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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #700 on: April 21, 2023, 04:11:01 PM »
I think it's manageable with some intelligent planning and load demand timing issues hashed out, which likely means it'll break the grid.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #701 on: April 21, 2023, 04:43:08 PM »
I think it's manageable with some intelligent planning and load demand timing issues hashed out, which likely means it'll break the grid.
It's California, so "intelligent planning" is certainly out of the question. That said, we really haven't had any real grid problems since the Enron days. We had a little bit during all the wildfire season a year or three back, because high winds, power lines, and ultra-drought conditions tend to lead to bad outcomes. 

The biggest problem IMHO is the "peak" problem. For EVs to really take over, there needs to be charging infrastructure for home renters and apartment-dwellers to charge overnight and balance that load. And I don't know what you can do for people who live somewhere that they only have access to on-street parking. But w/o that, they'll only be able to charge on public chargers, and aren't going to want to do that overnight. 

I.e. at my office, the parking garage that I park in has a bunch of EV chargers on the third level. EV owners who can charge at home never park there, because (from what I understand) electricity rates are higher at those chargers than at home. But those who don't have that capability have to use them, and that puts load on the grid during peak hours. Especially on hot summer days when everyone is running A/C. 

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #702 on: April 21, 2023, 05:01:57 PM »
EVs aren't really ready for low income renter types

I doubt the $7500 tax credit is worth while to most of them

need a charging converter that can be used on the 100' extension cord that can reach the curb or the alley.

what could go wrong?
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #703 on: April 21, 2023, 05:36:12 PM »
EVs aren't really ready for low income renter types
Southern California is full of high-income renter types. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #704 on: April 21, 2023, 05:58:54 PM »
Folks unable to recharge in their own domiciles would pay roughly 3x the rate to recharge at a public site.  Maybe the do it at work, or while shopping.  Probably they would be among the last to transition.  Poor folks who can barely afford a vehicle would be late adopters as well, perhaps having to buy used with batteries already down in capacity.


FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #705 on: April 21, 2023, 05:59:42 PM »
it's nutz
some of those rentals at $4-5K a month or more don't have a garage as an option
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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #706 on: April 21, 2023, 06:06:59 PM »
Tesla and EV Expert Sandy Munro: Solid State Batteries are "Kiss of Death" for Gas Cars (motortrend.com)
Tesla and EV Expert Sandy Munro: Solid State Batteries are "Kiss of Death" for Gas Cars (motortrend.com)


Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #707 on: April 21, 2023, 06:08:40 PM »
All the new apartment buildings here have internal parking AND recharging stations.  Most of the old ones do not.  There are some old condo buildings around us with zero parking, it wasn't a thing in 1927.  Places like NYC are mostly older apartment buildings with zero parking.  (One reason they tend not to own cars.)


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #708 on: April 21, 2023, 06:16:00 PM »
Tesla and EV Expert Sandy Munro: Solid State Batteries are "Kiss of Death" for Gas Cars (motortrend.com)
Tesla and EV Expert Sandy Munro: Solid State Batteries are "Kiss of Death" for Gas Cars (motortrend.com)


Eh. It's a question of economics and scale, not proving it in a lab. If the economics work out, and I'm not saying they won't since this isn't my industry, it'll happen. If they don't, it won't. 

But I've plenty nearly two decades hearing that SSD will kill off HDD, and the last decade hearing about all these wonderful things that work in the lab that are going to kill SSD. Yeah, economics and ability to scale are still the controlling factors. 

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #709 on: April 21, 2023, 06:17:54 PM »
follow the $$$

perhaps the government's new big green deal will have some freshly printed $$$ in it to hand to battery makers and the EV industry to alter the economics
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #710 on: May 08, 2023, 10:27:30 AM »
I didn't see the 60 Minutes piece, and I didn't write the below, just cribbing it from a homebrewing forum where EVs were being discussed. 

But I thought it would be interesting so I wanted to share. Could be a pretty massive place to easily and cost-effectively source lithium. 


Quote
File this under the category of "Too Good to Be True", but I'd sure like it to be. Sort of like "Free Beer," only better. The source for this came from a CBS "60 Minutes" segment broadcast last night. The statistics are what I can remember from the program and may be not entirely accurate, but if not it's because of my fading memory rather than fan-boi exaggeration.

The biggest hindrance to EVs and by extension the Green Revolution is that in some ways it isn't all that 'green'. The extraction and production of lithium, the most fundamental and sought after component for storage of ecologically clean and renewable energy, is both expensive and detrimental to the environment. It can make the strip mining of coal look good by comparison. Locations around the world where lithium is currently produced are largely unstable or unfriendly places, like China, equatorial Africa and South American jungles.

Enter the area near the California wasteland surrounding the Salton Sea, which some are now starting to call "Lithium Valley." The area has long been known for its geologically active thermal vents and upwelling of mineral rich deep hot water brine aquifers that provide an abundant source of steam for cheap and effective electrical generation. The brine is especially rich in lithium. Lots and lots of lithium.

Several small entrepreneurial companies have built and are scaling up new facilities to extract the lithium from these brines in a nearly pollution-free process. Firstly, the brine is practically 'self-extracting'. Thermal convection vents the brine from deep underground. The steam is used to power generators for the plant at a net positive (the unused 'waste electricity' then can be sold to the grid). This heat extraction cools the brine, which then passes through special membrane filtration which extracts the lithium. The 'waste water' brine is then returned to the aquifer via deep subterranean well piping in a pollution-free closed loop system. The lithium is extracted at a net-positive energy cost while the 'waste water' is returned to the deep Earth aquifer from which it came. It is estimated that this single site source is capable of producing more than half of the projected future world demand for lithium! If so, we may be witnessing the beginning of a revolution that could make the U.S. the 'Saudi Arabia of clean energy'.

Major U.S. automobile manufacturers estimate the demand for EVs world-wide will exceed 500,000 vehicles per year by 2025, half of which will be the U.S. market, which coincides with when these extraction plants should be coming online. Today the test facilities near the Salton Sea are producing highly pure lithium powder at a cost that is about one-fourth that of current world market prices, without the Third World political issues and instabilities which always end up having us exploiting the populations (as well as their countries) while enriching and enabling their tin-pot dictators. Auto makers are already buying up the future projections of these startup companies. Prices should fall as production ramps up. Proven reserves in these brines is projected to meet the increasing expected world demand for lithium for the next "three generations."

Is this truth, hyperbole or simply sensationalism? Don't know. But even if this story is only half-true fake-news, it is certainly 100% captivating and welcome good news for the future.


Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #711 on: May 10, 2023, 06:08:30 AM »
The top two countries for lithium production are Chile and Australia.  They sort of left that out.


Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #712 on: May 10, 2023, 06:12:03 AM »
And lithium is not a rare element in the earth's crust, it's pretty abundant. From 2019 ...

Lithium, the periodic table’s lightest metal, is key for clean energy | Science News

 One of the oldest known Yellowstone craters, called McDermitt Caldera, filled with water, then later dried up, leaving behind a potential treasure trove of lithium-rich clay. Vancouver-based Lithium Americas Corp., which plans to begin mining operations at a site called Thacker Pass within the caldera in 2022, estimates that by 2025, the lake bed could provide as much as 25 percent of the world’s lithium.

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #713 on: May 10, 2023, 08:17:13 AM »
That's good news for sure.
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