header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

 (Read 33808 times)

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12140
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #308 on: April 10, 2020, 11:24:39 AM »
I don't see an all-out ground war between superpowers (US, China, Russia). I don't think that territorial expansion is the goal of those countries. It's economic/political hegemony. (And Russia is mostly out of it at this point.)

Per utee's point, though, I could see proxy wars fought in other countries over political control in those countries... 

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9295
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #309 on: April 10, 2020, 11:28:16 AM »
If we dont start manufacturing our medical drugs and supplies in this country we will be in for a world of hurt
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17625
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #310 on: April 10, 2020, 11:34:06 AM »
If we dont start manufacturing our medical drugs and supplies in this country we will be in for a world of hurt
Food is also a national defense interest, and a lot of our food supply chain goes through China and other remote countries now, as well.

This is a massive wake-up call.  I hope the country is ready to hear it.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25061
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #311 on: April 10, 2020, 11:49:59 AM »
Oh yeah, we need to start making all of our stuff here. Put people to work in manufacturing and other good fields, after we educate them.

As for a ground war, I often wonder. The US as 1.3 Million in its military.

China: 2.3M
North Korea: 1.2M
Russia: 770K
Iran: 550K
Venezuela: 320K

Those are the main adversaries, I guess. I don't worry too much about the last one. They attacked a defenseless cruise ship with their navy last week and their navy sunk.

Lots of manpower in that group though. I highly doubt they could get it here.

India has 2.3M. 

Turkey has the 2nd most (700K) numbers in NATO, by far (France - 200K). Of course, I don't trust Turkey.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #312 on: April 10, 2020, 11:54:07 AM »
And Russia is mostly out of it at this point.
You're crazy to take your eyes off of IVAN as long as Putin is pulling the strings
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #313 on: April 10, 2020, 11:57:13 AM »
    I was looking for just that 😜
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #314 on: April 10, 2020, 12:00:54 PM »
So I could see ground war movement against geographical sites sitting on... say... very large oil deposits.
Or taking over large Tech Manufacturing Installations
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25061
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #315 on: April 10, 2020, 12:12:05 PM »
Or taking over large Tech Manufacturing Installations
Or destroying the ones we built, rendering them useless.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12140
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #316 on: April 10, 2020, 12:40:37 PM »
You're crazy to take your eyes off of IVAN as long as Putin is pulling the strings
I'd start opining on whose strings he's pulling, exactly, but this is the "no politics" thread...

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37407
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #317 on: April 10, 2020, 12:46:21 PM »
y'all mean ground war with aircraft, drones, missiles and other things in the sky supporting a handful of men in boots?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37407
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #318 on: April 10, 2020, 12:48:52 PM »
a lot of the problem is budgeting, at least within local governments.

i have some friends in charge of some aspects of the police force here, and every year they scramble around spending what left in their budget on things they don't need, because if they don't they'll lose that amount in the next budget. so they have no "savings" for when they do need something unexpected and expensive. and when that happens, they go asking for an increase in the budget for that item, and then put it in the budget request for the next year, and so it grows and grows.
this needs to stop
and the folks that spend less than their budget should be rewarded, not penalized 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #319 on: April 10, 2020, 12:52:22 PM »
y'all mean ground war with aircraft, drones, missiles and other things in the sky supporting a handful of men in boots?
Actually we were going send you out with some Bud Fat and your clubs.Any belligerent force would be laughing so hard the rest of us could get them in a rush
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37407
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #320 on: April 10, 2020, 12:53:36 PM »
arm my golf cart named Hooter with some rockets and a 50 cal

I'll cut open a swath!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

SFBadger96

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1243
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #321 on: April 10, 2020, 01:54:50 PM »
A full scale ground war is unlikely in the current environment, but it wouldn't take a lot to change that (I think COVID-19 is showing how fragile many things are that we don't normally think about).

Given all the factors that go in, the military acquisition process is actually fairly efficient. Indeed, government in general is relatively efficient in more cases than people think. Particularly people who work in big business are quite familiar with the inefficiencies in it. Large bureaucracies naturally contain inefficiency. The Government is a VERY large bureaucracy, and it still manages many things more efficiently than the private sector. But it doesn't turn profits, so people think it isn't working (notwithstanding that the government's job isn't to turn a profit). 

Because of the taxpayer's concern for budgets, one of the ways in which government is inefficient is the requirement (in most cases) that the government buys from the low bidder. This is true in DOD, but also throughout most of government. I was on the sidelines for a massive infrastructure project where one bidder had completed Phase I, below budget and ahead of schedule, with a better-than-expected safety record. Nonetheless, that bidder lost Phase II despite submitted a bid less than 1% higher than the winning bidder. That is an example of where the desire for low government spending almost certainly ended up costing the government more. Few businesses would ever make that decision. Anyway, I digress (a little). 

The question of whether a military branch "wants" a system, base, etc. is also fraught. Generally it's not whether the military wants the thing, it's a question of how high a priority it is for the branch. The Army wants a next generation tank to replace the M1 variants (currently working on A3), but when Congress tells it to expect a certain amount of money for procurement, the new tank isn't high enough on the priority list to make the cut. The Air Force recognizes the need for a next generation close air support aircraft (i.e., to replace the A-10), but when it looks at the role We the People expect USAF to execute, that CAS airframe isn't high enough on the priority list to make the cut.

For a long time now the stated goal of the US Military was to be able to respond to two significant military crises at the same time (e.g., southwest Asia and Korea). That demands a lot of resources. Re-thinking that may be worthwhile (and is happening all the time, I think). We are also currently operating with some really old technology throughout the services. The Army's "new" transport helicopter has been in service since the 80s. The M1 came on line in the late 70s (granted, both have been upgraded, but many of those upgrades have been computer systems). The Army's "heavy" transport helicopter has been in service since the 1960s! Same with the Air Force--while it has the F-22 and F-35, the F-15s and 16s have been in service since (I think) the early 80s (maybe late 70s); and we really don't have a fleet of heavy bombers--the B52 first flew in 1952!

Nonetheless, for 35 years the US has been unchallenged on a traditional battlefield (whether ground, air, or sea).

Russia's annexation of the Crimea has the military (and policy makers) much more concerned with traditional battlefields, and China's buildup of a deepwater navy--which primarily serves as a vehicle for force projection--gives another cause for real concern about future conflict/battlefields. War with China versus war with Russia look much different from a planning/operational perspective.

Ok, but turning back to a different, if related, comment above: returning primary food and manufacturing production to the United States would take a major government intervention and would be a massive assault on the fundamentals of free-market capitalism that have been the basis for U.S. economic expansion since, essentially, the end of WWII. That is radical, leftist thinking. Seriously.

In a wartime environment, the U.S. would likely be able to shift food and manufacturing production to the home front, as required, but it wouldn't be nimble. Of course, each one of our likely competitors would have the same problem.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.