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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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utee94

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #868 on: July 28, 2023, 09:05:54 AM »

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #869 on: July 28, 2023, 11:56:07 AM »
What Happens When a Rivian EV Runs Out of Battery Charge? (motortrend.com)


This is a bit long but rather "amusing" for those of us who don't have an EV.  The gist of it is DO NOT run the batteries all the way down, and I had not know the Rivian had two 12 volt batteries to power accessories which are critical at times.



FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #870 on: July 28, 2023, 12:18:23 PM »
it's worst than running my chevy out of gasoline
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #871 on: July 28, 2023, 12:20:18 PM »
I think future EV tow trucks will have to have a large battery on board to charge up dead EVs.

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #872 on: July 28, 2023, 12:22:47 PM »
if you're already there with the tow truck, why not tow them to a supercharger?  of home to their garage charger?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #873 on: July 28, 2023, 12:26:12 PM »
It would be cheaper to juice them up with 20 miles range so they can drive off, I think, and you wouldn't need a tow truck, just a truck or van with a decent battery.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #874 on: July 28, 2023, 01:01:12 PM »
What Happens When a Rivian EV Runs Out of Battery Charge? (motortrend.com)

This is a bit long but rather "amusing" for those of us who don't have an EV.  The gist of it is DO NOT run the batteries all the way down, and I had not know the Rivian had two 12 volt batteries to power accessories which are critical at times.
Yeah, and this is one source of trepidation for EV adoption. I want to make sure a company has gotten through the learning curve before I'll buy their product. Obviously Tesla went through that learning curve. No did Nissan with the Leaf if you've heard of the early battery management problems they had. 

BTW I often liken this to HDDs and SSDs. In the early SSD days, companies didn't understand the failure modes and how to test for failures. Hence the early SSDs had TONS of problems. Everyone thought they should be more reliable b/c they had no moving parts, but the firmware is MUCH more complicated due to moving data around in ways HDD never did, so you'd have drives brick from FW bugs in ways that HDDs never really happened because we'd had 40 years of learning curve. Obviously SSDs have matured and that concern is no longer really all that significant, but in the early days they were. 

It would be cheaper to juice them up with 20 miles range so they can drive off, I think, and you wouldn't need a tow truck, just a truck or van with a decent battery.
Exactly. Years ago, when I still had my Ford Ranger, unbeknownst to me the fuel gauge failed. Once it dropped to 1/4 tank, the gauge would not register anything lower. So if you had less than 1/4 tank, you had no indication of the level. And as you'd expect, I first learned of this failure when I ran out of gas on the freeway. 

SoCal has some roving trucks to deal with these types of things to reduce traffic slowdowns from people stranded on the side of the road, and one happened to be going by. Instead of towing me to the nearest gas station (probably less than or very barely over a mile away actually), he just poured 1/2 gal of gas in my tank and I drove off to fill up. Much easier, and less time consuming for him, than trying to hook up my truck, and tow it, one mile. 

Hawkinole

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #875 on: July 28, 2023, 11:23:44 PM »
26% of Toyota sales were EVs and hybrids first half of 2023, and Toyota claims it is working on developing a battery with a 900-mile range. Toyota’s latest sales data reveals a major consumer shift is underway: ‘It’s a powerful upgrade that drives change’ (yahoo.com)

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #876 on: July 29, 2023, 07:03:22 AM »
That 26% figure would include a LOT of hybrids, not EVs.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #877 on: July 29, 2023, 07:31:38 AM »
Why Most Car Companies Don't Use Stainless Steel Bodies (jalopnik.com)
Why Most Car Companies Don't Use Stainless Steel Bodies (jalopnik.com)

Cincydawg

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FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #879 on: July 29, 2023, 08:55:00 AM »
RMIT engineers say they've tripled the energy density of cheap, rechargeable, recyclable proton flow batteries, which can now challenge commercially available lithium-ion batteries for capacity with a specific energy density of 245 Wh/kg.

That's as compared to the ~260-odd Wh/kg delivered by the lithium-ion batteries in a current Tesla Model 3 battery pack, but without using any lithium, thus avoiding a forecasted lithium squeeze, as well as geopolitically sensitive dependence on China in the battery supply chain, and all kinds of end-of-life issues.


We've covered this particular team's work before, way back in 2014, when the first proof of concept of a hydrogen-based proton flow battery was announced.

Essentially, it's a different way of using hydrogen for energy storage. The proton battery works something like a reversible fuel cell, accepting water while charging, splitting out positively-charged hydrogen ions and releasing oxygen.


In their latest paper, the RMIT researchers looked into the fundamentals of how the proton battery worked – mainly on the oxygen-side reactions – in order to formulate and test some ideas around how it might be improved. These ideas, according to the paper, included vacuum drying of the activated carbon powder prior to electrode preparation, in order to remove water in the material, mild heating of the overall cell to 70 °C during operation, and replacement of the oxygen-side gas diffusion layer (GDL) with a much thinner GDL fiber sheet.

The benefits, they say, were enormous, resulting in a proton battery capable of storing almost three times as much energy per weight as their last one – and "more than double the highest electrochemical hydrogen storage using an acidic electrolyte previously reported in the literature." At a density of 882 joules per gram, it roughly equates to 245 Wh/kg, right up there with good commercial lithium batteries currently on the market.

“Our battery has an energy-per-unit mass already comparable with commercially available lithium-ion batteries, while being much safer and better for the planet in terms of taking less resources out of the ground,” said lead researcher and RMIT Professor John Andrews in a press release.

“Our battery is also potentially capable of very fast charging," he continued. "The main resource used in our proton battery is carbon, which is abundant, available in all countries and cheap compared to the resources needed for other types of rechargeable battery such as lithium, cobalt and vanadium. There are also no end-of-life environmental challenges with a proton battery, since all components and materials can be rejuvenated, reused or recycled.”


Roundtrip efficiency is a definite bugbear for most hydrogen powertrains, where energy is effectively thrown away during electrolysis, compression/cooling, storage and at the fuel cell when converting hydrogen back into electricity. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. "Our proton battery has much lower losses than conventional hydrogen systems, making it directly comparable to lithium-ion batteries in terms of energy efficiency" said Andrews.

He clarifies further in an email: "We're targeting above 75% roundtrip energy efficiency at this stage. Yes, this will be time dependent depending on the rate of self-discharge, but we expect this can be minimised with optimal design. As you will know, this is comparable with lithium ion batteries, and much greater than conventional electrolyser/H2 gas storage/fuel cell systems (<45%)."

Still, the team is moving to commercialize the proton battery. "We are looking forward to developing this technology further in Melbourne and Italy, in partnership with Eldor Corporation, to produce a prototype battery with a storage capacity that meets the needs of a range of domestic and commercial applications," said Andrews. "The aim of this collaboration is to scale up the system from the watt to the kilowatt and ultimately to the megawatt scale."

"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Hawkinole

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #880 on: July 29, 2023, 04:45:32 PM »
That 26% figure would include a LOT of hybrids, not EVs.
A few minutes ago I read a parallel article about Ford, and the demand seems to be hybrids over EVs for now. The article further stated that there is a demand for having dual use capability not only to run the car, but to have electric outlets for appliances for uses such as operating a dorm refrigerator at a tailgate, or for charging tools, or use of electric tools at a jobsite.

Hawkinole

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #881 on: July 29, 2023, 04:55:13 PM »
Our Volkswagen ID4 Is Costing Us Pennies to Run (motortrend.com)
The cruxed of the article you linked is that it costs about $.07 per mile to operate the VW ID4.

This article says it costs about $.101 per mile to operate an internal combustion engine vehicle (ICEV) light duty vehicle, and $.09 per mile to operate a plug-in hybrid vehicle. FOTW #1190, June 14, 2021: Battery-Electric Vehicles Have Lower Scheduled Maintenance Costs than Other Light-Duty Vehicles | Department of Energy

 

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