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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1960 on: January 28, 2021, 01:37:39 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:02:02 PM
Actually I use TD Ameritrade as my broker and have seen no manipulation of any stock

could it be a simple situation where a hedge fund saw a stock way over valued and decided shorting was a good strategy

be careful here cause the market reacts to the public buying sentiment whatever that may be

unless Gamestop put out fraudulent information this may be entirely above board

can the little guy get hurt from investing in a stock over valued - yes

do big investors short over valued stocks causing them to decrease in price - yes

all legal
refusing to let people on their apps/platform buy it while still allowing and basically openly encouraging people to sell it is the definition of market manipulation.

The stock wasn't overvalued or undervalued- it just was what it was- and it wasn't just one Wall Street hedge fund- it was a cabal of them- and they didn't just short the company- they dangerously, excessively massively shorted the company and tried to run the share price into the dirt just to make a quick buck on their highly risky speculative bet. They lost.
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1961 on: January 28, 2021, 01:41:34 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 01:35:23 PM
Why Gamestop though?  Why was it being (allegedly?) shorted?  Random/strictly a numbers thing or something specific about the company itself (not numbers-related)?
Nothing alleged about it. It was being shorted. Excessively. It was being shorted more than any stock on the entire market by an order of magnitude. Nothing else was close. It was shorted at 140%. Basically means they borrowed every single share of GameStop stock in existence- 1.4 times. Hard to even wrap your head around that.

They were trying to drive it into the dirt so they could buy the shares back for pennies on the dollar- return the shares they borrowed and pocket huge sums of money. Reddit forum caught onto what they were doing and banded together to squeeze them. Sounding like other hedge funds piggybacked off the redditors and made those losses for the shorts even worse.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1962 on: January 28, 2021, 01:44:30 PM »
But why Gamestop?  
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1963 on: January 28, 2021, 01:46:46 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 01:44:30 PM
But why Gamestop? 
Because it was a failing company that was still publicly traded
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1964 on: January 28, 2021, 01:47:52 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2021, 01:44:30 PM
But why Gamestop? 
Because it had been struggling a bit. Although it had been struggling- it'd been undergoing restructuring and they brought on the founder of Chewy (the billionaire online pet retailer) to help them raise capital and restructure.

These hedge fund assholes think they pick whomever the hell they want whenever the hell they want and f$#k with them and drive them into the dirt. Simply put- they figured it was an easy target and quick way to make money. 
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longhorn320

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1965 on: January 28, 2021, 01:50:27 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:37:39 PM
refusing to let people on their apps/platform buy it while still allowing and basically openly encouraging people to sell it is the definition of market manipulation.

The stock wasn't overvalued or undervalued- it just was what it was- and it wasn't just one Wall Street hedge fund- it was a cabal of them- and they didn't just short the company- they dangerously, excessively massively shorted the company and tried to run the share price into the dirt just to make a quick buck on their highly risky speculative bet. They lost.
all stocks are overvalued or undervalued so Im not sure how you can say this

the act of shorting is not in itself manipulation any more then buying a stock is

and again a broker limiting activity on a highly volatile stock is very common

so far Ive not seen anything I would consider illegal like fraudulent company info etc
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longhorn320

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1966 on: January 28, 2021, 01:52:00 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:47:52 PM
Because it had been struggling a bit. Although it had been struggling- it'd been undergoing restructuring and they brought on the founder of Chewy (the billionaire online pet retailer) to help them raise capital and restructure.

These hedge fund assholes think they pick whomever the hell they want whenever the hell they want and f$#k with them and drive them into the dirt. Simply put- they figured it was an easy target and quick way to make money.
other then shorting the stock what else did they do that was manipulation

I really dont know 
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1967 on: January 28, 2021, 01:53:01 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 01:46:46 PM
Because it was a failing company that was still publicly traded
Not entirely true. It is NOT as simple or cut and dry as you are trying to make it sound. GameStop sales grew in 2020 and their losses in 2020 improved dramatically from 2019- more than halved- they had just brought on the founder of online pet retailer Chewy onto their board to help them restructure- they had just restructured debt and raised capital. This wasn't a business that wasn't just going to disappear overnight. It has a viable business and reason to exist. 

The shorts were literally just trying to f###k with it and drive it into the dirt to make money because they felt like it was an easy target. And they weren't just shorting it. They were EXCESSIVELY and dangerously shorting it. And that's why they just got their asses handed to them. Gotta love it.
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1968 on: January 28, 2021, 01:56:32 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 01:50:27 PM
all stocks are overvalued or undervalued so Im not sure how you can say this

the act of shorting is not in itself manipulation any more then buying a stock is

and again a broker limiting activity on a highly volatile stock is very common

so far Ive not seen anything I would consider illegal like fraudulent company info etc
stocks aren't ovevalued or undervalued- they are valued at whatever the market is willing to pay for them- that is their value- and it changes literally by the second.

When you short 140% of a company- and have minions go on tv on CNBC and trash the company 24/7 - yeah that's manipulation.

A retail broker like Robinhood/TD Ameritrade- banning people from buying a stock while allowing them to sell said stock- yeah- don't think that's happened. Like Ever.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1969 on: January 28, 2021, 01:57:47 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:53:01 PM
Not entirely true. It is NOT as simple or cut and dry as you are trying to make it sound. GameStop sales grew in 2020 and their losses in 2020 improved dramatically from 2019- more than halved- they had just brought on the founder of online pet retailer Chewy onto their board to help them restructure- they had just restructured debt and raised capital. This wasn't a business that wasn't just going to disappear overnight. It has a viable business and reason to exist.

The shorts were literally just trying to f###k with it and drive it into the dirt to make money because they felt like it was an easy target. And they weren't just shorting it. They were EXCESSIVELY and dangerously shorting it. And that's why they just got their asses handed to them. Gotta love it.
I mean that's why they shorted Gamestop - it wasn't like they hated videogames or something.
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longhorn320

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1970 on: January 28, 2021, 02:02:47 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 01:56:32 PM
stocks aren't ovevalued or undervalued- they are valued at whatever the market is willing to pay for them- that is their value- and it changes literally by the second.

When you short 140% of a company- and have minions go on tv on CNBC and trash the company 24/7 - yeah that's manipulation.

A retail broker like Robinhood/TD Ameritrade- banning people from buying a stock while allowing them to sell said stock- yeah- don't think that's happened. Like Ever.
Thats just not true
Stock are backed up by company assets and earning record and potential which has an implicit value attached to it
history of dividend payments scientific breakthroughs etc all help to determine value
what the market is willing to pay does not authenticate value of the company

thats why short selling exists 
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1971 on: January 28, 2021, 02:03:47 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on January 28, 2021, 01:57:47 PM
I mean that's why they shorted Gamestop - it wasn't like they hated videogames or something.
GameStop wasn't just going to go zero overnight. It was a struggling company going through restructuring- lots of companies struggle and go through restructuring and don't get shorted at 140%.

This wasn't some typical short bet like the shorts on Tesla where maybe 20-30% was shorted- which was also a struggling company going through restructuring by the way- they were shorting this thing at 140% trying to drive it out of existence. It was dangerous, risky, and excessive. They got caught with their pants down and took it up the ass because of it.
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Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1972 on: January 28, 2021, 02:06:52 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on January 28, 2021, 02:02:47 PM
Thats just not true
Stock are backed up by company assets and earning record and potential which has an implicit value attached to it
history of dividend payments scientific breakthroughs etc all help to determine value
what the market is willing to pay does not authenticate value of the company

thats why short selling exists
This is false. Stock market isn't tied to reality. At all.

Amazon has never once paid a dividend and they never will. And people still die to get their hands on it.

How many stocks trade at ridiculous x earnings? A LOT.
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longhorn320

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #1973 on: January 28, 2021, 02:13:13 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on January 28, 2021, 02:03:47 PM
GameStop wasn't just going to go zero overnight. It was a struggling company going through restructuring- lots of companies struggle and go through restructuring and don't get shorted at 140%.

This wasn't some typical short bet like the shorts on Tesla where maybe 20-30% was shorted- which was also a struggling company going through restructuring by the way- they were shorting this thing at 140% trying to drive it out of existence. It was dangerous, risky, and excessive. They got caught with their pants down and took it up the ass because of it.
Gamestop began the year at a $17 share price and right now is at $235 per share so I dont think their operators are crying in their beer
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