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Topic: In other news (apolitical thread)...

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1540 on: June 04, 2025, 01:11:54 PM »
I'd call vying for more and more bitterness is a fad.  Maybe it sticks for a while, maybe a few folks pretend to like it.  To me, it's a fad even if it persists for years.

I enjoy balanced IPAs just fine, but not the silly ones.  I enjoy a decent zinfandel, but not the silly ones.  I view the folks who try and find more and more bitter IPAs as "fadish", braggarts, just folks who claim to like hotter and hotter peppers, it's to them some mark of, well, faddishness, uniqueness, they claim to "LIKE" super hot peppers when in reality they don't, except they think it makes them look special.

Fad.
Why can't it be both a preference and a fad? It's a preference for some, that can also be a temporary fad for others? 

I, for one, have pretty much ALWAYS preferred bitter foods and eschewed sweet.

  • When I was a kid, my mom would make steamed Brussels sprouts and steamed broccoli--a cooking method that does next to nothing to reduce the bitterness. And I was the weird kid who loved it, while most other people who grew up eating them prepared that way thought they absolutely hated them until they ate them fried or roasted, which tends to dampen down the bitterness and cause the sugars to caramelize and sweeten. 
  • From childhood, my favorite Hershey's bar was Special Dark. I would turn down a milk chocolate bar. Today, I'll eat the darkest chocolate I can find, and still won't touch milk chocolate.  
  • My family used to make anise cookies for Christmas, and my preferred method to eat them was dipping them in black coffee--we're talking low single digit age to tween years old. 
  • I drink coffee black and always have.
  • I generally don't eat dessert. I have a few soft spots--anything with LOTS of chocolate, and tiramisu. For the most part, I'll leave anything else on the table. 
  • This one's weird, but there have been a few times where I've eaten an orange--including the peel. Which is tremendously bitter. 


I don't think "more and more bitterness" was a common fad when I was a kid--but I preferred bitter. 

So... Do I like IPAs because it's a fad, or do I like IPAs because they line up with the taste preferences I already had? 

---------------

FWIW, I also like spicy food. And my heat tolerance is higher than most. However, I'm not one that's going out trying to find ever-more-spicy things either--it's not for a fad. I like spicy, but within my tolerance. And BTW--liking spicy food also goes back to my childhood before being a "pepper head" was a fad. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1541 on: June 04, 2025, 01:24:07 PM »
I think for MOST it's just a fad, something folks can brag about to make them seem singular.  I'm sure some folks actually like zinfandel with 18% alcohol.  These things get popular for a while and then drop back to background because MOST folks don't really like the overdone out of balance stuff.

The the fad folks migrate to whatever is the latest, flavored beer or whatever.  I'm sure we've all seen folks who try and latch onto whatever is the "latest greatest" whether they like the stuff or not.  Then they migrate to something else in a year or so.

I'm recently seeing ice cream varieties for example that are WEIRD, garlic flavored and worse.  Maybe someone really like the stuff, but most don't, and some pretend to.

There still is one chardonnay brand called "Butter".  It caters to folks conditioned to think chard should taste like that.  Fine with me.  Make whatever sells.

But I think a LOT of folks just follow fads.  Their "tastes" just shift willy nilly without being genuine.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1542 on: June 04, 2025, 01:26:36 PM »
It's an interesting question.  And I'll comment that I definitely don't think IPAs are a fad.


Sticking specifically to the area of packaged alcoholic beverages though, are we REALLY seeing a move toward bitter?  The IPA certainly seems to have a stronghold within the American craft beer industry, and although I'm seeing a little bit of a move toward more European styles, compared to 10-20 years ago, IPA still dominates this segment.

But craft beer isn't the fastest growing segment within this market.  White Claw style seltzers and ciders plus other spirit-based "ready to drink" beverages, are currently the big movers and shakers.  And although some of these have "lemon" or "lime" flavors, I don't consider any of them to be particularly "bitter."  Not in the way that American IPAs are.  Most of them range from neutral to very, very sweet.

And then of course the dominant packaged alcoholic beverages are still the macro-beers, none of which would be considered "bitter" for the purposes of this discussion, either.

So is "bitter" actually growing in this market?  Or is it just a perception due to the ubiquitous nature of IPAs at the types of places you and I like to go drink?

And there's another possible take... Maybe the percentage of people who like bitter is unchanged, but that the market has changed to better cater to us? 

I.e. let's say that 95% of the population are the "normies" who like sweet stuff. And that 5% are the defectives like me who prefer bitter. 

Well, if you have a small regional brand, are you going to craft out a product line to cater to that 5%? Especially if you're trying to place it on supermarket shelves where they don't want to stock it for 5% of their customers, many of whom may not even know that the product exists? Especially in a pre-internet age when you don't even really realize that 5% market exists, maybe THEY don't realize they exist b/c nobody's ever catered to them as only 5%, and they don't even know how or where to seek your products out? 

Fast forward to increasing conglomeration of brands. 5% of 340M people is a lot more than 5% of 20M. That 5% has now had enough products in front of them that are bitter that they know who they are, and they what they're looking for and how to find it. That 5% will complain to the supermarket if they can't find the product they want on the shelf--or more accurately will seek it out elsewhere and the supermarkets will recognize that they need to stock those products. 

Maybe it's just that defectives like me are part of the "long tail" of the distribution. Markets 20, 30, 40 years ago weren't well set up to serve "long tail" customers, but that's changed. Not because there are more of us defectives, but because our preferences were simply underserved before, and now we're being adequately served...

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1543 on: June 04, 2025, 01:29:32 PM »
I'm not at all saying IPAs are a fad, just the ridiculously over hopped out of balance IPAs.  IPAs are fine, I like'em.

And I'm sure a FEW folks like the crazy over hopped out of balanced swills out there.  

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1544 on: June 04, 2025, 01:34:45 PM »
When I was doing wine classes, folks would ask me what kinds of wine I like.  My answer is "A wine you can't readily characterize because it is so balanced."  To me, that's a great wine, presuming it tastes good.  They are tough to find.  If someone starts detecting "a distinct cherry finish" or "nice wood" or "buttery smoothness", my guess is the wine is out of balance, and probably had something done to it to make it so.

The times I've had really really good wine I've thought "Wow, I have no idea how to describe this, it's not too much of anything, except really good.".

I can say the flavor profile is complex and it has a lasting finish, but nothing about cherries or wood or butter or rasberries or a soupcon of asparagus.  

Give me a balanced IPA and I'm fine.

utee94

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1545 on: June 04, 2025, 01:37:46 PM »
IPAs have been around for centuries.  They were intentionally over-hopped as a preservative, for the long journey from Britain to India, starting in the late 1700s.  Hence their name "India Pale Ale." This journey could take up to 6 months and by the time the beer reached India, the flavor profile had mellowed and settled down to something that actually tasted good.

It wasn't until crazy Americans started trying to drink them fresh instead of aged in the 1980s/90s, that the race to out-bitter one another began.  As is often the case, we can blame California for the insanity.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1546 on: June 04, 2025, 02:05:49 PM »
A bit back I got a "United" credit card from Chase because it came with some benefits like free luggage, and we had been booked on a United flight.  So, I get a bill for $95, annual fee, and call up a month ago and say "Cancel my card", person says they will do it.  I get a warning that my payment is due a week ago, I call AGAIN, going through their miserable menu.  I finally get a real person and explain, and he says they have a record of my call back in May but the card was not cancelled.

I've had some very negative interactions with Chase over the years.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1547 on: June 04, 2025, 02:38:44 PM »
Today I learned....

How Uncultured I am. 

But, I really already knew this.  I just drink american macro-swill beer. 
I'm not nearly as beer-savvy as @betarhoalphadelta and unlike @Cincydawg my only knowledge of wine relates to Mad Dog and Boone's Farm so I'm with ya!

There is a local chain here that has an annual "World Tour of Beers".  You buy 100 beers in a year and get a free jacket.  My dad used to call mine my $500 jacket, LoL.  Anyway, back when I did the tour I was single and childless and my dad, brother, and I used to get together for dinner every Tuesday at this place so I figured I was going to buy two beers a week and 2*52=104 so I was already buying the beers anyway, why not get a free jacket out of it.  

I'm actually really glad I did it.  The tour is set up not as just any 100 beers, Ie, you can't buy 100 Bud Lights.  It is 100 different beers so I tried a lot of stuff that I otherwise might never have tried from IPA's to Wheat Beers to Fruit beers to Chocolate Stouts, a wide variety.  I found some things I liked and some I'll never order again.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1548 on: June 04, 2025, 02:43:31 PM »
It's an interesting question.  And I'll comment that I definitely don't think IPAs are a fad.

Sticking specifically to the area of packaged alcoholic beverages though, are we REALLY seeing a move toward bitter?  The IPA certainly seems to have a stronghold within the American craft beer industry, and although I'm seeing a little bit of a move toward more European styles, compared to 10-20 years ago, IPA still dominates this segment.

But craft beer isn't the fastest growing segment within this market.  White Claw style seltzers and ciders plus other spirit-based "ready to drink" beverages, are currently the big movers and shakers.  And although some of these have "lemon" or "lime" flavors, I don't consider any of them to be particularly "bitter."  Not in the way that American IPAs are.  Most of them range from neutral to very, very sweet.

And then of course the dominant packaged alcoholic beverages are still the macro-beers, none of which would be considered "bitter" for the purposes of this discussion, either.

So is "bitter" actually growing in this market?  Or is it just a perception due to the ubiquitous nature of IPAs at the types of places you and I like to go drink?
In re ciders:
My wife and I went to New Zealand and when I was there they offered alcoholic ciders of many varieties and nearly every restaurant so I tried a few and found that I really liked their Pineapple Cider.  When we got home it really took some searching to find one but eventually I did.  Then, shortly thereafter the "cider craze" hit and all of a sudden every store was offering Reds and CiderBoys and you could find Ciders on lots of menus.  So I say that I started drinking them just before the fad hit.  

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1549 on: June 04, 2025, 02:48:40 PM »
That's the thing about beverages, try stuff, you probably will not be crazy about some, dislike some, and find some you do like.  I'm always up for trying wine from some new region, or new varietal (there aren't many of these).  I tried Tito's vodka based on what I read here and found it is very good to my tastes, very clean, good with tonic, whatever.  That's my go to, and it's reasonably priced (unlike that French stuff my wife likes, she likes Tito's just fine if she thinks it's some goose variety).

5 Best Texas Vodkas - Spec's Wines, Spirits & Finer Foods
5 Best Texas Vodkas - Spec's Wines, Spirits & Finer Foods

I once thought all vodkas had to taste the same because they are just distilled and not aged, but that was wrong.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1550 on: June 04, 2025, 02:49:21 PM »
Pomme cidre ... it's a thing in Normandy and Brittany.

SFBadger96

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1551 on: June 04, 2025, 03:54:07 PM »
I'm not a fan of IPAs. I don't mind that other people are, but the faddish part of them is the takeover of so many shelves in liquor stores dedicated to them. That's the part that I don't care for. But I can still find what I like, so it's just a nuisance.

ELA

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1552 on: June 04, 2025, 03:54:58 PM »
He has the same number of wins since May 2 as the Colorado Rockies.  3

https://twitter.com/Rockies/status/1930335923809726537

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1553 on: June 04, 2025, 03:56:59 PM »
Speaking of fads, my wife likes yogurt, but not "Greek yogurt", and good luck finding NGY at Kroger theses days.

I like GY fine.  Everything is Greek now.  Started by a Turk who figured Turkish yogurt would never sell.


 

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