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Topic: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal

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RestingB!tchFace

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #70 on: October 29, 2021, 01:57:35 PM »
I think that there are a number of one loss P5 teams that would be put in before the Bearcats.  But once you get to two losses?  Sorry.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2021, 02:06:31 PM »
I think that's mostly right.  There may be some kind of blueprint for it, not sure. 

I lived in San Marcos for several years, home of the Texas State Bobcats.  At the time they were in the Southland, a battery conference with McNeese, Nicholls, Steven F. Austin, etc.  While I was there they committed a lot of money to upgrading their stadium to seat enough to meet FBS requirements, and joined the Sunbelt.  I don't know how it's going for them, and I don't know if FCS --> G5 is analogous to G5 --> P5

If it is possible, that doesn't mean it's reasonable for a smaller school. 

Still, as far as the playoffs are concerned, I don't think there is panacea that satisfies all valid opinions.  I can only offer that I think mostly those teams don't belong anywhere near Ohio State, Alabama, etc. in the playoffs, and I'm okay with the current rules that get them there in an unlikely scenario. 
FCS->FBS is completely different than G5->P5. Not even analogous. 

You can invest the time, money, and resources and make yourself FBS from the FCS. Technically you need an sponsoring invitation from a conference (although Liberty apparently was granted a waiver to go independent). But if you look at the number of schools historically that have gone from FCS to FBS, apparently it's not THAT hard to come by that invitation.

To go G5 to P5, it requires an invitation first and foremost. And those don't really exist. 

If you look since 2000, there are basically only two schools that can be said to have made the leap.

In 2005, Louisville jumped from CUSA to the Big East. This occurred when the Big East was raided by the ACC, losing Miami, BC, and VTech. So in a desperation move, the Big East picked up Louisville. They then got picked up by the ACC in 2014 the destruction of the Big East as a football conference.

In 2012, TCU jumped from the MWC to the Big 12. As mentioned, this again was a bit of a desperation add with the B12 losing MU/CU/UNL/A&M and them needing to keep numbers, but it was also a bit of a reconnection with their old SWC mates. So there was history there.

Interestingly, after the Big East had its reconfiguration, less then a decade later it ceased to be a football conference at all, and it was rapidly losing any cachet it had as a "power" conference. With the B12 now losing Texas/OU and appearing to add BYU/UCF/Cincy/UH, I think they will drop from P to G, if they aren't raided further. 

Conference realignment has been about reshuffling power conference teams, NOT about adding G-conference teams. 

That's why it's the glass ceiling. 

bayareabadger

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #72 on: October 29, 2021, 02:06:39 PM »
The major flaw I see with "a mid-tier P5 team can join the MAC" (and the guy's point earlier about TAMU can join the Sunbelt) is the assumption that a team's status remains static with a jump to a lesser conference, and I don't see any reason to think that is justified. 

Back in the days of ftbobs, he had a ton of historical data supporting that the conference you play in matters.  Even disregarding data, it's simply intuitive.  If A&M did such a thing, they wouldn't be "A&M" for very long.  They'd lose a metric ton of $$ brought in by being in the SEC.  Recruits would not be so eager to sign up for playing Ga. Southern and Ark. St. as they might be to play Auburn and LSU.  Now they no longer have "A&M quality" players.  They're transitioning to the generally accepted category of teams who shouldn't be in the playoffs for all the known reasons, and they'd be doing it to themselves--while losing money.  It's just a matter of time before there's little distinction between Texas A&M and the scrubs they tried to pave their easier road with, thereby negating the very reason they wanted to join in the first place.  It's both self-defeating and impoverishing. 

As far as the "playoff doing its job," that depends entirely on what one thinks the job of the playoff is. 

Myself, I don't really need the playoff to give me the "best teams."  If I wanted that I'd be an NFL fan, which is much more geared towards "who's the best by the end of the season" rather than "who had the best resume this season," and is one reason I consider it a completely different sport than cfb. 

Or at least it used to be.  Getting less and less by the minute.
Mike, the leaving the big conferences thing was tongue in cheek. There was lamentation about the unfairness that would befall some big conference teams.

(I don’t mind the résumé element of it. I tend to like a bit more order, but there is a charm to the bar argument nature of it. Wild this sport relied on the opinions of the media and people with a stake in it for so long)

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2021, 02:58:25 PM »
All good points Cincy lost by 3 in January to Georgia.That may be the fly in the ointment this year,just sayin'
It was kind of Georgia....but not really.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2021, 02:59:14 PM »
As baseball just showed us, playoffs are for entertainment.  
I don't find anything entertaining about blowouts in a playoff.
Nothing entertaining about starters resting in the second half.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ELA

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2021, 03:03:38 PM »
As baseball just showed us, playoffs are for entertainment. 
What are sports?

medinabuckeye1

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #76 on: October 29, 2021, 03:21:23 PM »
Uh huh. https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401247326
First, that was last year.  Indiana finished 6-1 and ranked #11 and that was their ONLY loss.  Ohio State's "only" seven point win over Indiana was better than ANY of Indiana's other opponents did.  The 42 points scored by tOSU was more than any other team scored on IU.  Others:
  • 42 by tOSU
  • 28 by PSU (35 total but 28 in regulation)
  • 21 by Rutgers
  • 21 by Michigan
  • 11 by Maryland
  • 6 by Wisconsin
  • 0 by MSU
So in 2020 Ohio State scored 14 more points than any other team against the Hoosiers.  

The 35 points given up to Indiana by Ohio State as good but it isn't all that bad.  In their other games:
  • 14 against Wisconsin
  • 24 against MSU
  • 27 against Maryland
  • 28 against PSU (36 total but 28 in regulation)
  • 35 against tOSU
  • 37 against Rutgers
  • 38 against Michigan

So in looking at games against IU-20 the Buckeyes had BY FAR the best offensive performance and a defensive performance that was not great.  

Here is the same comparison for IU's opponents so far this year:
Offense against IU:
  • 54 tOSU
  • 38 Cincy
  • 34 Iowa
  • 31 WKY
  • 24 PSU
  • 20 MSU
  • 14 Idaho
Defense against IU:
  • 0 PSU
  • 6 Iowa
  • 7 tOSU
  • 20 MSU
  • 24 Cincy
  • 33 WKY
  • 56 Idaho


Cincy's offensive performance is second only to tOSU and their defensive performance is not great.  Offensively the Bearcats were nowhere near as good as the Buckeyes and slightly better than the Hawkeyes.  Defensively the Bearcats were better than WKY and Idaho but not quite as good as MSU and not even close to tOSU, Iowa, and PSU.  

Cincy's performance against IU isn't NC Caliber on either side of the ball.  At least tOSU's performance against IU in 2020 was NC Caliber on one side of the ball.  

Finally, I just want to point out that one game does not make a resume either good or bad.  All teams have good and bad games.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #77 on: October 29, 2021, 03:48:53 PM »
Sure, they're a finite resource. But let's say OSU goes on to lose to PSU, wins out the rest of the way, and beats a West team that gets into the CCG on a tiebreaker with 2 losses.
FWIW, tOSU would definitely go to the B1GCG with a loss to PSU and otherwise winning out because they'd be 8-1 in the B1G and the best any other team could do would be that the M/MSU winner could also be 8-1 but they'd lose the tiebreaker to tOSU based on H2H.  
So they finish 11-2 and Cincy finishes 13-0.

Assume those are the two best options for the 4th CFP slot. Are you putting OSU in over Cincy? 
If I am a one man committee this is not enough information for me to answer the question.  I'm comparing resumes and it is complicated by the fact that SoS is vastly different.  Based on current rankings (which would obviously change as all of the opponents lost to tOSU/Cincy) Ohio State would be 3-2 against AP top-25 opponents:
  • beat #6 Michigan on the road
  • lost to #7 Oregon at home
  • beat #8 MSU at home
  • beat #9 Iowa (assuming here) at a neutral site
  • lost to #20 PSU at home

By comparison, Cincy would be 3-0 against the AP top-25:
  • Beat #11 Notre Dame on the road
  • Beat #19 SMU at home twice (I think because I think the AACCG is hosted by the higher seed).  

3-0 is obviously better than 3-2 without context but with context it is a lot closer.  Ohio State would have three wins over teams better than any team that Cincy played (#6 M, #8 MSU, #9 Iowa) and one of their two losses (#7 Oregon) would also be to a team better than any team that Cincy played.  

I also happen to think that Notre Dame, SMU, and MSU are all overrated but my opinion right now isn't important.  What would be important is how Notre Dame, SMU, MSU and all the rest of tOSU's and Cincy's opponent finished up their seasons.  If Notre Dame wins out to finish 11-1 they'll be top-10 and that helps Cincy's argument.  If they lose to UNC this weekend then also drop another one to stumble to 9-3 they'll barely be ranked (if at all) and that hurts Cincy's argument.  Same concept applies to all other opponents of both but Ohio State has a lot more cushion here because their scheduled opponents and likely CG opponent are a LOT higher ranked so they have more room to drop and still be quality wins.  

Finally I'd need to know what each teams' games looked like.  

If tOSU looses to PSU on an extra point in the fourth OT then just flat obliterates UNL, PU, MSU, M, and IA (assumption) that looks a lot better than if they get run off the field by the Nittany Lions then eek out last second and OT wins over their last five opponents.  

The same is true for Cincy.  So far this year Cincy has looked good but not NC Caliber good.  If they win six more games that look like the Navy game where they barely beat a horrible opponent that doesn't look so good.  If they go out and obliterate their last six opponents that looks better.  

If I were on the committee my position would be that if you play a crap schedule you need to dominate most of your opponents to even get consideration so if Cincy won their last six games by one score each I wouldn't even consider them for a CFP spot no matter who the alternative was.  13-0 against that schedule is NOT impressive for a NC Contender.  If they were to dominate the rest of their schedule that would be enough for me to consider them and at that point, in this hypothetical it would depend where Ohio State fell on a continuum between the two extremes that I listed above (drilled by PSU and barely beat the other five vs barely lost to PSU and obliterated the other five).  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #78 on: October 29, 2021, 04:15:31 PM »
What are sports?
Depends if you're watching or participating...
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ELA

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #79 on: October 29, 2021, 04:16:39 PM »
Depends if you're watching or participating...
I'm watching.  It's entertainment.  Otherwise it's like yelling at Back to the Future that time travel doesn't exist.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2021, 04:38:17 PM »
But we only watch because the players on the field are competing at 110%, balls-to-the-wall.  If we get too cutesy with how we determine who the best is, you wind up with a bunch of non-scholarship 5'8" white kids trying really hard.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #81 on: October 29, 2021, 04:58:18 PM »
Different people watch sports for different reasons. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #82 on: October 29, 2021, 08:26:38 PM »
Yeah, NFL fans watch solely for gambling and fantasy football purposes.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: G5 Scheduling Alliance Proposal
« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2021, 10:34:03 PM »
What are sports?
Both life and death 

 

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