header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 2497 2498 [2499] 2500 2501 ... 3194   Go Down
Author

Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

 (Read 3067910 times)

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83300
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34972 on: July 24, 2024, 10:04:55 AM »
I don't think it at all obvious that Biden made that call, or anything associated with it.  Just my opinion.
Logged

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 22337
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34973 on: July 24, 2024, 10:05:11 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on July 24, 2024, 09:56:06 AM
so, there's a plan to pull out

and then there's the plan and execution of how you do it w/o a shitshow

it was Biden's shitshow

he may have been boxed into leaving

it was the way he did it that was horrible
If he was already boxed into leaving by Trump's decision, then how was it Biden's decision to leave?
Logged

MaximumSam

  • Guest
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34974 on: July 24, 2024, 10:08:40 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on July 24, 2024, 10:05:11 AM
If he was already boxed into leaving by Trump's decision, then how was it Biden's decision to leave?
Because he was the president and had to make the decision to actually do it. He could have flamboozled his way out of it, like Trump did with the Iran deal, but he was clear at the time that he felt an agreement with the United States meant something and he needed to follow it, and that is what he did. I've seen no evidence that it wasn't his decision, and much to the contrary, so I'm not going to go with "vibes" on it.
Logged

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31292
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34975 on: July 24, 2024, 10:10:27 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on July 24, 2024, 10:05:11 AM
If he was already boxed into leaving by Trump's decision, then how was it Biden's decision to leave?
It pretty much wasn't, but the US did have the option to pull out of that agreement. So, there's that point.

I'm glad we pulled out, of course, but it sucks for guys like my son who now wonders why the F he was there, risking his life, given how quickly the US puppet government collapsed.

As for how the withdrawal was handled, that is a completely different story. Let's just say, it was "not good".
Logged
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 22337
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34976 on: July 24, 2024, 10:12:58 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2024, 10:10:27 AM
It pretty much wasn't, but the US did have the option to pull out of that agreement. So, there's that point.

I'm glad we pulled out, of course, but it sucks for guys like my son who now wonders why the F he was there, risking his life, given how quickly the US puppet government collapsed.

As for how the withdrawal was handled, that is a completely different story. Let's just say, it was "not good".
Just makes me happy your son got out with his life.  We never should have been there in the first place.

I'm definitely separating the execution of the plan to evacuate, from the decision to evacuate.
Logged

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83300
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34977 on: July 24, 2024, 10:14:37 AM »
I'll go with my experience in such things, "executives" rarely make decisions.  They got where they got by avoiding them, for the most part.  Their "staff" makes the decision for them, nearly every time.

If it goes wrong, they blame someone else, their predecessor, their advisers, the head of the Secret Service, the Joint Chiefs, someone.  Finger pointing.

But MAYBE Biden woke up one morning and told everyone to get us out of Afg.

Giving up Wagram strikes me as a critically terrible choice.
Logged

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83300
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34978 on: July 24, 2024, 10:15:22 AM »
I'm coming up on "that date" for me personally where I wonder how in the world such things happen.

Logged

MaximumSam

  • Guest
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34979 on: July 24, 2024, 10:20:19 AM »
I thought it was a bad deal to blame the decision to leave, which was obviously Biden's, with the "way it went" which was obviously on the military. It's not like Biden was designing evacuation procedures.
Logged

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 22337
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34980 on: July 24, 2024, 10:20:23 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 24, 2024, 10:15:22 AM
I'm coming up on "that date" for me personally where I wonder how in the world such things happen.


As always, condolences for you and your family.  I can't even imagine. 
Logged

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 14603
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34981 on: July 24, 2024, 10:20:43 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on July 24, 2024, 09:56:06 AM
so, there's a plan to pull out

and then there's the plan and execution of how you do it w/o a shitshow

it was Biden's shitshow

he may have been boxed into leaving

it was the way he did it that was horrible
Here is where you get into arguing a counterfactual. Trump says "well Biden did it badly;* I would have done it better!" 

The problem is that statement is not falsifiable. He can say it, and his supporters can believe it, but absolutely nobody can prove it. 

I can make the same counterfactual. If Trump was President, I can say he'd probably get on the phone with the Taliban and say he'd negotiate a safer withdrawal, as long as the Taliban announced an investigation into Hunter Biden's laptop. 

(* Trump wouldn't say that; he doesn't know what a semicolon is or how to use one.)
Logged

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 22337
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34982 on: July 24, 2024, 10:22:02 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 24, 2024, 10:20:43 AM
Here is where you get into arguing a counterfactual. Trump says "well Biden did it badly;* I would have done it better!"

The problem is that statement is not falsifiable. He can say it, and his supporters can believe it, but absolutely nobody can prove it.

I can make the same counterfactual. If Trump was President, I can say he'd probably get on the phone with the Taliban and say he'd negotiate a safer withdrawal, as long as the Taliban announced an investigation into Hunter Biden's laptop.

(* Trump wouldn't say that; he doesn't know what a semicolon is or how to use one.)
Ha!

Pretty sure that when it comes to punctuation, he's only familiar with the exclamation point.
Logged

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31292
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34983 on: July 24, 2024, 10:26:31 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 24, 2024, 10:15:22 AM
I'm coming up on "that date" for me personally where I wonder how in the world such things happen.


Still hard to believe. 19 years now.

Yet another war "we" should not have been involved in.
Logged
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31292
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34984 on: July 24, 2024, 10:27:28 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on July 24, 2024, 10:20:19 AM
I thought it was a bad deal to blame the decision to leave, which was obviously Biden's, with the "way it went" which was obviously on the military. It's not like Biden was designing evacuation procedures.
I agree. But no heads were rolled, and heads should have rolled.
Logged
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83300
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #34985 on: July 24, 2024, 10:28:56 AM »
Well, let's stipulate Biden decided on his own (mostly) with advice to exit Afghanistan, but he didn't plan the details.  Did he make any other decisions of note?  I don't mean to give a speech or sign something Congress passed like a budget bill, but a "real decision" that shifted things from A to B, or Z.

I know he likes to point to "bipartisan legislation", which is somewhat accurate, but did he play a role in drafting any of it?  He may have pushed for the last COVID recovery bill, but Congress was all about that anyway (as was Trump).

It reminds me of Obamacare, when Obama was off doing public optic events while the Senate, mostly, figured out what was to pass and Lieberman squelched the public option.  That was a Big Fing Deal, no PO.  That would have been a disaster in my view.

And Obamacare cost me quite a bit of money, I could no longer use a high deductible plan.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 2497 2498 [2499] 2500 2501 ... 3194   Go Up
« previous next »
 
Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.
USN Coat of Arms Carving/Clock

Molon Labe Medallion