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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2268 on: December 19, 2024, 05:14:20 PM »
I'll just put up with my V-8 and 18 gallon tank and 500 miles of range

gas is cheap - $2.33/gallon earlier this week

$40 for 500 miles
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2269 on: December 19, 2024, 05:19:31 PM »
But... I also know how the pace of engineering goes, and what was true when I was in my teens and early 20s are probably now "solved problems". 

...I assume the engineering and reliability teams at these companies have data that says it's ok. 

 ...But I'm more inclined to think that the designers think the failure rate is low enough to not be a concern.


That may well be.  I just get skeptical, knowing there are a lot of planned obsolescence business strategies out there.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2270 on: December 19, 2024, 05:23:23 PM »
I'll just put up with my V-8 and 18 gallon tank and 500 miles of range

gas is cheap - $2.33/gallon earlier this week

$40 for 500 miles
Guys who buy $60K+ sports cars as their "toy" when they have another daily driver probably aren't that worried about gas cost savings. 

I'm no different. If I was worried about the monetary effect of gas cost savings, the proceeds of selling my toy (the Jeep) would buy a LOT of gallons of gas for the Flex... But instead I'm doing things to the Jeep to not only continue owning it, but to make it LESS gas efficient... I.e. driving it with the top off, lifting it, and soon to be adding weight to it with new fenders/bumpers/side steps, and then adding significant fuel efficiency drain when I put the big 35" tires on after all that...

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2271 on: December 19, 2024, 05:26:26 PM »
I'll just be happy if, by the time I go to buy my next vehicle, there's still a fully gas engine to be had that is reasonably affordable. 

I'd really like another truck, I've been without one for several years now.  They are way more expensive now than when I bought one last time.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2272 on: December 19, 2024, 05:35:24 PM »

That may well be.  I just get skeptical, knowing there are a lot of planned obsolescence business strategies out there. 
I'd venture that the ratio between laymen claiming some business practices is a "planned obsolescence" strategy and it actually being the case (vs not) is probably 99:1. 

It only takes one lemon to ruin a customer for life. Just ask @utee94 about his Toyota Camry Solara experience. 

Assuming everything is "planned obsolescence" is an insult to the engineers working their ASSES off to make the best products they possibly can. Are there business constraints on how much reliability you can design into something? Always.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2273 on: December 19, 2024, 05:57:06 PM »
Well, the alternatives are our engineers are getting worse at their jobs. 

My grandparents owned multiple appliances that lasted decades.  I happen to know a lot of their peers had the same thing, stuff just lasted forever.  My appliances last maybe 10-12 years, and it seems to be relatively common with people I know.

Interestingly, where I first heard the term was from a mechanical engineer buddy of mine who was way into cars as a hobby.  He claimed to me years ago that the technology existed to build a car that would last for decades with minimal maintenance, but nobody would build it because they need more frequent customers.  Don't know if he's right or wrong--I don't have his expertise or other biases--but it had the ring of truth to it.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2274 on: December 19, 2024, 06:53:17 PM »
Well, the alternatives are our engineers are getting worse at their jobs. 

My grandparents owned multiple appliances that lasted decades.  I happen to know a lot of their peers had the same thing, stuff just lasted forever.  My appliances last maybe 10-12 years, and it seems to be relatively common with people I know.

Interestingly, where I first heard the term was from a mechanical engineer buddy of mine who was way into cars as a hobby.  He claimed to me years ago that the technology existed to build a car that would last for decades with minimal maintenance, but nobody would build it because they need more frequent customers.  Don't know if he's right or wrong--I don't have his expertise or other biases--but it had the ring of truth to it. 
That's excellent anecdotal evidence. It's also bullshit. 

You know why the Maytag appliance repairman commercials way back in the day, where the Maytag repairman was constantly bored because Maytag didn't break, was so powerful? Because appliances failed CONSTANTLY and paying repairmen to come repair your appliances was a regular occurrence for regular folks. When was the last time you called an appliance repair man? (Note: this is a difficult thing of course, as being an engineer myself I just repair my own--I had a bit of a "lemon" dryer that I was into about 4 times before it needed to be replaced, swapping heating elements, and at one point swapping the drive belt and a seized glide wheel--it was eventually a motor death that caused me to replace it. I had a microwave die where a replacement control board from eBay brought it back. IMHO being your own appliance repairman is still sometimes important...)

As it relates to cars, have we not seen a tremendous improvement in automobile reliability over the last several decades? When was the last time that you had to do a "tune up" like we did 30 years ago? One of the issues actually facing the automobile industry is that cars are too damn reliable and there isn't as much turnover as there used to be. They don't require the same level of maintenance they used to. Don't you remember your dad back in the old days having to constantly check and adjust things on the car to keep it running? How much of that do you personally do today? 

Back in those days, stuff didn't just "last forever" and the stuff that did required constant maintenance to be able to last forever. 

And the engineers are dealing with a lot of additional constraints. Now you won't buy a washer/dryer that doesn't have 17 distinct cycle modes for whatever you want, when your mom was dealing with a washer/dryer that had "on or off". Now we're dealing with cars that have extensive computer controls so they make 300+ hp while actually making more than 8 mpg, so things have gotten increasingly more complex. And yet we STILL see improvements in reliability. 

There's an issue in our modern world where people are buying disposable trash from the lowest cost country manufacturer because they can just look at the internet and buy based purely on cost. That's where "planned obsolescence" makes sense--you don't care if what you sell is trash because you just want the sale. But that situation diminishes the farther you go up the price ladder, to the point where buying appliances or vehicles, people actually care a little bit about quality/reliability. 

SFBadger96

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2275 on: December 19, 2024, 07:03:47 PM »
As I understand it, a big reason for the massively improved consumer mechancial goods (including cars) is precision engineering. Basically, the ability to use computers (and other tools) to build devices to a much higher (more precise) spec. That's why in the last 25 or so years our consumer goods (including cars) have become so much more reliable. And car engines, in particular, have become so much more efficient.

Now, there is more complexity to many of these things, and complex things often run into problems, and there are more parts that are made of plastic compounds, which often wear out sooner than the metal components used in the old days. So, yes, your 2024 washer and dryer probably won't last as a unit as long as the 1970 washer and dryer, but during their operative life they will perform much better, and break down far less. The other part of the equation that has changed is that the relative cost of the machines to the cost of labor (i.e., the repair person) has come way down. It's not that you can't repair the machines, it's that for the cost of the repair, you can buy a new one (or very close to it). So why keep your 2009 washer, when for about 30% more than the cost of repair, you can have a 2025 washer that cleans better, uses less water and electricity (or gas), and is faster?

And, if you have it in you, a lot of the things that wear out (heating coils, springs, spindles, even circuit boards) are pretty easy to replace. I've replaced the heating coil in my dryer three times now ($15 part). Works great. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2276 on: December 20, 2024, 06:44:59 AM »
Usually start stop can be turned off.
Not permanently disabled. Impossible, at least on the MB.

I shut it off manually as soon as I get in the car.

The most violent thing you can do to an engine?

Start it.

U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2278 on: December 20, 2024, 08:17:42 AM »
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2279 on: December 20, 2024, 08:21:57 AM »
My own experience is that appliances and cars are far more reliable and maintenance free than in 1980.

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2280 on: December 20, 2024, 08:24:40 AM »
not mine

washers, dryers, refrigerators fail more often
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2281 on: December 20, 2024, 08:25:55 AM »
Dishwashers too.  I'm on my third one since we moved into this house 13 years ago.  So disappointing.

 

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