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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32830 on: June 12, 2024, 11:08:37 AM »
He will of course make conservative judicial and other appointments, so there is that I suppose.
Yeah, no biggie.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32831 on: June 12, 2024, 11:10:00 AM »
He tends to surround himself with criminals and idiots, and the non-idiots all end up hating him, which exacerbates the problem of getting things done.
Sounds like a great candidate to me.  Let's vote for him.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32832 on: June 12, 2024, 11:15:40 AM »
The judicial appointments are obviously a good reason to prefer A over B.  I'm of the opinion that Presidents are less influential than many/some think.  They are prominent in the news, but often things happen clearly outside their control or influence.

I likewise think the Fed is more influential than many/some think, outside the business/investing community.  

So, I think folks tend to ascribe more import to a Presidential election than I do, when after the fact, Presidents, to me, seem to accomplish relatively little in the main, outside of getting us into stupid wars, which is a pretty large thing of course.

I'm against stupid wars.  Even good wars, if there are any, I dislike.

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32833 on: June 12, 2024, 11:15:59 AM »
The "Trump tax cuts" were fabriated by Congress, nearly as I can tell.  Trump signed what they handed him.

My real point is that, in politics, it's obvious you need as many allies as you can find.  Pissing everyone off isn't a route to  getting things done.  Reagan had O'Neill as an ally on the other side of the aisle, and it helped him get stuff done, at least earlier in his Administration.

Trump is full of bluster and promises about this and that, to me, it's nearly all hot air, he has no clue how to get actual useful legislation passed (if here is such a thing).
unfortunately, believe that your underlined part is probably true. however, believe this means he will do less damage to the country than the insane amount of damage that President Shits-his-diapers has done in less than 4 years.

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32834 on: June 12, 2024, 11:17:22 AM »
He did that by just running for office, with his campaign pledge to drain the swamp. He was hamstrung from the start because of that pledge.

The Federal Government should be about 1/4 the size it is right now, and it was threatened. 93 percent of Federal employees vote democrat.

What did you think was gonna happen?
like much of what comes out of his mouth, that pledge was complete and utter bullshit. 

you don't pledge to drain the swamp and then proceed to staff your administration chock full with swamp creatures.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32835 on: June 12, 2024, 11:19:27 AM »
One thing that the Biden administration is a country mile better at is running the high levels of the administration. Not much turnover, leaks, and drama. The Trump Cabinet was rank with yes men, sycophants, neer-do-wells, and all the mentioned leaks, drama, and fighting through the media.
I actually tend to think that we were protected from the worst excesses Trump wanted because he mostly brought in people who knew government around him. The ones who were telling him "No, you can't do that Mr President, it's Unconstitutional" or "No, you can't do that Mr President, it's illegal" or "No, you can't do that Mr President, it's not one of the duties a President has control over in the government"...

You know, all the people who worked for him who are warning us against him being reelected. 

If he's elected again, you'll see him surround himself with only yes-men who are more than willing to aid and abet him doing whatever he wishes whenever he wants. 

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32836 on: June 12, 2024, 11:19:50 AM »
He will of course make conservative judicial and other appointments, so there is that I suppose.
which blows my mind because the man is so obviously not some social conservative bible thumping jesus freak. Trump was a run of the mill NYC democrat his entire adult life who was a pussy hound that liked to party and live the high life. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32837 on: June 12, 2024, 11:20:52 AM »
Any notion ANY President is going to "drain any swamp" in DC is vaporware to me, a blustery promise meaning nothing.  Even Trump's promise to cut two regs for every new one, to me, was silly, and never happened in any real sense.  One can cut some meaningless outdated reg easily enough for days at a time.

The CFR continues to grow at an increasing pace.

Like te national debt, which Trump said he could eliminate in eight years.  Yeah, sure.  Not remotely possible.

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32838 on: June 12, 2024, 11:23:25 AM »
You know, all the people who worked for him who are warning us against him being reelected.
it's not all the people who worked for him, it's a few. you mean pieces of shit scumbags like Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, and John Bolton? Lulz.

If those guys aren't endorsing him and against him, kind of makes me say good f*ck those pieces of shit. I wouldn't want anyone to be President that any one of those f*ck sticks endorse.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32839 on: June 12, 2024, 11:28:11 AM »
I'm of the opinion that Presidents are less influential than many/some think.  They are prominent in the news, but often things happen clearly outside their control or influence.

So, I think folks tend to ascribe more import to a Presidential election than I do, when after the fact, Presidents, to me, seem to accomplish relatively little in the main, outside of getting us into stupid wars, which is a pretty large thing of course.
I'm of the opinion that Presidents actually don't get a lot of opportunity to proactively do much in the way of good, especially domestically. But they can do a TREMENDOUS amount of bad, especially wrt to wars and foreign policy. 

For the most part, domestic stuff is generally Congress. Presidents can influence what Congress does, of course, but ultimately they sign what Congress puts on their desks and then the executive branch in general implements it. 

Like you I don't really credit or blame the President with most of what happens economically unless I can point to specific policies they championed that had specific effects that I can tie to those policies. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32840 on: June 12, 2024, 11:28:49 AM »
24 former Trump allies and aides who turned against him | CNN Politics

1. His vice president, Mike Pence: “The American people deserve to know that President Trump asked me to put him over my oath to the Constitution. … Anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be president of the United States.”
2. His second attorney general, Bill Barr: “Someone who engaged in that kind of bullying about a process that is fundamental to our system and to our self-government shouldn’t be anywhere near the Oval Office.”
3. His first secretary of defense, James Mattis: “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people – does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us.”
4. His second secretary of defense, Mark Esper: “I think he’s unfit for office. … He puts himself before country. His actions are all about him and not about the country. And then, of course, I believe he has integrity and character issues as well.”
5. His chairman of the joint chiefs, retired Gen. Mark Milley, seemed to invoke Trump: “We don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We take an oath to the Constitution and we take an oath to the idea that is America – and we’re willing to die to protect it.”
6. His first secretary of state, Rex Tillerson: “(Trump’s) understanding of global events, his understanding of global history, his understanding of US history was really limited. It’s really hard to have a conversation with someone who doesn’t even understand the concept for why we’re talking about this.”
Then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson looks at then-President Donald Trump during a ceremony to commemorate the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks at the Pentagon on September 11, 2017. 
Andrew Harrer/Pool/Getty Images)
7. His first ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley: “He used to be good on foreign policy and now he has started to walk it back and get weak in the knees when it comes to Ukraine. A terrible thing happened on January 6 and he called it a beautiful day.”
8. His presidential transition vice-chairman, Chris Christie: “Someone who I would argue now is just out for himself.”
9. His second national security adviser, HR McMaster: “We saw the absence of leadership, really anti-leadership, and what that can do to our country.”
10. His third national security adviser, John Bolton: “I believe (foreign leaders) think he is a laughing fool.”
11. His second chief of staff, John Kelly: “A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law. There is nothing more that can be said. God help us.”
12. His former acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, who resigned as US special envoy to Ireland after January 6, 2021: “I quit because I think he failed at being the president when we needed him to be that.”
Trump and then-acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney at a luncheon with representatives of the United Nations Security Council at the White House on December 5, 2019. 
Mark Wilson/Getty Images
13. One of his many former communications directors, Anthony Scaramucci: “He is the domestic terrorist of the 21st century.”
14. Another former communications director, Stephanie Grisham: “I am terrified of him running in 2024.”
15. His secretary of education, Betsy DeVos, who resigned after January 6: “When I saw what was happening on January 6 and didn’t see the president step in and do what he could have done to turn it back or slow it down or really address the situation, it was just obvious to me that I couldn’t continue.”
16. His secretary of transportation, Elaine Chao, who resigned after January 6: “At a particular point the events were such that it was impossible for me to continue, given my personal values and my philosophy.
17. His first secretary of the Navy, Richard Spencer: “…the president has very little understanding of what it means to be in the military, to fight ethically or to be governed by a uniform set of rules and practices.”
Then-Acting Defense Secretary Richard Spencer listens to Trump during a Cabinet meeting on July 16, 2019. 
Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images
18. His first homeland security adviser, Tom Bossert: “The President undermined American democracy baselessly for months. As a result, he’s culpable for this siege, and an utter disgrace.”
19. His former personal lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen: “Donald’s an idiot.”
20. His White House lawyer, Ty Cobb: “Trump relentlessly puts forth claims that are not true.”
21. A former director of strategic communications, Alyssa Farah Griffin, who is now a CNN political commentator: “We can stand by the policies, but at this point we cannot stand by the man.”
22. A top aide in charge of his outreach to African Americans, Omarosa Manigault Newman: “Donald Trump, who would attack civil rights icons and professional athletes, who would go after grieving black widows, who would say there were good people on both sides, who endorsed an accused child molester; Donald Trump, and his decisions and his behavior, was harming the country. I could no longer be a part
of this madness.”
Sarah Matthews, former deputy White House press secretary, arrives to testify before the House select committee investigating the January 6 attack in the Cannon House Office Building on July 21, 2022. 
Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images
23. A former deputy press secretary, Sarah Matthews, who resigned after January 6: “I thought that he did do a lot of good during his four years. I think that his actions on January 6 and the lead-up to it, the way that he’s acted in the aftermath, and his continuation of pushing this lie that the election is stolen has made him wholly unfit to hold office every again.”
24. His final chief of staff’s aide, Cassidy Hutchinson: “I think that Donald Trump is the most grave threat we will face to our democracy in our lifetime, and potentially in American history.”



Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32841 on: June 12, 2024, 11:32:30 AM »
I actually tend to think that we were protected from the worst excesses Trump wanted because he mostly brought in people who knew government around him. The ones who were telling him "No, you can't do that Mr President, it's Unconstitutional" or "No, you can't do that Mr President, it's illegal" or "No, you can't do that Mr President, it's not one of the duties a President has control over in the government"...
it actually worked in the opposite way in which you describe. 

Trump tried repeatedly to pull out of Afghanistan and Syria, but because he didn't actually know how the machine that is the US gov't works, his advisors and generals kept lying to him and pulling fast ones over him blocking him from accomplishing those withdraw goals. Another example: Obama had completely shut down gain of function research in 2014. That little lying f*ckstick weasel Anthony Faucci was able to basically roll the Trump administration and re-start gain of function research back in 2017, only for a world wide pandemic to break out in 2019 due to a virus that almost certainly leaked from a research lab that was performing gain of function research.  

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32842 on: June 12, 2024, 11:41:02 AM »
This is the part that makes me laugh out loud. And….if he’s supposedly a billionaire and paying pornstars is might shady, why not pay it in cash ?  $130,000 should be peanuts for a supposed billionaire.
a) oh he's most definitely a billionaire. how liquid he actually is- who knows- but his real estate assets are worth billions with a b. his real estate assets in Palm Beach and Doral alone are worth over a billion dollars, and he has many more real estate assets than just these. outside of his real estate holdings he's inherited a sh*t ton of money from his very wealthy father, made millions upon millions from his tv deal with NBC, book/publishing deals, and in licensing deals where he'll just license his name to other developers high rise condo projects. he's a very wealthy guy. having said that- getting into politics has actually put a dent in his net worth. which is insane because in this country- typically that has the opposite effect- people typically get into politics and get rich- not lose hundreds of millions of dollars.

b) pretty simple. the idea is that if you keep the dirty big mouthed lying whore on the hook with monthly payments she'll keep her mouth shut so long as she keeps getting little breadcrumbs of payments. you pay her everything up front all at once, what's to stop her from just violating the agreement and trying to extort/blackmail you for more a day later, a week later, a month later, etc., etc..

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32843 on: June 12, 2024, 11:45:37 AM »
I figure if 1 or 2 or 4 former officials close to a politician revert and now say he's wonky, well, it happens, OK, probably sour grapes.

When it's 24, I start to think they might know him better than I do, and have a point.

How many books do you think DJT ever read in his life?  Two?  Three?

 

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