Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

[Mdot21]

this is my take
there is only one party and it's corrupt and self serving

the Koch brothers, big pharma, wall street firms & banks, big tech, private equity, Sheldon Adelson- all these billionaires, businesses, and groups donate ridiculous sums of money to politicians' campaigns and re-election funds on both sides of the aisle. They bet on both horses to ensure they get outcomes they want. There's a website called opensecrets.org where it tracks exactly how much each politician has gotten and from whom. It's fascinating.

We're basically living under soft form of fascism. The corporations have become the government. Thanks Citizens United!

[Big Beef Tacosupreme]

Not buying the religious aspect of the argument. I'd say we should just leave religion out of government and discussion of government. Like the founders. Jefferson wasn't exactly religious. And not sure how moral slavery and women being essentially property of a man were....'cause yeah that shit happened back then. Not really moral.



I don't know. I think it all just comes down to tribalism. No different than people rooting for their favorite college football teams. "Red team awesome, blue team SUCKKSSSSS!" People just pick the democrat or republican team and cheer on no matter what.



I actually voted for Obama first time around because he caught me hook line and sinker on all the "hopey changey" (as Sarah Palin would say) - bullshit. I wasn't going to vote for McCain- not with his long horrific track record. Obama didn't really have a track record as he had been a state legislator and had only been a US senator for like a year and a half before he ran for President. Little did I know the guys entire first cabinet was handpicked by CitiBank. Thank god for WikiLeaks revealing that info many years later.


The same people who protested in the streets and condemned W for being a corporate stooge, for the Iraq war (rightfully), for black ops capture and torture programs (rightfully), drone strikes (rightfully) - pretty much never said a god damn word about Obama continuing and expanding most of the worst of Bush's policies. Not a god damn word. The guy made Bush's tax cuts permanent. He took the US from 2 wars to 7. Increased drone strikes by something insane like 4,000% or something like that. Pushed through the biggest corporate bailout in history which was completely geared towards Wall Street and completely screwed over Main Street- which saw 95% of the income gains go to the top 1% during the recovery- NEVER prosecuted a single person involved in the entire financial crisis- he deported just as many if not more people than Mr. Trump. Destroyed Libya and turned it into a failed state where slavery markets exist now. Did nothing about 5.1 million families losing their house to foreclosure. Not people. Families. The foreclosure relief program was designed to help bankers, not homeowners. He EXPANDED spying powers and the security state. He prosecuted more whistle-blowers under the espionage act than EVERY PRESIDENT IN HISTORY COMBINED.



None of this was hardly ever mentioned. And it blows my god damn mind.These two parties are basically the same side of the coin, very little differences to be honest with you

Democrats took a big conservative turn under Clinton, and have continued that strategy for the last 20+ years.  The plan was to get more of the moderate vote.  What it really did was allow republicans to go even more conservative. 

I think I can say with quite a bit of confidence that Ronald Reagan would be a democrat these days. 

1.  He was elected due to his hard stance on the cold war, and probably would have taken Russian interference in our elections as an act of war.   Obviously that is nowhere even close to Trump's position on the matter.

2.  The Clean Air Act vs ????  The republican party platform has pretty much been rolling back environmental regulations as fast as they can.

3.  Unions are no longer a real concern for either party, so his hard anti-union stance would be unnecessary

4.  He worked to find a bi-partisan solution to fix the Social Security system for the long term.  Republicans today are actively trying to find a way to cut social security, including massive cuts proposed by Trump in his 2020 budget proposal.

5.  He downplayed hot button issues like abortion, gay rights, and racial integration.

6.  He was very anti-drug.  Although the republicans are still more of the "anti-drug" party, even they have lost enthusiasm for the war on drugs.  

7.  He was a huge supporter of free trade.  Our president now?  Quite the opposite.

8.  Reagan was staunchly in favor of the New Deal and was proud that he voted for FDR 4 times.  The new deal would be rolled back completely by almost any libertarian or Tea Party republican.  

I could go on and on an on.

Except for social issues, the country has shifted right.

[Big Beef Tacosupreme]

the Koch brothers, big pharma, wall street firms & banks, big tech, private equity, Sheldon Adelson- all these billionaires, businesses, and groups donate ridiculous sums of money to politicians' campaigns and re-election funds on both sides of the aisle. They bet on both horses to ensure they get outcomes they want. There's a website called opensecrets.org where it tracks exactly how much each politician has gotten and from whom. It's fascinating.

We're basically living under soft form of fascism. The corporations have become the government. Thanks Citizens United!

Sounds like you might not vote.  The Supreme Court is my #1 voting concern, and it probably should be for you. 

[FearlessF]

 There's a website called opensecrets.org where it tracks exactly how much each politician has gotten and from whom. It's fascinating.

I've checked it

it's depressing

[847badgerfan]

I think I can say with quite a bit of confidence that Ronald Reagan would be a democrat these days. 

1.  He was elected due to his hard stance on the cold war, and probably would have taken Russian interference in our elections as an act of war.  Obviously that is nowhere even close to Trump's position on the matter.
 
2. I could go on and on an on.

3. Except for social issues, the country has shifted right.

1. He was elected because Jimmy Carter was a f'ing disaster. Democrats? Republicans? Nobody knows WTF that even means anymore.

2. No. 

3. Bulljive.

People who are the center-right give far more to charity than those on the left, based on proportion of income. You are a "data guy" and I HAVE DATA. One example would be your presumed* hero Bill Gates. He gives far less of his percentage of income than I do. ONE example.

I'd much rather ME distribute my money than some dumbass in DC. I'm good at. Those in DC SUCK at it.


* I <<think>> I know where you roll. Please give 20% of your income to charity, like I do, and have done for years.

Volunteer too. 15 hours per week. Rock on.

[847badgerfan]

Sounds like you might not vote.  The Supreme Court is my #1 voting concern, and it probably should be for you. 

Yep. Me too. Hopefully there will be one more constitutionalist confirmed before we go to hell.

[CWSooner]

Democrats took a big conservative turn under Clinton, and have continued that strategy for the last 20+ years.  The plan was to get more of the moderate vote.  What it really did was allow republicans to go even more conservative. 

I think I can say with quite a bit of confidence that Ronald Reagan would be a democrat these days. 

1.  He was elected due to his hard stance on the cold war, and probably would have taken Russian interference in our elections as an act of war.  Obviously that is nowhere even close to Trump's position on the matter.

2.  The Clean Air Act vs ????  The republican party platform has pretty much been rolling back environmental regulations as fast as they can.

3.  Unions are no longer a real concern for either party, so his hard anti-union stance would be unnecessary

4.  He worked to find a bi-partisan solution to fix the Social Security system for the long term.  Republicans today are actively trying to find a way to cut social security, including massive cuts proposed by Trump in his 2020 budget proposal.

5.  He downplayed hot button issues like abortion, gay rights, and racial integration.

6.  He was very anti-drug.  Although the republicans are still more of the "anti-drug" party, even they have lost enthusiasm for the war on drugs. 

7.  He was a huge supporter of free trade.  Our president now?  Quite the opposite.

8.  Reagan was staunchly in favor of the New Deal and was proud that he voted for FDR 4 times.  The new deal would be rolled back completely by almost any libertarian or Tea Party republican. 

I could go on and on an on.

Except for social issues, the country has shifted right.

Respectfully, I disagree on every point except #5.  Reagan would not be a member of today's Democratic Party.  What about today's Democrats would draw him in?  He wouldn't like the current all-in-for-Trump GOP either, though.  He was also pro-immigration, another way he wouldn't like today's GOP.  He'd be a man without a party.

I had a long rebuttal posted, but I deleted it, as this thread is supposed to be "no politics."

[FearlessF]

I had a long rebuttal posted, but I deleted it, as this thread is supposed to be "no politics."

nice work

[utee94]

Agree that Reagan would neither recognize, nor find a home in, either of today's current political parties.

[FearlessF]

Ronald - the only republican my grandfather ever voted for

[OrangeAfroMan]

this is my take
there is only one party and it's corrupt and self serving

They're rewarded for being so.  

The masses are easily distracted from the fleecing that never ends.  

[Mdot21]

1. He was elected because Jimmy Carter was a f'ing disaster. Democrats? Republicans? Nobody knows WTF that even means anymore.

It wasn't Jimmy Carter being a disaster. It was honestly more just the circumstances of the times and Jimmy Carter getting blamed for them. The inflation of the 70's was caused by 40+ years of policy by central planners aiming for full-employment in the US economy. A polish economist named Michal Kaelcki predicted the 1970's to a T in a paper he wrote in the early 1940's called Political Aspects of Full Employment.

There was also a run on the dollar in the 70s, which caused Nixon to completely severe all ties of the US dollar to gold. There were a couple of oil crises because of wars in the Middle East and the revolution in Iran which hurt. Nixon pushing the Federal Reserve to drop interest rates before the election in 1972 is what set the inflation of the 1970s into gear.

Reagan was elected because the 1970s were a disaster- not Jimmy Carter- and becasue of his magnetic personality imo. Reagan is probably one of the greatest politicians there ever was. He could speak to an entire room and make every person in that room feel as if he was just talking to them. He could make people feel like they've known them all of his life. He was an actor after all. One of the most compelling, awe-inspiring politicians I've ever seen- and this is coming from someone who thinks the guy should've probably been prosecuted for war crimes.

[Mdot21]

Sounds like you might not vote.  The Supreme Court is my #1 voting concern, and it probably should be for you.

Unfortunately I am probably going to vote for Trump. Joe Biden is one of the biggest corporate shill puppets in the history of this country and is a completely useless morally bankrupt turd that is corrupt as they come. Both of his sons and his brother have made stupid money off of him. Oh yeah, not to mention he is clearly suffering from early on set dementia.

I cannot in good conscience vote for MBNA Joe.

[Mdot21]

Democrats took a big conservative turn under Clinton, and have continued that strategy for the last 20+ years.  The plan was to get more of the moderate vote.  What it really did was allow republicans to go even more conservative. 

I think I can say with quite a bit of confidence that Ronald Reagan would be a democrat these days. 

1.  He was elected due to his hard stance on the cold war, and probably would have taken Russian interference in our elections as an act of war.  Obviously that is nowhere even close to Trump's position on the matter.

2.  The Clean Air Act vs ????  The republican party platform has pretty much been rolling back environmental regulations as fast as they can.

3.  Unions are no longer a real concern for either party, so his hard anti-union stance would be unnecessary

4.  He worked to find a bi-partisan solution to fix the Social Security system for the long term.  Republicans today are actively trying to find a way to cut social security, including massive cuts proposed by Trump in his 2020 budget proposal.

5.  He downplayed hot button issues like abortion, gay rights, and racial integration.

6.  He was very anti-drug.  Although the republicans are still more of the "anti-drug" party, even they have lost enthusiasm for the war on drugs. 

7.  He was a huge supporter of free trade.  Our president now?  Quite the opposite.

8.  Reagan was staunchly in favor of the New Deal and was proud that he voted for FDR 4 times.  The new deal would be rolled back completely by almost any libertarian or Tea Party republican. 

I could go on and on an on.

Except for social issues, the country has shifted right.

Democrats took a turn towards big business under Clinton. I wouldn't necessarily say they took a conservative turn.

I think Reagan probably would've been a Republican, as the guy was, you know, a Republican after-all. And the Republican party still worships the guy like he was some god.

1) the Soviet Union is dead. Russia is basically a giant gas station today. It's a kleptocracy ruled by a gangster and his buddies. Reagan didn't see Russia as the evil empire. He saw the USSR and the spread of communism as evil. USSR dead. Communism no more. And also- he was not elected because of a hard stance on USSR. He was elected because the 1970s were an economic disaster. And how do people vote? Usually with their wallets.

And also- to suggest there was massive Russian interference in the election and that's why Hillary Clinton- one of the most corrupt, most disliked people in the history of politics- lost the election is laughable. I'm sorry but you will get nowhere and fast with me on that. Russigate was nothing but propaganda and bullshit. Years of investigations and the facts have borne this out.

FYI- Donald Trump has been tougher on Russia than Obama in many instances. Trump expelled more Russian diplomats from US soil in his first 18 months than Obama did in 8 years. Trump closed down Russian diplomatic properties in San Fransisco, DC, and NYC. Trump closed the Russian consulate in Seattle. Trump has expanded all of the Obama Russia sanctions and has put on more even tougher sanctions on Russia. Trump has even sold lethal arms to Ukraine- this is something Obama refused to do because he knew it would increase tensions with Russia. Trump made a deal to sell coal and oil to Ukraine. Again...not something Russia- a literal giant gas station of which Ukraine depends on for energy- wants at all. Trump shit talked and trashed NATO and basically publicly shamed European countries into increasing their spending on military and chipping in more to the NATO budget. Trump increased the US military budget by $131 billion. Again- two things Russia can't be thrilled about. At all. How is his attitude again? People need to look at the facts and come with the facts before they throw out blanket statements.

And it really falls on deaf ears when people say Russia interfered with our elections- considering the US gov't and it's CIA have done far worse than simply meddle in elections. Political assassinations, backing military coups that overthrow governments, election rigging. Check, check, check. I find it hysterical that people forget that just a little over 20 years ago under Clinton, the state department and the CIA got Boris Yeltsin elected in Russia. Yeltsin, the drunk useful idiot, was "our guy". Election meddling much. Lol.

You know who actually actively interferes in our elections. A LOT. And to a far stronger degree than any other country in the world and it's not even close and no one says shit about it: Israel. Kinda weird how no one ever says shit about that though.

2) Government regulations are not going to save us from climate change. Innovation in renewable technologies and Nuclear energy might be the only thing that can save us. Trump's roll-backs on the environment were designed to help relaunch coal mining and give oil companies a shot in the arm. Coal isn't  coming back, and oil is on the clock. Is he doing a bad job on the environment? Yeah. We're going backwards there. Are people over-playing it with the doom and gloom? Yes.

3) Neither party gives a shit about unions because: globalization via "free trade deals" like NAFTA which are not free trade deals but merely investor rights agreements- and permanent normalized trade relations with China- have basically squeezed labor to the point where it has no recourse. Capital can punish labor by saying OK...bye felicia....we're going to China to replace you.

4) Newsflash: Democrats actively want to cut social security too. And the thing is broken because Democrats and Republicans spent all the damn money in the "trust fund".

5) He just had a don't ask don't tell policy in the military. He basically ignored the HIV/AIDS pandemic. Never tried to do a single thing about the crack epidemic plaguing black communities in inner-cities the 80s.

6) He was so anti-drug- he looked the other way while his CIA worked with the largest cocaine traffickers in the world in order to arm the Contras.

7) He was not a supporter of "free trade". He was a supporter of investor rights agreements. And even in his wildest fantasies and wet dreams Reagan could have never imagined permanent normalized trade relations with China. Trump is actually dead on the money when it comes to "free trade". It's one of the few things he's actually on the money about. Unfortunately he seems more bark than bite here. He didn't go far enough in the agreement with Canada and Mexico- it's basically just NAFTA light, or in his agreement he's still working on with China. He needs to nail China to the cross.

Oh and you do realize that it was Trump pushing for instant direct cash payments- and it was Pelosi- a Democrat- who put the nail in the coffin on that before it got started. Pelosi said nope- have to do means testing and mail checks! And it was Trump pushing for Medicare for All on coronavirus patients without insurance. Hillary Clinton? She tweeted something along the lines of easy answer: reopen the exchanges! Yeah. Open the exchanges when millions lost their jobs. Great idea! Lol. He's been to the left on them on a lot of issues.