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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1190 on: December 14, 2023, 06:14:59 PM »
Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2023, 05:54:29 PM
Well, that's the eternal problem.  The only way to know if it's bad business is to wait until the future gets here and see how it went.  If I lose a billion+ for 9 years, and then on my tenth make tens of billions, well, I'm a success who weathered the necessary storm.  If it never materializes, I'm a goat who's run off by the board for not knowing when to cut my losses. 

There just always a conversation to be had about producing something not many were asking for.  Sometimes that ultimately goes very well.  A lot of times it doesn't. 

But again, we're not in a real free market here, where consumers and producers are doing whatever they want.  Just as the current model skews basic economics with subsidies, so does environmental awareness campaigns and popular dogmas skew what people "want."  i.e., John Doe may never care a lick about EV's, but maybe he cares about reducing global warming and then decides investing in an EV is a good goal. 
Well, there is a way to manage those predictions. If you think EVs are bad business, you can short Ford / Chevy stock. Or you can merely not invest in them and invest in automakers that aren't chasing EVs. Or in a different sector entirely. I don't invest in Tesla for the various reasons I've said where I think they're overvalued trying to present themselves as a "tech" company with the resultant P/E multiples,, instead of a car company. The market is buying it (for now); I'm not. I don't short them because I don't have that level of risk tolerance, but I'm not going to buy their stock. 

I don't want to come across as some BEV stan here... I'm in a lot of ways arguing Devil's advocate as I see both sides but most of you are only arguing one... So if I see what are bad or non-credible arguments, I'm going to call them out. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1191 on: December 14, 2023, 07:21:35 PM »
Is good. 
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MikeDeTiger

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1192 on: December 15, 2023, 07:00:42 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on December 14, 2023, 06:14:59 PM
I don't want to come across as some BEV stan here... I'm in a lot of ways arguing Devil's advocate as I see both sides but most of you are only arguing one... So if I see what are bad or non-credible arguments, I'm going to call them out.

Oh, I don't really have a "side," and I have no idea how it will all play out in the long term.  EV's make zero sense for me personally, and also for nearly everybody in my sphere, and I'm not sure how much that's likely to change.....so maybe that's my "side."  That obviously has no bearing on whether or not manufacturers will ultimately be successful.  A successful product doesn't need my purchase, and a lot of them don't even need most people's purchases.  
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847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1193 on: December 15, 2023, 07:46:25 AM »
Saw one of these on the road yesterday. It's what I want.

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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1194 on: December 15, 2023, 07:56:43 AM »
We're discussing this to try and make sense of it, and predict likely futures.  None of us seem to have a side.  I think we'd all be fine with EVs if they were the better type for us personally, but so far, none of us have one.  Most of us MIGHT have one someday.  The exchange is good for figuring out when that day COULD happen.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1195 on: December 15, 2023, 08:13:46 AM »
Back in the day, my wife leased her cars three years.  One was coming up to end, and she didn't want to buy it (it was a nice car).  OK, I had a pretty nice Caddy CTS a bit long in the teeth, so I loaned it to her to use.  I still needed something to run about town, so I used a bunch of GM Mastercard dollars to buy a Chevy Sonic hatchback.  It was a pretty decent car, cheap with $3,000 off the top, and I got an OK deal on it.  I drove it a while, I was still working.

I'm thinking today, I COULD have bought a Chevy Bolt.  I didn't drive very far in a day, maybe 30 miles.  We had a garage and I could have put in a 220v line if not a main charger deal.  I've said before, were I in this situation today I'd look at the Bolt as a possibly viable option for me.

One issue of course is that I didn't drive very far, so gas savings would have been minimal, the 30 miles needed about one gallon a day at $2 a gallon.  Around here regular is about $2.50 today which is really cheap.

So, even then, it would make sense.  Even today for us if we wanted a second car, it wouldn't make sense.  We could get by with an EV today except for trips and I could rent something for the few driving trips we do each year.  Maybe a PHEV would make sense, but in my view currently, the standard hybrid is the way for us to go.

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847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1196 on: December 15, 2023, 08:46:29 AM »
I get the sense that it's not OK to simply say you just don't want an EV.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1197 on: December 15, 2023, 08:46:53 AM »
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1198 on: December 15, 2023, 08:50:31 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 15, 2023, 08:46:29 AM
I get the sense that it's not OK to simply say you just don't want an EV.
Sure, in a sense, you are right.  This is the "social signaling" we see around us fairly often.  The same is true I think for showing one isn't a racist by marching in some BLM protest, or cheering for "Palestine", or marching for climate change, etc. etc. etc.  There is a large component of knee jerk reactionism for some people.  Whatever is on "their side" is what they support, few of them ever think "Well, OK I'm for this, but not that."  March to the same drummer.

I think it's also true on both sides, I've seen some disparage EVs well beyond any discussion of their attributes, calling the "golf carts" etc. and saying "I'll never buy one, period."  All that, to me, is signaling also.  This is MY SIDE.

To think through a thing and note positives and negatives is more nuanced, and difficult.  It's easier just to follow whatever YOUR SIDE tells you.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1199 on: December 15, 2023, 08:59:58 AM »
My mind says it doesn't make sense for us to have an EV. I've done the math, and it just doesn't work. Also, I LIKE how the performance ICE's sound and feel.

As an aside, we are in the process of trading in our Evolution golf cart for a gas one - <3 years in and the battery is failing.
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FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1200 on: December 15, 2023, 09:00:07 AM »
It's a simple financial decision for me. 
Don't like wasting money. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1201 on: December 15, 2023, 09:15:12 AM »
It's financial for most folks, including me, along with meeting other needs like space etc.

At this point, an EV is feasible if you don't drive much, and only around town, but then you don't save much relative to gasoline.  We aren't there yet, in my view.

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FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1202 on: December 15, 2023, 09:45:56 AM »
I'm not sure you can save much money regardless of how many miles you drive. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #1203 on: December 15, 2023, 09:54:40 AM »
I think eventually it could pay out, down the road, for some, depending on gas prices.  "Could".  There are a lot of variables.  But let's say it does in six years, is it worth the known problems?
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