In other news (apolitical thread)...

[OrangeAfroMan]

yes, a single personal experience actually happened it's real >>>>>
that's way better than meta data that's pulled from somewhere down there to support someone's argument - it's not real

Your brain is broken.

[FearlessF]

meta data

[OrangeAfroMan]

Where's your data, rather than just assertions?

How about this?

Here's Phoenix:




And the amount of money needed to buy a $200K house:




And here's from Zillow, over 1,000 housing units for sale that are 2bd/2ba or larger, in Phoenix:



So tell me again that "entry level" doesn't exist.

That's great.

1/3 of adults in Arizona have a college degree.  You guys can keep pretending like this isn't a problem, but it's just a pleasant fiction.

And @847badgerfan Charlotte has 71 cheap homes?  Cool.  23,000 people moved there last year.  

The willful ignorance of you guys on this topic is so severe that I don't see the point in discussing it.  I mean fucking hell.  It's as if I'm pretending there's a problem.  What a joke.  

Every problem involving money isn't some invented nonsense, sorry.  I have no fucking clue why most of you act that way, but that's on you.  Just keep your head in the sand and pretend your posts negate the totality of the reality.

Ugh.

[OrangeAfroMan]

meta data

Yes.
Google terms like 'sample size' or 'statistical significance' or something like that.  Or just don't be a dolt.  

[FearlessF]

But it is.  Entry-level almost doesn't exist anymore. 

don't be a dolt

[Cincydawg]

I'm pretty sure everyone here understands there is a serious problem, some have noted information that suggests part of the problem may not simply be home prices outrunning salaries.  It may be more complex than one single variable, as home prices alone show some for sales under $200 K.

So, folks discuss other factors which may be influential, rather than just clinging to one simple notion in absence of anything else.

It's a lot easier in life to chalk up something to one simple notion, but it often is incorrect.

[bayareabadger]

They vary. But yeah, $200K/year isn't terrible. Some include everything, while others (like the $2K ones) do not.

That one in Clearwater for $750/month includes tennis, pickleball, the pool, shuffleboard (I know...), etc., plus all utilities except electric.

For what it’s worth, that is also a senior community.

I admit that I live in an apartment, but what do all those utilities run for a house? I think I pay like maybe $25 a month for that right now, but I live in an apartment.

[bayareabadger]

https://twitter.com/thechiefnerd/status/1951980008932606251?s=46

That feels like kind of bad statistics. (I know you didn’t make it)

You’re taking two things that are probably gone down and combining them. But by doing so you make it hard to get something useful out of it.

if anyone asks the question of causes, the first thing one would need to do is ask what percentage of 30-year-olds are married now compared to back then. From that then you can pivot to interesting questions about how many if you were single 30 year olds own property and how many fewer married 30-year-olds own property. And if one of those last numbers holds steady, then you start cooking

[Cincydawg]

I admit that I live in an apartment, but what do all those utilities run for a house? I think I pay like maybe $25 a month for that right now, but I live in an apartment.

It'll vary of course by location.  I average $150/month for utilities here, which is only electric for us.  Water is in the HOA.  In Cincy with a single family home, we probably were $400-500, gas/electric/water.

[bayareabadger]

It'll vary of course by location.  I average $150/month for utilities here, which is only electric for us.  Water is in the HOA.  In Cincy with a single family home, we probably were $400-500, gas/electric/water.

Oh, I meant the non-electric. The stuff that HOA paid for. 

Blake, it’s nice to see you pay for water, sewer and trash, but if that doesn’t cost all that much it’s a little negligible.

[jgvol]

I think part of the issue is younger folks are generally undisciplined compared to when I was young. 

Driving a beater is not an option for them.  

And they have to have the latest tech — ipads, airpods, newest iPhones, subscriptions to Apple Music, Spotify, TV streaming, wi-fi, etc.  All that adds up quick. 

All things I didn’t have to worry with.  

[Cincydawg]

Real estate isn’t unaffordable. It’s just unaffordable for people who don’t own any.
This chart should be a wake-up call—not just for first-time buyers, but for investors paying attention. In 2025, the median home in the U.S. now requires a salary of $108,486 to afford. In cities like San Jose and San Francisco? $300K+ annual income just to get in the door.
Homeownership is turning into a luxury class asset. And for investors, that’s the signal:
- Rents will continue rising where ownership is out of reach.
- The lock-in effect (low mortgage rate holders not selling) is restricting supply.
- Cities with the biggest affordability gaps will see institutional capital lean heavier into SFR (single-family rentals).
The projections in the real estate market are not good, and right now builders are sitting on 9 months of inventory. The correction in the market place might start as early as 4th quarter 2025, especially since the Fed did not lower rates.

[Cincydawg]

I'd note the Fed funds rates don't necessarily impact long term interest rates.  They can track parallel without being cause and effect.

[847badgerfan]

Oh, I meant the non-electric. The stuff that HOA paid for.

Blake, it’s nice to see you pay for water, sewer and trash, but if that doesn’t cost all that much it’s a little negligible.

Water/sewer here run about $150/month - 2 people.

Taking care of a community pool is very expensive. Our master HOA spends about $75K/year on the main one.