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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32298 on: May 28, 2024, 02:54:51 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 28, 2024, 01:57:53 PM
AOC credits her Catholic faith for positions on health care, environment | National Catholic Reporter (ncronline.org)
I didn't know there was anything in the bible about robbing Peter to pay Paul. Has she read thou shall not steal?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32299 on: May 28, 2024, 02:55:15 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 28, 2024, 02:49:04 PM
I think this is an important point.  It is very much possible to be a pro-abortion hardliner while being personally religious and it is also very much possible to be an anti-abortion hardliner while being personally atheist. 
True.  Roughly 18 people in the country are this way.  Let's be sure not to exclude them.
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32300 on: May 28, 2024, 02:58:38 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on May 28, 2024, 02:54:51 PM
I didn't know there was anything in the bible about robbing Peter to pay Paul. Has she read thou shall not steal?
since it's quite obvious that Peter stole the money in the first place, it's OK
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32301 on: May 28, 2024, 03:00:18 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on May 28, 2024, 02:54:51 PM
I didn't know there was anything in the bible about robbing Peter to pay Paul. Has she read thou shall not steal?
I do tend to recall something about rendering unto Caesar those things which are Caesar's, i.e. that Christians shouldn't disobey the authorities that levy and collect taxes. 
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32302 on: May 28, 2024, 03:02:37 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on May 28, 2024, 01:22:29 PM
Except that we have something called the First Amendment, which states that government "can make no law respecting an Establishment of religion", which to me says that laws that are based solely upon codifying religious beliefs not okay.

Obviously there are areas of overlap; we make murder illegal for reasons that have nothing to do with the Christian fifth commandment. But the idea that you shouldn't be able to buy beer on Sunday because it's the Lord's Day is kinda clear violation of that idea.
I'm not in favor but I also don't think this is nearly as clear of a violation as you present.  

There are lots of restrictions on when and where you can buy alcohol and a lot of them are based on reducing alcohol abuse and alcoholism more than religion.  For example, in Ohio bars have to close at 2am.  It is common for states to have a state-mandated "last call".  AFAIK, no religion says you can drink but not after 2am on a Friday night/Saturday morning (Sat/Sun is different depending on the religion).  

My guess is that the intent of these laws is to reduce alcohol abuse/alcoholism by forcing people to stop drinking and go home at some point.  You could at least plausibly argue that forcing drunks to dry out one day a week is a non-religious societal good.  Now the choice of Sunday is suspect but one day a week is, IMHO, defensible and the specific day chosen is probably not infringing anyone's rights (if you accept that choosing a day is permissible).  

The history of this is that in England the State Church (Anglican, we call it Episcopal here) was tax-supported.  Similarly, in Ireland I know the schools were run by the Catholic Church with taxpayer support and it might still be that way.  In the scheme of rights, not being able to buy alcohol one day a week is a pretty minute infringement relative to having your assets confiscated (taxation) to support someone else's church.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32303 on: May 28, 2024, 03:03:03 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 28, 2024, 01:23:00 PM
To me, an atheist is convinced there is no God, or higher being.  I find that insupportable personally.  It's a belief in nothing, also based on no evidence.

An agnostic, to me, is someone who just isn't sure either way, which makes more sense to me.

Then of course there are folks who believe in some Higher Power but aren't sure what it comprises.  I can buy that I guess, it's a bit noncommital of course.
An atheist is someone not convinced that a god exists.  Agnosticism isn't separate from theism or atheism.  You can be an agnostic theist or agnostic atheist.  
I'm an ardent atheist (duh), but recognize that since proving a god isn't possible and disproving a god isn't possible, that I'm technically an agnostic atheist.  

But I'm also with Richard Dawkins, who had a 1-7 scale on belief in a god, with 1 being total certainty and 7 being total certainty of no god, that I'm a 6.9.

Few people are 1s or 7s because the evidence required for either of those doesn't exist.  But anyone rating from a 3-on is technically an atheist.  Just agnostic atheists.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32304 on: May 28, 2024, 03:04:12 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2024, 02:55:15 PM
True.  Roughly 18 people in the country are this way.  Let's be sure not to exclude them.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/10/20/8-key-findings-about-catholics-and-abortion/

56%.     
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32305 on: May 28, 2024, 03:05:40 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on May 28, 2024, 03:02:37 PM
I'm not in favor but I also don't think this is nearly as clear of a violation as you present. 

There are lots of restrictions on when and where you can buy alcohol and a lot of them are based on reducing alcohol abuse and alcoholism more than religion.  For example, in Ohio bars have to close at 2am.  It is common for states to have a state-mandated "last call".  AFAIK, no religion says you can drink but not after 2am on a Friday night/Saturday morning (Sat/Sun is different depending on the religion). 

My guess is that the intent of these laws is to reduce alcohol abuse/alcoholism by forcing people to stop drinking and go home at some point.  You could at least plausibly argue that forcing drunks to dry out one day a week is a non-religious societal good.  Now the choice of Sunday is suspect but one day a week is, IMHO, defensible and the specific day chosen is probably not infringing anyone's rights (if you accept that choosing a day is permissible). 

The history of this is that in England the State Church (Anglican, we call it Episcopal here) was tax-supported.  Similarly, in Ireland I know the schools were run by the Catholic Church with taxpayer support and it might still be that way.  In the scheme of rights, not being able to buy alcohol one day a week is a pretty minute infringement relative to having your assets confiscated (taxation) to support someone else's church. 
Are you a lawyer?  Sheeesh.
The number of days you can't buy booze isn't the thing, it's the fact that it's any number of days.  
And I guess, mathematically, you've got a 1-in-7 chance of not being full of horseshit about it being Sunday as not being a religious reason.
That's only 14%, friend.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32306 on: May 28, 2024, 03:06:36 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on May 28, 2024, 03:04:12 PM
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/10/20/8-key-findings-about-catholics-and-abortion/

56%.   
Do you really believe I was saying only 18 people in the US are catholic?  

I honestly can't with you.  
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32307 on: May 28, 2024, 03:07:12 PM »
Believers are the #1 exporter of:

linguistic gymnastics
and
word salad
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32308 on: May 28, 2024, 03:08:02 PM »
56% of Catholics is a considerable number of people.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32309 on: May 28, 2024, 03:11:16 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on May 28, 2024, 03:05:40 PM
Are you a lawyer?  Sheeesh.
The number of days you can't buy booze isn't the thing, it's the fact that it's any number of days. 
And I guess, mathematically, you've got a 1-in-7 chance of not being full of horseshit about it being Sunday as not being a religious reason.
That's only 14%, friend.
Car dealers are not allowed to be open on Sundays.

In Illinois.
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32310 on: May 28, 2024, 03:13:01 PM »
A considerable number of people bending the religion to fit in with the times, sure.  
Gotta stay relevant.  
Christians really half-ass things, don't they?  We'll have the first gay pope any day now (j/k, I'll bet you a dollar there's been many).  
At least muslims stick to their script.  No word salad with them.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #32311 on: May 28, 2024, 03:13:51 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on May 28, 2024, 03:11:16 PM
Car dealers are not allowed to be open on Sundays.

In Illinois.
Blue laws.  Religion.  Yes.  Thank you.

In Colorado, it's illegal to drive a black car on the first day of the week.  
We're a strange animal, with this invisible man in the sky nonsense.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier
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