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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1750 on: May 28, 2024, 11:46:59 AM »
Cars and trucks inherently have to have different battery packs, at minimum because they come in such different sizes.  Maybe government could force the issue and only "allow" say five or six different battery packs.  So, then the "filling station" has to have 5-6 times however many on hand, most of which are being charged, and some of which are charged and ready to go.  That could mean 60 packs or more?

Then you have to have common connections of course.  And those connections conduct a lot of current and need to be pretty well shielded.  The packs are quite heavy of course, so they'd also need some kind of very heavy release and secure brackets.  

I suspect inductive charging would be more practicable, even though that too has many challenges.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1751 on: May 28, 2024, 11:50:17 AM »
Then another issue is how battery technology is progressing, and will progress for some time, no doubt more slowly as things get pretty good.  But at some point, the "new" kind will be attractive, just as some new automotive engine comes out.  Then you'd need that many more battery packs at the charging/swap station.

I think we're fairly close to the point that fast charging 20% to 80% doesn't take all that much time anyway, and that's the way to go.  As noted, MAYBE fleets can swap batteries.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1752 on: May 28, 2024, 11:50:35 AM »
Cars and trucks inherently have to have different battery packs, at minimum because they come in such different sizes.  Maybe government could force the issue and only "allow" say five or six different battery packs.  So, then the "filling station" has to have 5-6 times however many on hand, most of which are being charged, and some of which are charged and ready to go.  That could mean 60 packs or more?

Then you have to have common connections of course.  And those connections conduct a lot of current and need to be pretty well shielded.  The packs are quite heavy of course, so they'd also need some kind of very heavy release and secure brackets. 

I suspect inductive charging would be more practicable, even though that too has many challenges.
They have many different engines. Why would batteries be different?
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1753 on: May 28, 2024, 11:51:05 AM »
They have many different engines. Why would batteries be different?
They only would if forced by government edict.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1754 on: May 28, 2024, 11:53:25 AM »
Cars and trucks inherently have to have different battery packs, at minimum because they come in such different sizes.  Maybe government could force the issue and only "allow" say five or six different battery packs.  So, then the "filling station" has to have 5-6 times however many on hand, most of which are being charged, and some of which are charged and ready to go.  That could mean 60 packs or more?

Then you have to have common connections of course.  And those connections conduct a lot of current and need to be pretty well shielded.  The packs are quite heavy of course, so they'd also need some kind of very heavy release and secure brackets. 

I suspect inductive charging would be more practicable, even though that too has many challenges.
Yeah, I envision it more like an oil change situation rather than pulling up to the pump.  

I'm probably wrong, but we'll see in 20-30 years or so.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1755 on: May 28, 2024, 12:16:54 PM »
They only would if forced by government edict.
I'm a NO on that.
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FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1756 on: May 28, 2024, 12:19:38 PM »
purchasing power will eventually decide, if the government stays out of it.

perhaps the American big 3 could get together and set a "standard" that could grab market share and drive out Tesla and/or others that refused to conform
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1757 on: May 28, 2024, 12:21:37 PM »
Currently, one competitive edge is battery design.  I don't know why that would change.  ICE vehicles have different engines as an effort to present buyers with some apparent competitive edge.

Anyway, the various difficulties have been laid out, and I think they are largely insuperable, fleet being a possible exception.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1758 on: May 28, 2024, 12:52:35 PM »
I'm just suggesting cars in the same class would be virtual fleets.  

If the Tesla Y, Rav4, Escape, CRV, and Sportage all utilize the same battery, well there you go.  You have a large-volume fleet.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1759 on: May 28, 2024, 01:19:54 PM »
I'm just suggesting cars in the same class would be virtual fleets. 

If the Tesla Y, Rav4, Escape, CRV, and Sportage all utilize the same battery, well there you go.  You have a large-volume fleet.
What if Hyundai, Chevy, Ford, Honda and Toyota all used Mercedes-Benz engines?

Impossible to answer. It's never going to happen, and it shouldn't.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1760 on: May 28, 2024, 01:45:34 PM »
Fair points.

#1 - eventually, someone will "win" and be the major producer of the most-used type (not best, just most-used).  They'll be the most popular for a time and that winning company will fight to extend that time for as many years/decades as they can.

#2 - once something is the standard and "good enough" they stifle innovation anyway, as they do now with all things.  Once a company "wins," they have no motive to change the status quo. 


I'm just looking down the road and figuring companies will do what they always do. 
#1 - no, this is you going down your trope that capitalism always ends in monopoly w/o government stopping it. That's not borne out by history. More commonly with technology, it's companies racing towards "better" and continually one-upping each other trying to gain an edge that none ever hold for very long. 

#2 - also not true. Again, I live this daily. Our industry is heavily standardized, where standards make our products and our competitors' products interchangeable. Where the competitive differentiation between vendors is the capacity of data the products can hold, and the reliability and cost of the products. An industry that has become an oligopoly (only 3 worldwide companies, 2 of which have >80% combined market share) and I can absolutely bore you to tears with all the innovation that we have done, and are continuing to do. Because if we sleep on innovation, the other main competitor will take our share. If they sleep, we'll take theirs. Nobody is standing still. We're trying to exploit every technological edge we can, every single day. Because the competition is too. Being 6 months behind reaching the next capacity point could mean hundreds of millions of dollars difference in revenue over several quarters because the competitor has something you don't have. 

You say these things but you have no evidence. It's a fundamentally flawed understanding of how technology and the free market operate. It's a constant race to build a better mousetrap. If you don't build a better mousetrap, someone else will, and they'll get the mousetrap sales. Let that go on too long, and you'll find yourself out of the mousetrap business entirely. 

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1761 on: May 28, 2024, 01:46:29 PM »
they don't all use Mercedes engines but they all use fossil fuel burning engines

I don't know why Florida has to ban fake meat
I also don't know why Cali has to ban gas engines

probably a religious thing ;)
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1762 on: May 28, 2024, 01:51:08 PM »
The place for standardization is in charging connectors and protocols. 

Just as today there is standardization in the size and shape of fuel filler on an ICEV so you can get gas at any station you pull up to. 

Thankfully, that standardization is starting to happen, which is a positive force for BEV adoption. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1763 on: May 28, 2024, 01:54:29 PM »
I also don't know why Cali has to ban gas engin
As noted, Calif really isn't doing this.  The "mandate" relates only to new vehicles sold, and includes both BEVs and PHEVs, and my guess is if the is not delayed, we'll see 70% or so PHEVs being sold.  And most cars there will remain ICE powered.

 

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