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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1694 on: May 22, 2024, 02:11:51 PM »
I have room on my panel to add a 220 V circuit. But do you need that for a plug-in hybrid?
No. Typical charge on 110V is about 3-4 miles of range per hour. If your PHEV has say 40 miles of range, you should get roughly a full charge overnight. And if you don't on some random night due to circumstances, it's a hybrid so there's no range anxiety. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1695 on: May 22, 2024, 03:55:11 PM »
The Equinox EV is launching with higher-priced models that start at roughly $43,000 to $51,100 (without any incentives). The entry-level Equinox LT model, starting at about $35,000, is expected later this year.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1696 on: May 22, 2024, 04:02:57 PM »
No. Typical charge on 110V is about 3-4 miles of range per hour. If your PHEV has say 40 miles of range, you should get roughly a full charge overnight. And if you don't on some random night due to circumstances, it's a hybrid so there's no range anxiety.
Does not seem remotely close to worth it.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1697 on: May 22, 2024, 04:37:54 PM »
No. Typical charge on 110V is about 3-4 miles of range per hour. If your PHEV has say 40 miles of range, you should get roughly a full charge overnight. And if you don't on some random night due to circumstances, it's a hybrid so there's no range anxiety.
I'm a somewhat experienced residential electrician but this might be more your area:

I've seen where they can be charged with 120V or 240V with the 240V charging quicker.

Aside from speed of charge, would there be any differences worth noting?

  • Would the cost be the same? I'm guessing it would because a KW is a KW and whether you charge in eight hours at 120V or two hours at 240V you'd need the same total but am I missing anything? Maybe if you had peak/off peak rates you could more easily manipulate that with a 240V charger but that is mostly not a residential thing.
  • Is one better for the long-term health and life of the batteries?
  • Anything else?


847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1698 on: May 22, 2024, 04:41:10 PM »
I'm a somewhat experienced residential electrician but this might be more your area:

I've seen where they can be charged with 120V or 240V with the 240V charging quicker.

Aside from speed of charge, would there be any differences worth noting?

  • Would the cost be the same? I'm guessing it would because a KW is a KW and whether you charge in eight hours at 120V or two hours at 240V you'd need the same total but am I missing anything? Maybe if you had peak/off peak rates you could more easily manipulate that with a 240V charger but that is mostly not a residential thing.
  • Is one better for the long-term health and life of the batteries?
  • Anything else?


Yep. Don't buy a plug-in car. :)
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utee94

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1699 on: May 22, 2024, 04:46:18 PM »
I'm a somewhat experienced residential electrician but this might be more your area:

I've seen where they can be charged with 120V or 240V with the 240V charging quicker.

Aside from speed of charge, would there be any differences worth noting?

  • Would the cost be the same? I'm guessing it would because a KW is a KW and whether you charge in eight hours at 120V or two hours at 240V you'd need the same total but am I missing anything? Maybe if you had peak/off peak rates you could more easily manipulate that with a 240V charger but that is mostly not a residential thing.
  • Is one better for the long-term health and life of the batteries?
  • Anything else?


I suppose the electrical components would be optimized toward one or the other, so there could be inefficiencies like impedance mismatching and additional line losses induced by the non-optimal method.  Of course, some of this could be mitigated with computerization and smart electronics along the electrical charging path that would adjust for the differences.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1700 on: May 22, 2024, 05:02:29 PM »
I suppose the electrical components would be optimized toward one or the other, so there could be inefficiencies like impedance mismatching and additional line losses induced by the non-optimal method.  Of course, some of this could be mitigated with computerization and smart electronics along the electrical charging path that would adjust for the differences.
See, this is why I asked the engineers here.  As a "somewhat experienced residential electrician" I can easily run the line and install the plug for either 120V or 240V but this stuff is beyond what I've ever needed to know.  I would want to know that if I had a PHEV because I think it would make a material difference over the life of the car.  Ie, it probably isn't material for a single charge where the cost is going to be minimal:

Per Kelly Blue Book:
Charging a "large battery" costs:
  • $11.55 in Idaho (cheapest state unless I missed one)
  • $15.25 in Texas where @utee94 lives
  • $15.83 in Florida where @847badgerfan lives
  • $15.98 in Illinois where @847badgerfan and @betarhoalphadelta are from
  • $16.53 US Average
  • $16.67 in Ohio where I live
  • $31.55 in California where @betarhoalphadelta lives 
  • $33.41 in Rhode Island (most expensive state unless I missed one)

For a single charge I would guess that the efficiency differences are more-or-less nominal.  Even a 10% penalty in Rhode Island is only going to alter your cost by around $3.34.  However, if you own this car for 10 years and charge it around twice a week that is pushing 1,000 charges so that 10% difference would be around a thousand dollars in Idaho, around $1,500-$1,700 in Texas/Florida/Illinois/Ohio, and north of $3,000 in places like California and Rhode Island.  

Yep. Don't buy a plug-in car. :)
LoL, I get the sentiment.  OTOH, I think that the PHEV has a lot more short-term potential than straight up electric.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1701 on: May 22, 2024, 05:03:28 PM »
A PHEV could be "worth it" in some situations, probably not most.  They care a $5-7K upcharge over an equivalent regular hybrid.  They do usually offer more power/acceleration.


Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1702 on: May 22, 2024, 05:10:33 PM »
Charging a PHEV all the way is only about a kWhr.  If you charge at home, it's minimal in terms of cost, average of 16 cents.  Say you drive 15 miles to work, and then 15 home, that costs you 15 cents in electricity, call it 32 cents in CA.  An equivalent hybrid would get you there and back with a gallon of gas, probably less, so call it $3.50-$4.00 in CA.

You might use it on trips 3-4 times a year where the gas mileage would be about what the hybrid gets.  So, you drive 30 miles to work and back, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, that's 7,200 miles which might cost you 200 gallons of gas with a hybrid or $900 (in CA) at $4.50.

The electricity costs in CA would be about $80.  Assume you save $800 a year over 6-7 years you about cover the nut.  Or you could buy a hybrid and put the extra $6 K in some CD at 5% interest.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1703 on: May 22, 2024, 05:38:28 PM »
Does not seem remotely close to worth it.
Well if you rarely drive more than 40 miles a day, it can be.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1704 on: May 22, 2024, 05:41:04 PM »
I'm a somewhat experienced residential electrician but this might be more your area:

I've seen where they can be charged with 120V or 240V with the 240V charging quicker.

Aside from speed of charge, would there be any differences worth noting?

  • Would the cost be the same? I'm guessing it would because a KW is a KW and whether you charge in eight hours at 120V or two hours at 240V you'd need the same total but am I missing anything? Maybe if you had peak/off peak rates you could more easily manipulate that with a 240V charger but that is mostly not a residential thing.
  • Is one better for the long-term health and life of the batteries?
  • Anything else?

Slower charge rates are generally better for the batteries.

I understand that with the longer range EVs, many offer the ability to schedule your charging, i.e. you plug in when you get home for the day and it shows down your charge rate to be ready at say 7AM rather than charging as far as it can.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1705 on: May 22, 2024, 05:44:48 PM »
I think it's close to worth it, but it depends on one's driving habits and where one lives, a lot.

We don't drive much in a year, maybe 7,000 miles, so for us, the cost of fuel is not a big deal.  And we're getting around 33 mpg combined using regular which costs about $3.20 here at Costco, a  bit under $700 a year for us with a small "SUV".  There is a plug in hybrid of the same model available in a few states (not mine) that costs about $6 K extra if you can find one.

The rather amazing thing to me is that PHEVs qualify under the 2035 CA mandate.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1706 on: May 22, 2024, 06:00:57 PM »

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1707 on: May 23, 2024, 06:27:24 AM »
Not electric, but vehicle-related:  while in LA, I saw a bright orange Challenger that looked like the General Lee from the Dukes of Hazzard, but instead of a 01 on the side, it had a 09 and "Joe Cool" instead of "General Lee."

Very cool Bengals fan.
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