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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1204 on: December 15, 2023, 09:58:32 AM »
Ed Zachary 

5 or 6 years of "could " isn't enough to motivate me
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1205 on: December 15, 2023, 10:01:02 AM »
Nor any of us here, but it's useful to go through the exercise and see how they could work in certain situations.

THen we're all informed.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1206 on: December 15, 2023, 10:13:00 AM »
I'm informed. I've done the research and I know enough to state that it doesn't make sense for us.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1207 on: December 15, 2023, 10:28:06 AM »
The question, for me, is whether it will make sense for a lot of folks any time soonish.

The next vehicle I buy could well be our last, which might be true for several others here.  I think my wife wants one next year.  Bummer.  I'll look at the Honda, Toyota, BMW, and Hyundai hybrid versions of the "CR-V", maybe another one, all around $40 K, which is rather astounding, to me.  Keeping the GTI would be my preference, I really like that car.

I'm going to delay until she gets more insistent.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1208 on: December 15, 2023, 10:33:30 AM »
Volvo CEO says what lack of EV demand? Orders remain strong (electrek.co)

The thing is, of course, orders can be strong if supply is somewhat limited.  An over supply would mean orders are not strong enough.  The issue is not really that orders are down, they aren't, it's that they have not kept up with new supply.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1209 on: December 15, 2023, 10:41:51 AM »
It's not just financial. If it was financial, we'd see a lot more Hondas and Fords and Hyundais on the road and a lot fewer BMWs and Mercs and Porsches. 

If it was just financial, Badge wouldn't be driving a fancy-ass Merc and lusting over a Porsche Macan. He owns vehicles like that because he likes them and has the means

If it was just financial, Lexus and Acura (and Lincoln and Cadillac) wouldn't exist. They're just an upbadged Toyota/Honda/Ford/Chevy. But they do. 

I'm very utilitarian when it comes to cars. But even for me when family changes forced me to move up from the truck, I bought a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. Did I really "need" the Rubicon model? No. But I wanted it. When I got divorced and didn't have access to a family minivan and needed something larger than the Jeep, I bought a Ford Flex Limited because I wanted the upgraded sound system and the panoramic sunroof in the back seats (and because my soon-to-be FIL had an SEL model and I wanted the higher level trim). So even as a utilitarian I've spent up for unnecessary things. 

There is an emotional component to buying a vehicle. For some people, there's value and they WANT an EV. Maybe they want to be seen as ahead of the curve. Or maybe they view Tesla as "cool" in the way that Apple folks think Apple is "cool" and not just another damn phone. Or maybe they think they're doing something good for the environment. 

Or maybe they just hate filling their car with gas every week or so and like the idea that their car has a "full tank" every single morning they wake up because they plug it into their charger when they get home the previous day. It's like your cellphone. Plug it in at night and it's ready to go in the morning. People make it sound like charging an EV is the equivalent of trying to find an outlet to charge your cellphone, in a crowded airport, in 2012. Yeah, if charging an EV was like that, it'd be hell lol. 

As I've said, when my next vehicle purchase comes up, an EV is within my realm of consideration. The financial bit does weigh highly for me with vehicles, but as I mentioned above, I up-spent for a more capable off-roading vehicle than I needed for someone who almost never goes off-road (and hasn't been anywhere the "Rubicon" package mattered), and up-spent for a more full-featured trim package than I needed in the Flex. So if it comes down to it and I decide I really WANT an EV? I have the means and I'll buy it. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1210 on: December 15, 2023, 10:47:53 AM »
It's financial for a lot of folks, not for many of us here (meaning we can pretty much buy what we want within reason).

Folks do buy BMWs because of their cache', not because they are really better than a Honda.  And it is for many an emotional decision.  When I walk onto a car lot and tell a salesman I'm interested in Model Q, his first question almost without exception is "What color?".

Color, for me, is well down the list of criteria.  WELL down.  But apparently it's near the top for many.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1211 on: December 15, 2023, 11:06:58 AM »
It's financial for a lot of folks, not for many of us here (meaning we can pretty much buy what we want within reason).

Folks do buy BMWs because of their cache', not because they are really better than a Honda.  And it is for many an emotional decision.  When I walk onto a car lot and tell a salesman I'm interested in Model Q, his first question almost without exception is "What color?".

Color, for me, is well down the list of criteria.  WELL down.  But apparently it's near the top for many.
Yeah, and it's emotional for a lot of folks too. You've all heard my complaints about leasing. Not that leasing is a bad idea; there are instances where it makes sense. But that too many people lease vehicles so that they can drive something nicer than they could afford to buy, and THAT is a bad idea. 

Think of say, a new college grad going off to her first job, making $38K/year. She wants to drive a cute little 3-series BMW. She can't afford it, of course. She COULD afford a 3-year used Civic with low miles, completely pay it off in 3 years, and have an asset. But the lease deal BMW is throwing out means that she can pay just a bit more monthly than the 3-year repayment cost of the Honda, so suddenly the lease wins out. Emotions >> finances.

There are a LOT of people in this world that think this way. They want the best car that they can get for the maximum monthly payment they can afford, and if that means it's just a lease and there's no path to ownership, well as long as the monthly nut works, they'll do it. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1212 on: December 15, 2023, 11:10:45 AM »
If it was just financial, Badge wouldn't be driving a fancy-ass Merc and lusting over a Porsche Macan. He owns vehicles like that because he likes them and has the means.
That's a Cayenne I showed. Macan is too small.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1213 on: December 15, 2023, 11:11:59 AM »
That's a Cayenne I showed. Macan is too small.
Fair enough. I knew it wasn't a Taycan :57:

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1214 on: December 15, 2023, 11:54:53 AM »
I get the sense that it's not OK to simply say you just don't want an EV.

I just don't want an EV.

Even if I could afford one--which I can't--I wouldn't buy one because I don't see the point when the technology that powers every vehicle I've owned is still perfectly fine and infrastructure is far more widely available and affordable at all points.  I'm not much of a change for the sake of change guy.  Without a good reason to move me out of my current paradigm into a new one, I just want to drive whatever versions of ICEs I can afford.  I'm not actively against EVs, but I'm unlikely to ever see their point for me unless and until ICEs start becoming problematic for me and EVs offer a solution.  

Y'all mentioned an emotional component.  That probably is in there for me somewhere as well.  I used to work in the oil and gas industry and I know tons of people who make solid livings in it.  People who don't have the education to go start a new career and remain at a nice, livable income they currently have.  Like the railroad, refineries, things like that, the O&G industry employees a lot of "regular people" and allows families a good living.  I worry that EVs could ultimately eat into domestic (or even foreign) production enough to begin negatively affecting those jobs.  The industry already has enough ups and downs for those folks to weather, I'd hate to see something added to those swings, or certainly cause less jobs permanently.  I have no idea how likely that is.  I just know I don't want to see it.  I also remain unconvinced that EVs are a net positive for global warming or that it's even an imminent threat that requires a new mode of transportation.  

To sum up, I just don't want an EV.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1215 on: December 15, 2023, 12:14:00 PM »
I would want an EV at some point, I suspect, they do have significant advantages.  The "dis" parts are too great now, for me, that could change.  I think the range most have is OK, but recharging is not for various reasons noted.  The cost is not OK.  Expense of operation is good.  Handling and acceleration are generally quite good.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1216 on: December 15, 2023, 12:19:50 PM »
I would want an EV at some point, I suspect, they do have significant advantages.  The "dis" parts are too great now, for me, that could change.  I think the range most have is OK, but recharging is not for various reasons noted.  The cost is not OK.  Expense of operation is good.  Handling and acceleration are generally quite good.
Yeah, the recharging thing is a problem for you based on your living situation. If you (or anyone) has to rely on third-party charging for 100% of your usage, the electricity rates you'll be charged are WAY higher than if you have your own home and a home charger. It ends up screwing anyone who lives in an apartment or condo complex at this point. 

It's one of the things that would stop me if I were in the market right now. I don't own this home and I'm not paying to install a charger in my landlord's house... And he's a cheap bastard and I'm sure wouldn't pay for it himself (even if it might help him get higher rents in the future). I'm hoping the real estate market makes it possible that I'll have my own house before my next car purchase. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1217 on: December 15, 2023, 12:24:32 PM »
Public charging systems that charge based on kWh average anywhere between $0.30 and $0.60 per kWh compared to $0.16 per kWh at home.

An EV needs about 33 kWhr to go 100 miles.  You can see that at 60 cents, the thing is way off the mark, $20 for 100 miles of range.  

That would be 3 gallons of gas in my GTI on the highway, 4 gallons around town, at $3/gallon for premium at Costco.  You HAVE to charge at home (mostly) for it to work at all.

 

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