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Topic: Establishing an OOC Rivalry

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #112 on: June 25, 2020, 06:05:38 PM »
There are plenty of bowls in the south that draw a sparse crowd.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #113 on: June 25, 2020, 06:11:27 PM »
Nobody is arguing why bowl games are in the south / southwest. Midwesterners know exactly why -- when the Midwest is frozen solid, it's *nice* to head to a pleasant climate, throw a pair of shorts on, and cheer on our teams. 

The complaint is twofold...


  • We understand that playing an SEC team in the South or playing a PAC-12 team (quite often USC because they're the Helmet) in Pasadena kinda puts you at a HFA deficit before the B1G team even shows up, and there's an effect therein.
  • We like to poke fun at SEC teams who we think would freeze to death if they had to play a game in B1G conditions in the winter. The SEC doesn't like to leave their footprint, ever, but when they do for OOC it's in September. 




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MrNubbz

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #114 on: June 25, 2020, 08:31:28 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2020, 04:28:12 PM

Bitching about the locations of bowls in warm-weather climates is an after-the-fact excuse losers give.  Period. 
Because you're such a winner and the envy of the board.Why are you bringing up your period?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #115 on: June 26, 2020, 12:20:30 AM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on June 25, 2020, 08:31:28 PM
Because you're such a winner and the envy of the board.Why are you bringing up your period?
Thank you for the personal attack.  Please don't ever deny us your contributions to the board.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MrNubbz

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #116 on: June 26, 2020, 01:39:50 AM »
One almost needs a bucket when you post,you sling it then sound like a cat caught in a fan belt when it splashes back
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #117 on: June 26, 2020, 01:50:41 AM »
I'm beginning to think you don't like me.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #118 on: June 26, 2020, 01:52:56 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on June 25, 2020, 01:17:26 PM
it's an old argument, a dead horse that's been beaten for decades

playing on your home field is an advantage, playing in your backyard, not on your home field is an advantage, playing with a decided crowd favorite in the stands is an advantage

we all know the reason bowl games are played in the south
Right, climate.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #119 on: June 26, 2020, 02:34:51 AM »
I believe that we have stumbled on the root of Fro's fierce objection to a warming climate. 

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #120 on: June 26, 2020, 03:25:28 AM »
It's kind of funny.  The issue is having to play USC/UCLA in the RB and playing Miami in the OB, right?  
I guess I have 2 questions:
a - which specific games would the outcome have been different without the homefield advantage?
b - aren't you simply complaining that USC and Miami were good enough to even play in these bowls?  If Miami, an indepedent, had simply gone 7-4 every year in the 80s, there'd be no complaint, right?  If Oregon had happened to be the class of the PAC-8/10/12 for the last 50 years, there'd be no complaint.  


Rose Bowls, including USC/UCLA since....let's say 1963, when it was a 1 vs 2 matchup with a close result.  Which of these games (USC/UCLA wins) would have been different if the game was held in Chicago or Denver or Havana:
1963:  1 USC over 2 Wisconsin by 5
1965:  5 UCLA over 1 MSU by 2
1968:  1 USC over UR Indiana by 11
1969:  5 USC over 7 Michigan by 7
1972:  1 USC over 3 OSU by 25
1974:  5 USC over 3 OSU by 1
1975:  11 UCLA over 1 OSU by 13
1976:  3 USC over 2 Michigan by 8
1978:  3 USC over 5 Michigan by 7
1979:  3 USC over 1 OSU by 1
1982:  5 UCLA over 19 Michigan by 10
1983:  UR UCLA over 4 Illinois by 36
1984:  18 USC over 6 OSU by 3
1985:  13 UCLA over 4 Iowa by 17
1989:  12 USC over 3 Michigan by 7
1995:  17 USC over 3 N'Western by 9
2003:  1 USC over 4 Michigan by 14
2006:  8 USC over 3 Michigan by 14
2007:  6 USC over 13 Illinois by 32
2008:  5 USC over 6 Penn St by 14
2016:  9 USC over 5 Penn St by 3

I'm really afraid that a couple of mid-70s upsets is the root of this ongoing narrative about fairness.  
Let's cross out the non-upsets.  
Then let's cross out the not-close upsets (by more than one possession).

What's left?
1965, 1974, 1976, 1979, 1984, 1989, and 2016.  Seven games in 57 years.  How many of them were due to the location of the game?  Half?  2/3?  3/4?  This is what we're arguing about here?  


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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2020, 03:36:54 AM »
When it comes to the Orange Bowl problem, we have a much shorter history.  No one seemed to mind playing in the warm weather and bikini-rich beaches back when they were beating an upstart FSU team.  But once Miami got good and happened to earn their way to the bowl did it start to seem unfair.

Wins by state of FL schools in the OB since it became southern-centric, around 1979 and until it ceased to be, around 2004:

1983:  5 Miami over 1 Nebraska by 1
1987:  2 Miami over 1 Oklahoma by 6
1988:  2 Miami over 6 Nebraska by 20
1991:  1 Miami over 11 Nebraska by 22
1992:  3 FSU over 11 Nebraska by 13
1993:  1 FSU over 2 Nebraska by 2
1995:  8 FSU over 6 Notre Dame by 5
1998:  7 Florida over 18 Syracuse by 21
2001:  5 Florida over 6 Maryland by 33

Okay, same drill.  Cross out the non-upsets.  Then the not-close upsets.

We're left with 3 games.  3 outcomes where the location of the game may have had a hand in the outcome. 
I doubt any of you care about the ND game in 1995.  The 1986 game was just more of the same, where OU beat everyone else on their schedule, but was 0-3 vs Miami, including regular season games, 1 home/1 road.  

And a crazy, all-time upset in '83. 

Is this really a whole big thing?  The location of the bowl? 
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #122 on: June 26, 2020, 07:56:25 AM »
SEC teams that venture north do so in September because that is when B1G teams have OOC games.

It also is true that SEC teams like having a muffin just before their year ending rivalry game.  B1G teams usually don't quality.

A cherry muffin with chocolate icing.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #123 on: June 26, 2020, 08:04:57 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on June 26, 2020, 07:56:25 AM
A cherry muffin 
Hey now this isn't the Hotties thread
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MaximumSam

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #124 on: June 26, 2020, 08:06:35 AM »
In my dreams I see home field advantage in the playoffs.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #125 on: June 26, 2020, 08:23:56 AM »
The stats on home field advantage are less than I would have thought it would be.  Ftbobs did a great study on point differential in conference games home and away, and the HFA was 3-6 points, least in the SEC which was a surprise.

Obviously, that is diluted further in ANY bowl game.

But HFA in a playoff game say between 8 and 1 would be on the high end, usually, in addition to the "normal" spread.  An 8th ranked team playing at Alabama or Clemson or LSU or Ohio State would obviously not win very often, maybe 10% of the time?
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