of the situation. Housing shortages make the price go up, which makes housing a more valuable and scarcer resource. It isn't available to everyone, though nearly everyone wants it. I think people are describing the types of people who are homeless and deciding that is the reason they are homeless, as opposed to the lack of homes.

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33748 on: June 29, 2024, 07:43:47 PM »
the difference between $800/month rental and $500/month rental won't change to homeless issue

at all
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33749 on: June 29, 2024, 08:29:19 PM »
the difference between $800/month rental and $500/month rental won't change to homeless issue

at all
Uhhhh, false? 

There are a ton of people who could afford $500/mo that can't afford 160% of that.  Duh.

And I'd like to chime in that the % of homeless having mental health issues is probably lower than most people think.
Once you are homeless, I challenge any of you to not have some sort of breakdown.  But for it being the cause, I think it's overblown.

What's not really discussed is that many of these people are just getting by and then they have a financial event that screws them up and they literally can't pay for housing.  And they have no one they can ask for help.  So many of these people have both ostracized themselves from family and friends of means AND wind up befriending others that are just getting by and can't help.
They've painted themselves into a corner (often their own fault and bad decisions) and have no one to get them through that one event.

It's on them.  They are to blame.  But it's not all drug addicts and mentally unstable people going homeless.  Once they are homeless, THEN much of them lose it or do what people around them do in order to escape:  drugs.

Also, a great many of them were kicked out of their homes before turning 18 anyway (again, because of their own bad decisions/behaviors).  I don't think that aspect is discussed enough, either.  Many of these homeless people grew up living in squalor, moving from motel to motel week to week, always surrounded by drugs, violence, and poverty...and then they're supposed to magically navigate the system to come up with first, last, and security deposit?  It's a joke.

Oh, and by and large, having just done a search for a new place to live, as a renter, security deposits have gone through the roof. They used to be like $2-300 - maybe like 25-30% of the monthly rent, but now they're often equal to the monthly rent.
I don't know what's caused that, but it's insane and further exacerbates the problem.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33750 on: June 29, 2024, 08:33:59 PM »
Homelessness is almost entirely a mental healthcare problem and a alcohol/drug problem.  You have to start there.
Symptoms after the problem occurs.

Becoming homeless is very different than being homeless for 6 months.  Go 6 months on the street and tell me you're mentally stable and haven't touched a drug.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33751 on: June 29, 2024, 08:44:44 PM »
Build more homes
My idea is to piggyback on "van life" and give homeless people a VW bus that is outfitted with a bed in the back and give them a monthly gas card (or they could be electric).
Buy abandoned lots as 'park-n-live' areas for them to have a home base.  These would have a water source and bathrooms/showers.
.
Hardy-har-har, OAM, you're nuts.  I know, it's just a crazy idea, but it does address some things.

1 - it gets them off the streets
2 - it allows them to be mobile - autonomy, hope, options 
3 - provides a much cheaper, climate-controlled living quarter

They'd be able to go to job interviews.  Visit family that may be able to help.  Hell, they could go park in rural areas if they want.  If/when they get back on their feet, they have a payment plan.  Or you could say they only get it for a year.
The point is, it would seriously help out several major problems at once.  It's just an idea.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33752 on: June 29, 2024, 08:48:00 PM »
Oh, and by and large, having just done a search for a new place to live, as a renter, security deposits have gone through the roof. They used to be like $2-300 - maybe like 25-30% of the monthly rent, but now they're often equal to the monthly rent.
I don't know what's caused that, but it's insane and further exacerbates the problem.
why, do you suppose?
Just evil landlords that would rather their units sit empty?


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"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33753 on: June 29, 2024, 09:00:36 PM »
People NEED a place to live.  So upcharge them on the front end.  What are they going to do?  

And it's a fun myth that you get your deposit back, even if you are a neat freak.

It's just one of a thousand lies we all tolerate.  We had a good run.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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