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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35420 on: August 01, 2024, 10:00:28 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on August 01, 2024, 09:42:40 AM
this was my only experience at Wabo
We'll probably go back again this January.

Depends how I feel. I have "issues" at the present.
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35421 on: August 01, 2024, 10:05:11 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on August 01, 2024, 09:56:43 AM
You did not. You gave stats showing an increase in homicides then casually decided the reason was BLM and "depolicing." Depolicing is almost certainly not the reason, giving depolicing was fairly limited and not at all uniform. Further, the actual crime rate did not rise with the homicide rate, drawing a lot of problems with the conclusion that the homicides were due to "depolicing." Finally, your own source cited COVID as a major reason for depolicing, but that doesn't play well with Republican talking points despite being undoubtedly true.
LoL.
First, my "own source" was the NYT. I cited them specifically because they are a left wing source. In my first post on the subject I literally called it an "admission against interest". As a lawyer you should be familiar with that concept. 

Second, the COVID did NOT cause a similar increase in traffic fatalities nor homicides in other countries. The left-wing NYT wants to blame it on COVID but that fails. 

Depolicing led to riskier behavior which led to increased deaths. The left has blood on their hands.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35422 on: August 01, 2024, 10:13:48 AM »

Quote
Depolicing led to riskier behavior which led to increased deaths. The left has blood on their hands.
Also, guns proliferation increase in the United States, and the percentage of homicides using firearms increased. The right has blood on its hands!!!!!!!


Come on man, this is silly.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35423 on: August 01, 2024, 10:15:47 AM »
A thing that happened around here, for real, is the police did a "blue out" after the riots.  They basically parked their cruisers and would not respond to calls.

We didn't have much "defund the police" around here, but I distinctly recall a LOT of major politicians calling for that, which was idiotic at the time, I thought.  And when asked, most would say "It means just that, shut them down."  

Obviously, once criminals noted the police had "gone on strike",  they felt more uninhibited to commit crimes, raid stores, attack their enemies, sell drugs more openly, etc., and of course speed on the highways and byways.  We had a noticable uptick here for a few weeks in those Dodge cars going by at 70+ mph in a 35 mph zone.

Fortunately, it back to normal now.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35424 on: August 01, 2024, 10:16:13 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on August 01, 2024, 10:13:48 AM
Also, guns proliferation increase in the United States, and the percentage of homicides using firearms increased. The right has blood on its hands!!!!!!!
This is factually untrue. 

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35425 on: August 01, 2024, 10:19:30 AM »
There was a homicide bump around COVID/BLM stuff.  Not all homicides are murders of course.

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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35426 on: August 01, 2024, 10:19:51 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 01, 2024, 10:16:13 AM
This is factually untrue.


Gun violence in the United States has been declining in 2024, with gun homicides down 13.1% as of April 30, 2024 compared to the same time in 2023. However, gun sales reached record levels in 2019 and 2020, and in 2021, more people died from gun incidents than in any previous year.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35427 on: August 01, 2024, 10:21:24 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on August 01, 2024, 10:13:48 AM
Also, guns proliferation increase in the United States, and the percentage of homicides using firearms increased. The right has blood on its hands!!!!!!!

Come on man, this is silly.
This is flat wrong. There is no correlation between gun density and homicides. Furthermore, guns are clearly NOT more available today than they were in the 60's when "J Hidell" mail ordered a sniper rifle and had it sent to a PO Box.

My argument has facts to back it up but yours, as you said, is silly.

The left has blood on their hands.
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35428 on: August 01, 2024, 10:21:29 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 01, 2024, 10:00:28 AM
We'll probably go back again this January.

Depends how I feel. I have "issues" at the present.
I probably won't.
I prefer the resort areas further south, if I travel to Mexico at all.

If someone, friends or daughters, were going to Cabo and wanted me to join them, I might
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"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35429 on: August 01, 2024, 10:21:53 AM »
Your post stated homicides, not just deaths.  Most gun deaths are by suicide.

And I posted a much longer period of time showing an inverse trend between gun ownership and homicides.  Stating what happened over 2-3 unusual years is hardly probative.  
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35430 on: August 01, 2024, 10:25:08 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 01, 2024, 10:21:53 AM
Your post stated homicides, not just deaths.  Most gun deaths are by suicide.

And I posted a much longer period of time showing an inverse trend between gun ownership and homicides.  Stating what happened over 2-3 unusual years is hardly probative. 
Additionally, increased gun ownership is rather obviously an effect rather than a cause. When there is a depolicing push people are forced to arrange their own security so they buy guns. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35431 on: August 01, 2024, 10:30:04 AM »
I think there were a number of factors leading to increase firearms ownership, one was fear of crime.  Another was fear of pending regulations and limitations.  Another was simply fascination with them.  Another piece to this is that the percentage of HHS owning guns has been dropping rather steadily.

And of course there were a number of factors leading to the drop in the crime rate since ca. 1992 as well, and the upsurge in crime around COVID, though the upsurge never got near 1992.

Folks will often point to "gun deaths" without separating out suicides, which are most of them.  They point to "assault rifles" without noting how few homicides are committed with rifles of any variety.  
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35432 on: August 01, 2024, 10:30:42 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on August 01, 2024, 10:21:24 AM
This is flat wrong. There is no correlation between gun density and homicides. Furthermore, guns are clearly NOT more available today than they were in the 60's when "J Hidell" mail ordered a sniper rifle and had it sent to a PO Box.

My argument has facts to back it up but yours, as you said, is silly.

The left has blood on their hands.
It is in fact not wrong. It is as well supported as your theory. You must accept your responsibility for supporting widespread gun proliferation and the increase in gun deaths that we in fact saw. Accept it or make excuses.
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #35433 on: August 01, 2024, 10:31:24 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 01, 2024, 10:21:53 AM
Your post stated homicides, not just deaths.  Most gun deaths are by suicide.

And I posted a much longer period of time showing an inverse trend between gun ownership and homicides.  Stating what happened over 2-3 unusual years is hardly probative. 
Yes. I meant homicides. The percentage of homicides by gun rose.
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