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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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GopherRock

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I see the deficit as inherently unfixable, I'd certainly like to try, but it seems futile to me.  The best we might be able to do is grow the debt slower than GDP growth for a while, if even that is feasible.

Raising tax rates doesn't seem to raise more revenue for obvious reasons.
And then Republicans vote for more deficit busting tax cuts for the rich. Tax cuts do not, and never have, pay for themselves. 

Any serious discussion about dealing with debt and deficits must include raising revenue. 

Mdot21

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this shit is unreal to me, you literally can't make this shit up. dude was senior leadership in ISIS & Al-Qaeda and had a $10 million bounty on his head up until 15 minutes ago. Lulz. What a fucking joke.


https://twitter.com/AFpost/status/1939839062778785932



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jgvol

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Any serious discussion about dealing with debt and deficits must include raising revenue. cutting spending.

GopherRock

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There's plenty of talk about cutting spending. There's no serious talk about raising revenue. 

You need both to seriously fight the deficit. 

jgvol

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There's plenty of talk about cutting spending. There's no serious talk about raising revenue.

You need both to seriously fight the deficit.


Tariffs.  106 billion so far. 

brisco_0317

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There's plenty of talk about cutting spending. There's no serious talk about raising revenue.

You need both to seriously fight the deficit.


The only way for the government to raise revenue is by increasing taxes.  

utee94

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And then Republicans vote for more deficit busting tax cuts for the rich. Tax cuts do not, and never have, pay for themselves.

Any serious discussion about dealing with debt and deficits must include raising revenue.
Bulljive.  The federal government takes enough.  Any serious discussion dealing with the debt and deficits must begin  with significant cuts to entitlements and end with significant improvements to government spending efficiency.

Gigem

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The only way for the government to raise revenue is by increasing taxes. 
What is this?  We have a new member?  
WELCOME !!


FearlessF

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The only way for the government to raise revenue is by increasing taxes. 
welcome aboard!

we need more walkons!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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And then Republicans vote for more deficit busting tax cuts for the rich. Tax cuts do not, and never have, pay for themselves.

Any serious discussion about dealing with debt and deficits must include raising revenue.
Cincy is a smart feller, as far as I know...............
he's pretty sure raising taxes does NOT raise revenue
if's that's so, it stands to reason that tax cuts will NOT decrease revenue
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

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And then Republicans vote for more deficit busting tax cuts for the rich. Tax cuts do not, and never have, pay for themselves.

Any serious discussion about dealing with debt and deficits must include raising revenue.
LoL. 

This is nothing but mindless repeating of DNC talking points. 

@Cincydawg has mentioned many times that Federal Revenues don't change all that much.  Here is a graph of Federal Revenues as a percentage of GDP from 1929-2024 from the St. Louis Fed

Note that, as Cincy has pointed out, they don't actually change all that much.  This is despite top marginal rates varying to as high as 90%.  Still, revenues haven't ever gotten over 20% of GDP. 

What HAS changed is expenditures.  Here, from the same source, is a graph of Federal Outlays as a percentage of GDP from 1929-2024

Note that expenditures soared to fight WWII and it was the spending cuts of the mid-to-late 90s that balanced the budget in the late 90s.  The recent spending spree is unprecedented in peacetime.  Highest federal outlays as a percentage of GDP since 1929:
  • 40.68%, 1944
  • 40.67%, 1945
  • 38.68%, 1943
  • 30.69%, 2020
  • 28.81%, 2021
  • 24.30%, 2009
  • 24.27%, 1946
  • 24.12%, 2022
  • 23.10%, 2011
  • 22.97%, 2010
  • 22.30%, 1982
  • 22.24%, 1983
  • 22.13%, 2023
  • 23.14%, 2024

The top-3 and #7 are WWII and the wind-down (1946).  #11 and 12 were recession reactions.  The early-80s recession dropped GDP which pushed expenditures up relative to GDP and there was a lot of spending due to the recession. 

That is six of the 14 years that Federal Outlays have exceeded 22% of GDP.  The other eight are:
  • 3 years from 2009-2011 in response to the credit crunch recession
  • The last five straight years (2020-2024). 

You might WANT to believe that it is a revenue problem but the facts are that it is a spending problem. 

The highest Federal Revenue as a percentage of GDP has ever been is a little under 20% in both 1945 (19.81%) and 2000 (19.76%).  Even if revenues were at that level we wouldn't have had a balanced budget since 2007. 


Expenditures from 2020-2024 are plainly unsustainable:
  • 30.69% in 2020
  • 28.81% in 2021
  • 24.12% in 2022
  • 22.13% in 2023
  • 23.14% in 2024
Even with all-time high revenues (19.81% in 1945) we'd still have run annual deficits of:
  • 10.88% of GDP in 2020
  • 9.00% of GDP in 2021
  • 4.31% of GDP in 2022
  • 2.32% of GDP in 2023
  • 3.32% of GDP in 2024


You can't fix a spending problem with tax increases. 

FearlessF

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The Trump administration is promising to release videos from its sex trafficking investigation of Jeffrey Epstein, but many are skeptical.
Attorney General Pam Bondi claims to be releasing 'tens of thousands' of videos of Jeffrey Epstein
____________________________

skeptical????
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Yeah no.  We're not going to attack Japan or China or the UK, who hold the largest individual shares of our foreign debt.  Any pressure and any resolutions would be economic, of course.

Yes, and realistically, relatively minor economic pressures.  But if they actually fucked us economically, painted us into a corner, we'd put an end to it by force.  

We don't need much of a push to play with our expensive, shiny toy....or have you not been awake the last 60 years?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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You might WANT to believe that it is a revenue problem but the facts are that it is a spending problem. 


Let's not pretend this is an either/or problem.  It's obviously both.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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