Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

can't help but think Ukraine giving up it's nukes in '94, Bush II withdrawing the US from the ABM treaty in 2002 and then pushing for Ukraine to join NATO in 2008 (Bush II had pushed for full-fledged membership but Germany & France blocked that for fear of agitating Russia- but they said y'all will be members one day- but not now- y'all have an open ended invite with no real date or real plan in sight) lead us on a collision course to this.

Man was it a bad idea for Ukraine to give up 100% of it's nukes and man was Bush II a horrible President.

So- you were pretty adamant this invasion wasn’t happening?  

I wonder if many of our US military commanders are itching to get in this thing. A real war, defined fronts, tanks, real troops. No more jungle or desert fighting of guerillas and spooks.

So- you were pretty adamant this invasion wasn’t happening? 

I didn't think we'd have a full scale operation, if that is what this is.

Maybe at best Putin wants to degrade Ukrainian defenses without an actual occupation, while he does occupy some breakaway areas as noted before.  (I don't mean that is good at all, but it could be better than a full occupation effort.)

All our sanctions and harsh language is not going to impact Putin that I can see.

Maybe at best Putin wants to degrade Ukrainian defenses without an actual occupation, while he does occupy some breakaway areas as noted before.  (I don't mean that is good at all, but it could be better than a full occupation effort.)

All our sanctions and harsh language is not going to impact Putin that I can see.

Putin has been pretty clear that he wants to topple the existing government, and his military actions thus far are completely consistent with that.

He says he doesn't intend to occupy it.  But he's going to install a puppet government which will result in Ukraine effectively becoming a Russian satellite state once again, so if the Ukrainians truly want to govern themselves, it'll be a long, ongoing insurgency.

On the other hand, if Putin stops short of a full invasion, I don't see he has accomplished much beyond some slices of Ukraine.

Sure, but how does he do that short of occupying Kiev (Kyiv)?  The current government will stick around unless physically exterminated or driven out of the country.

Yes, he has to take Kiev and either murder or force the current government into exile.  That's his plan.