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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33278 on: June 18, 2024, 05:18:14 PM »
It's not just vibes. Americans' perception of the economy has completely changed. - ABC News (go.com)
It's not just vibes. Americans' perception of the economy has completely changed. - ABC News (go.com)

An interesting analysis, I think, "explaining" how consumer perception has changed, I think much of it due to inflation suddenly being a lot higher than it has been in a long time.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33279 on: June 18, 2024, 05:31:00 PM »
https://www.tonetoatl.com/2024/06/John-Lewis-Barbecue-Opening-New-Restaurant-Selig-Ansley-Mall-Midtown-Atlanta.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1CrfhnRqtWmWqqBW_fRf0qUzuLM1NoSsY9ys6PWk4CudtJgKcK4DQBbIA_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw#more

This is great news for me anyway, new BBQ place about a mile distant.

Robert Moss, Southern Living's Contributing Barbecue Editor, named Lewis Barbecue #8 in his list of The South's Top 50 Barbecue Joints Of 2023.  In his report, Moss notes,  "Everything about Lewis Barbecue is impressive, from the flawless brisket that headlines the menu to the sublime cowboy beans served alongside."  (Atlanta's Fox Bros. Bar-B-Q landed at #49 on the list) 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33280 on: June 18, 2024, 05:37:45 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on June 18, 2024, 04:22:45 PM
Some are, maybe most, but not all, even on paper.  I think most of the anti-booze folks are in the countryside, while the suburban Baptists don't make a deal about it.
Quote from: utee94 on June 18, 2024, 04:27:45 PM
My inlaws are Baptist.  They weren't "practicing" for many years, and we enjoyed many margaritas and bottles of wine with them.  My FIL even had a really beautiful custom wine rack made and built-in to a custom sideboard for his dining room.

Then a few years later they decided to rejoin an active Baptist church, and began hosting small-group church dinners and whatnot at their house.  That custom wine rack completely disappeared, left a weird opening in the sideboard.  I never said anything about it, we still always had plenty of wine over at their house, but always from the back cupboard in the butler's pantry.

I suppose that's an example of virtue signaling.
Yeah, and I had neighbors for a while at my old house who were Mormon. Nice family. They'd come over to hang out on our back porch...

...and drink my homebrew. 

Obviously Mormon, but not exactly observant of ALL of the tenets of their religion. (The fact that the husband had apparently done a little time for a drug thing much earlier in his life might have been a clue--but he was a pretty good upstanding dude by the point in his life when we met him...)
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utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33281 on: June 18, 2024, 05:39:35 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on June 18, 2024, 05:31:00 PM
https://www.tonetoatl.com/2024/06/John-Lewis-Barbecue-Opening-New-Restaurant-Selig-Ansley-Mall-Midtown-Atlanta.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1CrfhnRqtWmWqqBW_fRf0qUzuLM1NoSsY9ys6PWk4CudtJgKcK4DQBbIA_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw#more

This is great news for me anyway, new BBQ place about a mile distant.

Robert Moss, Southern Living's Contributing Barbecue Editor, named Lewis Barbecue #8 in his list of The South's Top 50 Barbecue Joints Of 2023.  In his report, Moss notes,  "Everything about Lewis Barbecue is impressive, from the flawless brisket that headlines the menu to the sublime cowboy beans served alongside."  (Atlanta's Fox Bros. Bar-B-Q landed at #49 on the list)

John Lewis is legit.  He trained under Aaron Franklin for a few years, and then moved to become the pitmaster at LA BBQ which was owned by Leann Mueller who is part of the Mueller BBQ royalty family here in Central Texas.  I've had his food several times and it's absolutely delicious.  I'll be surprised if it's not immediately recognized as the best brisket in Atlanta.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33282 on: June 18, 2024, 05:45:45 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on June 18, 2024, 04:48:35 PM
I didn't posit an alternative explanation because it is a complicated mess but we are so deep into this issue now that I feel like I might as well. 

Roe was a terrible decision.  I don't mean that on policy grounds, I mean it on legal grounds.  I don't really have a problem with the policy embraced by Roe (basically it was viability if you read the full decision).  What I DO have a problem with is the legal justification.  In order to find a "Constitutional Right" to Abortion, the Court started from the due process clause of the 14th amendment, text:
"No State shall . . .deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". 

Ah, where is Abortion mentioned?  Well, it isn't but the justices came up with the idea that the "penumbras and emanations" of this clause created an unenumerated and previously unheard of "right to privacy".  Thus did Douglas rule in Griswold vs Connecticut that Connecticut's restrictions on Birth Control violated the US Constitution. 

My view of this has always been that if you need to use "penumbras and emanations" to get from the text to your desired ruling, you are reaching.  If SCOTUS can find a Constitutional right to an Abortion in the above cited text, then they can make up anything they want and we live in a Judicial Oligarchy rather than a Republic. 
BTW I agree with this. Roe is a very questionable decision legally IMHO. I feel like it was a more liberal court who wanted to "find" a right, but didn't want to create a general right to privacy in the more libertarian "if you ain't hurtin' nobody who ain't payin' extra fer it, no harm no foul." 

My discussion of the post-Dobbs world isn't a legal analysis of either Roe or Dobbs. It's a political analysis of how people could approach the issue post-Roe and pre-Dobbs, and how that has now changed. 

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 18, 2024, 04:54:26 PM
I think that's a nicely done summary and analysis.
Agreed so I'm glomming on to your praise lol...
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33283 on: June 18, 2024, 05:46:50 PM »
I had some Jewish friends in Cincy who ate pork, not that often, but they liked it.  They didn't seem entirely "observant", but they were proud of being Jewish.

One dude at work I knew told me his Temple was for atheistic Jews, they went to Temple as a kind of social experience, no God in it.

On another topic, around here are some, um, "gentlemen's clubs", one advertises "Live Women", which I suppose is better than some alternatives.  It's next to the liquor store I use, so I see it fairly often.  That strip along Piedmont Avenue used to be completely skuzzy but is being fairly rapidly gentrified, but still has 5-6 strip bars and 2-3 massage parlors.  There is a large apartment complex being built near there now that could end up gentrifying the whole area.  They tore down a scuzzy motel to build it.

Residential project rises on gravesite of blighted hotel | Urbanize Atlanta

But I digress.  I'm quite happy about the news of the new BBQ joint near us.  Fox Bros is a drive, with little parking.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33284 on: June 18, 2024, 06:38:40 PM »

Quote
Social Security is losing money already.  Adding people below the median obviously makes that worse.  
Kind of the crux of the whole argument. Immigrants by and large don't have access to social security. Their kids tend to do better than native born. So they are a net plus to social security. Try as you might, the math ain't mathin' for you.
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Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33285 on: June 18, 2024, 07:06:48 PM »
Maximum Sam, 

May I ask why you are so pro-immigration?  

I kind of fall somewhere in the middle. I do think we need some immigration, but not wide open like it has been under Biden. I feel like it definitely depresses wages, and puts a strain on certain social services. Around here, in the 70’s, all the trades like bricklayers, painters, sheetrockers, etc were mostly lower class but native American. A lot were white. My own home was built in ‘72, I’ve had different acquaintances tell me they did the framing or the brick etc. Sometime in the 80’s, this changed. 

I deal with a lot of home builders. By and large all trades are 100% immigrants. Most consist of 3-10 guys. One guy will speak English (barely), he will be the foreman. The rest do not speak any English. I would guess that 99% are not here legally, or not 100% legal. The guys that are truly bilingual are the ones that make the most money. 

You’d never find a regular white ( or black) guy/crew working on a home build around here as either a framer, drywall, concrete, bricklayer, etc. We can argue all we want about how Americans don’t want to work or whatever but I honestly think you’d easily fill those jobs if the pay was high enough. 

All the politicians seem to care about is a “ living wage” at fast food joints, but few want to organically exams the conditions that got us here. 

Things like excessive regulations, overbearing requirements, the list is endless. 
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Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33286 on: June 18, 2024, 07:21:00 PM »
Some really good points have been made about immigration in the past, back before there was any kind of welfare or help. People that came here had to make it, or simply die out. Many did die.  Obviously a lot of bad things came out of this era like sweat shops and abuses, but now we’ve swung the pendulum hard the other way. 

100+ years ago, the entire population of the country was quite low. I think around 1900 we were about 75 million. We can argue about when we should taper it down from the Ellis Island days, but they did in fact start regulating how many could come and where they could come from. It seems to have been a good thing, as the US did quite well in the 20th century. Many of our greatest successes were from 1st and 2nd generation.  People like Tesla, Einstein ( in regards to developing the A-bomb). Numerous others. We had an empty country, it needed filled. 

At one time, we needed factories and workers to fill them. We had good jobs.  Now?  How many framers and concrete workers do we need?  There has to be balance. 
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Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33287 on: June 18, 2024, 07:26:29 PM »
And I’m not so dense to think that immigrants don’t create jobs.  They need places to live, food to eat, fuel for cars, everything that you and I need. Nobody can define when these add up to a net positive for the economy vs a drag.  My guess is when many end up in prison, or have extensive medical needs, or end up on whatever kind of welfare they can get. Many don’t pay income tax, because they don’t have taxable income. They do pay sales tax, property tax via rent, fuel tax.  

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Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33288 on: June 18, 2024, 07:29:27 PM »
I loathe the notion that we need to let people in who are in STEM fields. Mostly because I deal with a lot of these people at my job and most do not impress me. I have no idea why we hire anybody from the University of Timbuktu when there are so many Americans with college degrees who can’t get jobs. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33289 on: June 18, 2024, 07:40:26 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on June 18, 2024, 05:39:35 PM
John Lewis is legit.  He trained under Aaron Franklin for a few years, and then moved to become the pitmaster at LA BBQ which was owned by Leann Mueller who is part of the Mueller BBQ royalty family here in Central Texas.  I've had his food several times and it's absolutely delicious.  I'll be surprised if it's not immediately recognized as the best brisket in Atlanta.
Great to hear if he exceeds Fox Bros.  I will have to try. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33290 on: June 18, 2024, 07:48:14 PM »
Quote from: Gigem on June 18, 2024, 07:06:48 PM
Maximum Sam,

May I ask why you are so pro-immigration? 

Yes. In the wake of COVID, as the economy returned to normal, help wanted signs were everywhere. Business actually went out of business due to the lack of available labor. At the same time, the Biden administration was getting all sorts of flak for not doing enough about the people who were crossing the border and trying to work in these jobs. That, to me, is the literal definition of insanity.

Then you do some research and learn about all the facts, which lead one to believe immigration isn't just a good but an essential part of a successful nation and economy. The national debate on immigration is almost entirely based on feelings and emotion. The Obama administration was one of the most aggressive deporters in history, and Trump ran on the idea that we were letting everyone in. Biden's immigration policy is hardly distinguishable from Trump's, yet people consider it "wide open." 

Essentially, I feel our immigration policy is making us poorer, and both parties insist in policies which will make us poorer still.
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Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33291 on: June 18, 2024, 07:49:35 PM »
And while we’re on the topic of immigration…WTF do we have so many foreign doctors?  I mean, it seems like more than half the Dr’s I deal with are not American.  Lots of Indians, Asians, a few Eastern Europe. Do we just not have enough medical schools?  And if so, do we need more?  
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