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Topic: In other news ...

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13454 on: February 24, 2022, 10:20:00 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 09:39:38 AM
Sanctions will hurt your average Russian no doubt, but the elite?  Probably not significantly, at least not short term.
agree. really tough sanctions tend to squash the average/working class and drive them closer into the dictators hands because he can say- it's that foreign evil enemy that is doing this to you- I'm trying to protect you.

Agree, the elite of Russia won't feel it. They've got money hidden all over the world and many of them love to hang out/live in London, New York, Paris, Monaco, Miami - to make them feel it you'd have to seize all their high priced apartments, condos, and mansions in those cities and deport them back to Russia- that's if they haven't bought themselves citizenship in UK, US, France, Monaco already.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13455 on: February 24, 2022, 10:25:16 AM »
Quote from: Gigem on February 24, 2022, 07:23:00 AM
I wonder if many of our US military commanders are itching to get in this thing. A real war, defined fronts, tanks, real troops. No more jungle or desert fighting of guerillas and spooks.
of course they are lol. those guys are always itching for more war.
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13456 on: February 24, 2022, 10:26:15 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 09:27:45 AM
i sincerely hope the sanctions will have serious effects.  I hope that the US, and all other nations of the world, enact them to the fullest extent that we can.

Putin has been building up his reserves in other national currencies and crypto-currencies over the past several years in order to weather the coming storm.  But if the nations of the world can hit the oligarchs hard where it counts, that could fracture the Russian government.  That's probably the world's best and only hope at ending the current Russian aggression.
i hope so too, but sanctions often have the opposite effect we want- they tend to drive the public right into the dictators hands. 
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13457 on: February 24, 2022, 10:30:03 AM »
Quote from: Temp430 on February 24, 2022, 06:38:06 AM
Germany and Biden's sanctioning of the Nordstream 2 pipeline may have backfired. Russia's motive for building the Nordstream 2 pipeline was so they would not need the pipelines through Ukraine and pay them $2 billion per year.  IF Russia occupies all of Ukraine they do not need the Nordstream 2 pipeline.
The sanctions were a day late and a dollar short.  Time to sanction and block it was before it was built. That pipeline is built and was just awaiting German approval to go operational.

This part makes no sense. They built the pipeline to sell natural gas to their biggest customer- Germany and other Western European countries. If they occupy all of Ukraine they'll never get the approval to go operational and won't be able to sell gas to their biggest customers.
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rolltidefan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13458 on: February 24, 2022, 10:59:51 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:20:00 AM
agree. really tough sanctions tend to squash the average/working class and drive them closer into the dictators hands because he can say- it's that foreign evil enemy that is doing this to you- I'm trying to protect you.

Agree, the elite of Russia won't feel it. They've got money hidden all over the world and many of them love to hang out/live in London, New York, Paris, Monaco, Miami - to make them feel it you'd have to seize all their high priced apartments, condos, and mansions in those cities and deport them back to Russia- that's if they haven't bought themselves citizenship in UK, US, France, Monaco already.
the elites are feeling it from a dramatic drop in wealth standpoint. their stock market dropped 40% today so far. but that's not going to hit them the same way it'll hit normal people.

you're absolutely right about foreign asset seizure. one of the reasons putin moving his super yacht was such a big deal and bad signal last week. need to look at more than just real property, though. business assets, sports franchises, foreign stocks... there's several avenues they need to go down.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13459 on: February 24, 2022, 11:02:50 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on February 24, 2022, 10:25:16 AM
of course they are lol. those guys are always itching for more war.
I've known some Marine officers and none were remotely itching to go to war.  They hated it.  I've spoken briefly with a few generals but not enough to get their thoughts, I suspect they don't want war either.
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13460 on: February 24, 2022, 11:03:54 AM »
The Soviet Union elites made out pretty well with almost no trade with the West and almost no travel to the West.  Dachas and what not.
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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13461 on: February 24, 2022, 11:04:36 AM »
Quote from: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 10:59:51 AM
the elites are feeling it from a dramatic drop in wealth standpoint. their stock market dropped 40% today so far. but that's not going to hit them the same way it'll hit normal people.


Yeah and today's stock market close is the highest they're going to see for months or years.  It only goes down from here.


Quote
you're absolutely right about foreign asset seizure. one of the reasons putin moving his super yacht was such a big deal and bad signal last week. need to look at more than just real property, though. business assets, sports franchises, foreign stocks... there's several avenues they need to go down.


I know of a certain futbol club that is currently near the top of the EPL table that would be a ripe target.
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rolltidefan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13462 on: February 24, 2022, 11:05:49 AM »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10546799/More-150-senior-Russian-officials-sign-open-letter-condemning-Putins-invasion-Ukraine.html?ito=rss-flipboard

this feels significant. it's a good thing, but also feel it could go either way. probably not safe for those people who signed this, but maybe it'll embolden others to openly oppose. and hopefully some of them are ones to challenge putin's stranglehold on russian political power.
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rolltidefan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13463 on: February 24, 2022, 11:24:08 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 11:04:36 AM
Yeah and today's stock market close is the highest they're going to see for months or years.  It only goes down from here.



I know of a certain futbol club that is currently near the top of the EPL table that would be a ripe target.

chelsea has direct russian owner, ambromovich. arsenal (former) and everton (current) have both had part russian owners recently, though i don't know how much. bournemouth in the championship is also directly owned by russian. outside of england, as monaco, vitesse, and cercle brugge all have russian owners at least in part. other clubs, many in germany like shalke, have sponsorship deals with russian companies. shalke is gazprom, the russian state owned gas company.

brooklyn nets has ties to russian as well, though he sold controlling share couple years ago. no idea if he still owns any.

i'm sure there are others, those are just easy ones to google.
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rolltidefan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13464 on: February 24, 2022, 11:56:25 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 08:35:30 AM
Putin has been pretty clear that he wants to topple the existing government, and his military actions thus far are completely consistent with that.

He says he doesn't intend to occupy it.  But he's going to install a puppet government which will result in Ukraine effectively becoming a Russian satellite state once again, so if the Ukrainians truly want to govern themselves, it'll be a long, ongoing insurgency.




this seems to be pentagon's assessment as well.


https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1496888366448594944
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13465 on: February 24, 2022, 11:58:51 AM »
Quote from: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 11:05:49 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10546799/More-150-senior-Russian-officials-sign-open-letter-condemning-Putins-invasion-Ukraine.html?ito=rss-flipboard

this feels significant. it's a good thing, but also feel it could go either way. probably not safe for those people who signed this, but maybe it'll embolden others to openly oppose. and hopefully some of them are ones to challenge putin's stranglehold on russian political power.
that's a great sign. good for them for standing up for what's right and against a dictator.

I think it'll be pretty hard for Putin to murder 150 top ranking Russian officials without any kind of pushback. Cracking down on oligarchs he doesn't like or murdering one political opponent or dissident here or there is one thing- but taking out 150 top state officials at once- he probably won't be able to do that.

Hopefully his war has the opposite effect he intends and damages his power from within. Hopefully that 150 turns into 300 and on and on.
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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13466 on: February 24, 2022, 12:00:35 PM »
Quote from: rolltidefan on February 24, 2022, 11:56:25 AM
this seems to be pentagon's assessment as well.


https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1496888366448594944
Sigh.  Heady stuff.  A lot of innocent folks are going to die. 

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Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13467 on: February 24, 2022, 12:02:49 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 12:00:35 PM
Sigh.  Heady stuff.  A lot of innocent folks are going to die.


This
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