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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37660 on: October 04, 2024, 02:48:26 PM »
I get a news feed from the New York Times daily, this is part of it:
At the same time, Democrats in Congress were trying to pass an immigration bill to slow the number of arrivals and save Biden’s candidacy. Although Republicans had largely backed those objectives, they voted against the measure for political reasons, and it failed.
This statement infuriates me.  It is a typical media lie that only morons believe.  

The media narrative is that the Border bill was really tough but Trump killed it because he wanted to keep immigration as a campaign issue.  

Problems with this argument:
  • If the Democrats didn't want Trump to be able to use the immigration issue, they could have stopped it three and a half years ago.  
  • Trump isn't even in Congress, his party doesn't control the Senate, his party only has a miniscule majority in the HoR, and there are still anti-Trump Republicans in the HoR.  The Democrats needed less than half a dozen Republican HoR votes and exactly zero Republican Senate votes to pass their bill.  If their bill was an actual border security bill they'd have been able to pass it.  
  • The bill was in no way a tough border bill.  Mickey Kaus (a rare pro-American Democrat) described the bill thusly:  "The deal 'essentially authorizes the Biden administration to continue to catch and release people...it authorizes them to give work permits [to illegal migrants and] authorizes them to grant parole [legal status] to everybody that they're ablt to funnel to a port of entry."  Much like their inflation supercharging "Inflation Reduction Act" this was an anti-border security bill referred to as a border security bill to try to slide it past the voters.  The idea that Republicans in Congress killed the bill for Political reasons is a Democratic talking point and it is patently false.  Republicans killed it because it didn't secure the border.  An honest press would, at a minimum, say "R's say the bill doesn't secure the border because it continues catch and release, expands work permits, and other objections.  D's say the R's are only opposed for political reasons."  Then let the people decide but instead the lying press simply took the Democratic talking point and published it as fact.  


MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37661 on: October 04, 2024, 03:35:08 PM »
ALL pre-WWII immigrants had to sink or swim on their own.  The US didn't need to be concerned with welfare sponges coming here because there was no welfare to sponge off of. 

Then, Post WWII the Immigration Restrictionist policies of the 1920's remained in effect until the mid-1960's.  Moreover, even after that the "public charge" section of immigration law was still enforced and controlling the border was bi-partisan common-sense.  It wasn't until this century that enforcement of immigration law became anathema to the Democrats so your nonsense about us doing this for 100's of years is just that, nonsense.
There is no problem with those who come here thru their own efforts legally learning a skill and earning their way.But those looking for handouts and that includes Big Business and War merchants selling fear and making bank from willing gullible accomplices in congress. But this recent mass infusion is the left whoring themselves out and setting themselves up for votes to those who don't contribute burdening the rest that do. As the song goes - "and I'm frightened by those that don't see it"
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37662 on: October 04, 2024, 10:10:54 PM »
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to tell you how to run your business, this is an honest question:

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a truck and trailer for the rig?  If you did that you could use red diesel in the rig and you'd save the gas tax.  Even if the trailer was insanely expensive it would seem that the savings in gas tax would have to pay for it, no? 
Some people use trailer rigs with deck engines. I just like having the rig and truck as one unit.  Easier to spot, and more stable. 

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37663 on: October 04, 2024, 10:23:24 PM »

Quote
It wasn't until this century that enforcement of immigration law became anathema to the Democrats so your nonsense about us doing this for 100's of years is just that, nonsense.  
The Obama administration had perhaps the most active immigration enforcement of all presidents in the history of the nation. Certainly, deportations were way up, and the Biden administration is currently trying to match up to his policies on immigration, which involved heavy support to Mexico. In any event, the idea that Democrats have all been about high immigration is fantasy. It isn't even close to real.


Which is the point, really, To date, all of your points don't stand up to even the most rudimentary of analysis. Reality kills them dead right in the cradle. And of course they do. You are fighting against huge amounts of data that destroys your position, so the only retreat is to make stuff up. That's the anti-immigration argument, over and over over.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37664 on: October 04, 2024, 10:38:46 PM »
Just stop you're exeriencing hallucinations again .Today even the Lib Rag NY Times wrote "For much of the Biden administration's first three years in office, migration surged at the Mexican border." He practically welded the gates open. This President’s oath of office — in which Biden swore to “faithfully execute” his duties, which include enforcing US law — never meant a thing.
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37665 on: October 04, 2024, 10:54:50 PM »
Some people use trailer rigs with deck engines. I just like having the rig and truck as one unit.  Easier to spot, and more stable.
Little video I took. Just a 200’ shallow well.


https://twitter.com/txwellman72/status/1842397630195957797?s=61

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37666 on: October 05, 2024, 01:22:47 AM »
Some people use trailer rigs with deck engines. I just like having the rig and truck as one unit.  Easier to spot, and more stable.
Makes sense.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37667 on: October 05, 2024, 01:31:49 AM »
The Obama administration had perhaps the most active immigration enforcement of all presidents in the history of the nation. Certainly, deportations were way up, and the Biden administration is currently trying to match up to his policies on immigration, which involved heavy support to Mexico. In any event, the idea that Democrats have all been about high immigration is fantasy. It isn't even close to real.


Which is the point, really, To date, all of your points don't stand up to even the most rudimentary of analysis. Reality kills them dead right in the cradle. And of course they do. You are fighting against huge amounts of data that destroys your position, so the only retreat is to make stuff up. That's the anti-immigration argument, over and over over.
Your ignorance is exceeded only by your dishonesty.

You lied AGAIN, by inferring that I have said that all immigration for all time is bad. I've said no such thing.

I pointed out the problem of open borders and a welfare state and you . . . Failed to address that point at all.

Then you have the audacity to accuse me of making things up?

And you claim to have refuted every point I've made. You literally haven't even refuted a single point I've made while I've provided data and directly answered everything you've said.

Let's start with something that might be simple enough for you to understand:

Will you admit that admitting criminals and welfare recipients is fiscally disadvantageous? Is that within your comprehension?

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37668 on: October 05, 2024, 01:49:14 AM »
Earlier in this thread @MaximumSam called my reference to SS and Medicare "silly". That comment demonstrates your fiscal ignorance. Some of us on here who are fiscally literate had a long discussion about the federal debt at this link.

Ignoring immigration, SS and Medicare are driving our country off a fiscal cliff.

My ability to comprehend this problem is the biggest reason for my advocacy for severe restrictions on immigration.

As I've explained repeatedly (and you've never even addressed let alone refuted), SS and Medicare for the government are already hemorrhaging money at an unsustainable rate.

Since we know that SS and Medicare are losing money, we can conclude that the average participant is a net-loss for the government. Do you understand this?

Since we know that the average participant in SS and Medicare is a net loss for the government, we can conclude that adding any additional participants at or below average* makes the underlying problem worse. Do you comprehend this?

I've mentioned these facts repeatedly and you've failed to even so much as address them so I assume that either:

  • They are simply beyond your comprehension, or
  • You realize that this is true but figure you can kick the can down the road.
Prove me wrong. Actually answer.

*In reality the SS and Medicare systems are so hopelessly underwater that even participants well above average are net losers for the government but that is overcomplicating things and I don't need that to win this debate. Your position is sufficiently weak that I only need part of mine.

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37669 on: October 05, 2024, 07:42:10 AM »

Quote
Will you admit that admitting criminals and welfare recipients is fiscally disadvantageous? Is that within your comprehension?
I'm not really pro-admitting criminals and welfare recipients, but immigrants are less likely to be criminals than people already here, and they don't really cost much in welfare, nor do they draw much in social security or medicare.


And again, my main point is that they increase economic productivity, which is the main point, and really the main goal. You can call me stupid all you like, but I'm just pointing out reality. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37670 on: October 05, 2024, 08:31:30 AM »
Do they increase economic activity per capita?  Is that because of largess (spending) by the Federal government?

Is there some believable study on these points?

(I'm in favor of a major update/alteration in our immigration laws and methods of enforcement.  I don't think it really is possible today.)

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37671 on: October 05, 2024, 08:48:47 AM »
Do they increase economic activity per capita?  Is that because of largess (spending) by the Federal government?

Is there some believable study on these points?

(I'm in favor of a major update/alteration in our immigration laws and methods of enforcement.  I don't think it really is possible today.)
If they are civil engineers or land surveyors, I say "Come on in!"
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37672 on: October 05, 2024, 09:01:55 AM »
Do they increase economic activity per capita?  Is that because of largess (spending) by the Federal government?

Is there some believable study on these points?

(I'm in favor of a major update/alteration in our immigration laws and methods of enforcement.  I don't think it really is possible today.)
https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #37673 on: October 05, 2024, 09:11:30 AM »
That study is about "immigration", the topic under discussion here is "illegal" immigration.  The two things are quite distinct.

It also notes things like the below, which I think logically is much more a factor for "illegals" (undocumenteds, whatever) than legal immigrants.


However, immigrants often impose a heavier tax burden on natives at the state and local level. Immigrants — particularly those with low levels of education and income — generally have larger families and more children using public K-12 education, the largest component of state and local budgets.

 

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