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Topic: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #182 on: January 28, 2020, 10:28:25 PM »
"so far" he's quite a bit better than Frost.
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FearlessF

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #183 on: January 28, 2020, 10:40:41 PM »
Frost seems to respect Bo as a coach

Frost also respects Solich

Callahan and Riley???  not so much
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CWSooner

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #184 on: January 29, 2020, 07:50:20 PM »
Pelini "by far" better than Solich?
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FearlessF

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #185 on: January 29, 2020, 08:22:06 PM »
no, so far

so far he was better than Solich
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CatsbyAZ

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #186 on: January 29, 2020, 10:57:48 PM »
You know who’s the NFL version of Pelini?

Bill O’Brien. Consistently wins division and makes the playoffs yet spouts unpredictable sideline tirades that includes goofy facial expressions, keeps a testy relationship with local media, and hasn’t endeared a Texans fanbase that hasn’t taken kindly to him, especially as time goes on and they feel their patience tested, even throughout winning seasons.

I’m not sure if Pelini is quite the power hound that O’Brien is. Dude just lobbied his way into the GM spot despite the 2nd half egg he laid against the Chiefs.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 12:38:09 AM by CatsbyAZ »

FearlessF

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #187 on: January 30, 2020, 02:14:15 PM »
not sure if Pelini wanted to acquire more power, he simply didn't want ANYONE telling him what to do.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #188 on: January 30, 2020, 02:58:05 PM »
O'Brien is a guy USC should look at.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #189 on: January 30, 2020, 04:18:19 PM »
not sure if Pelini wanted to acquire more power, he simply didn't want ANYONE telling him what to do.
Sounds like a head college football coach, or an AD who used to be a head college football coach

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #190 on: January 30, 2020, 06:38:01 PM »
I mean, Aranda wasn't an earth-shattering recruiter, and frankly, that machine is just rolling.

He'll have jimmys and joes.


So if LSU is pretty much going to have the jimmys and the joes either way, again, what’s the point of paying Pelini so MUCH $$$??? The joke is on LSU at this point. Especially given how their HC has a better history of building defenses based on his own higher level of recruiting.

I don’t see how LSU under Orgeron won’t be any different than FSU under Jimbo Fisher. Both netted Nat’l Championships on the backs of truly special QBs, and outside of that get their 10 win seasons, give or take a game, until wearing out their welcomes with exactly what they are: coaches dependent more on the talent of their rosters than their ability to develop rosters, which becomes most glaring at the QB position, where the ceiling of their whole program ends up resting.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 06:43:05 PM by CatsbyAZ »

bayareabadger

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #191 on: January 30, 2020, 09:28:37 PM »

So if LSU is pretty much going to have the jimmys and the joes either way, again, what’s the point of paying Pelini so MUCH $$$??? The joke is on LSU at this point. Especially given how their HC has a better history of building defenses based on his own higher level of recruiting.

I don’t see how LSU under Orgeron won’t be any different than FSU under Jimbo Fisher. Both netted Nat’l Championships on the backs of truly special QBs, and outside of that get their 10 win seasons, give or take a game, until wearing out their welcomes with exactly what they are: coaches dependent more on the talent of their rosters than their ability to develop rosters, which becomes most glaring at the QB position, where the ceiling of their whole program ends up resting.
To the first part: Teams mostly pay because they just don't often backtrack too much on salary in the coaching world. If you knew the salary of the last person who had the job you're taking, you can leverage that in all sorts of ways. Ed O went after a bigger name DC who at least has a high ceiling historically (consistency is less clear). Maybe he's not worth that but in the end, there's no bonus for paying a DC less, esp. not at LSU. Like if a guy sucks at $700K or $2 mil, the latter isn't much better at that place. 

Also worth considering the two highest paid DCs in the land both came to their current jobs off multiple substandard years (one was considered a joke of a hire).

The Jimbo-Ed O comparison is odd. Ed is about to have his second full Burrow-less year. It's kind of an unknown outside worst than this season. Jumbo let recruiting get stagnant, let his staff get stale and refused to shake up, which seems the opposite of O who has had a ton of turnover. Anyway, I assume Ed will fail long term because they'll always be chasing this high and still probably be squeezed out by Alabama often, plus Auburn at times, maybe A&M at some point. And unless they're at the top a disproportionate amount of the time, eventually he'll be run out. 

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #192 on: February 01, 2020, 01:09:11 PM »


The Jimbo-Ed O comparison is odd. Ed is about to have his second full Burrow-less year. It's kind of an unknown outside worst than this season. Jumbo let recruiting get stagnant, let his staff get stale and refused to shake up, which seems the opposite of O who has had a ton of turnover. Anyway, I assume Ed will fail long term because they'll always be chasing this high and still probably be squeezed out by Alabama often, plus Auburn at times, maybe A&M at some point. And unless they're at the top a disproportionate amount of the time, eventually he'll be run out.


I don't think recruiting will tail off at LSU like it did at Florida State. With Auburn, A&M (ironically), and Bama all breathing down LSU's back, the competitive motivation is there to keep it going. Florida State let Clemson pass it up, and if there's an SEC team built to take the lead in the SEC after Bama's reign, it isn't LSU - it's Georgia. I fully expect Georgia to out perform LSU over the next half decade.

My main point is to say Orgeron pulled off one of those banger seasons that line up for helmet programs about once every 10-20 years.

Florida didn't do a lot after Tebow. Same with Texas after Vince Young (mitigated by Colt McCoy). Virginia Tech after Michael Vick. Similarly I don't expect much better from LSU post-Burrow. It's not a bad thing if you're unless you're a fan with bloated expectations.

Georgia is the SEC team that's built and operated for a Clemson or Bama like model of high level consistency.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #193 on: February 02, 2020, 09:10:32 AM »

FearlessF

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #194 on: March 02, 2020, 03:44:58 PM »
From the Huskerpedia Monday Poll.............

In this year’s CFP National Championship Game, the combined salaries for the Clemson and LSU coaching staffs was more than $27 million, with Dabo Swinney at the top with $9.3 million and with Ed Orgeron at $4 million. Salaries of college football coaches have increased dramatically over the past 10-15 years. In 2006 there was only one coach making $3 million/year, now more than 25% of D1 head coaches make that much.

This rise in salaries is not just the head coaches. In 2015 there were approximately 29 assistant coaches making $700,000 – that number is now 72 with LSU defensive coordinator Dave Aranda at the top at $2.5 million. The spending increases are also seen in facilities – stadiums, practice facilities, video boards and more.

Economists describe the situation as unique to the NCAA, because while these are nonprofit organizations and not profit-driven, they are incentivized to spend every dollar of revenue. As a result, there is a strong incentive to maximize revenues and to then utilize those resources to drive competitive outcome – basically acceleration of athletic department spending is itself incentivized.



In this year’s CFP National Championship Game, the combined salaries for the Clemson and LSU coaching staffs was more than $27 million, with Dabo Swinney at the top with $9.3 million and with Ed Orgeron at $4 million. Salaries of college football coaches have increased dramatically over the past 10-15 years. In 2006 there was only one coach making $3 million/year, now more than 25% of D1 head coaches make that much.

This rise in salaries is not just the head coaches. In 2015 there were approximately 29 assistant coaches making $700,000 – that number is now 72 with LSU defensive coordinator Dave Aranda at the top at $2.5 million. The spending increases are also seen in facilities – stadiums, practice facilities, video boards and more.

Economists describe the situation as unique to the NCAA, because while these are nonprofit organizations and not profit-driven, they are incentivized to spend every dollar of revenue. As a result, there is a strong incentive to maximize revenues and to then utilize those resources to drive competitive outcome – basically acceleration of athletic department spending is itself incentivized.


It is believed a minority of schools actually profit from football (and basketball) programs. Whatever that number is, it appears that even the ones making money are not clearing enough to fund non-revenue-generating sports, as we are seeing more and more Power Five schools cutting some sports from their programs.

Proponents of some type of intervention say it is needed because there is no natural way for schools to control spending as currently structured. Pointing to the NBA and NFL salary cap models, they say a cap should be placed high enough to allow “aggressive” schools to pursue their plans (a significant number of FBS schools pay less than $1 million year to their head coach), while bringing program costs under control and potentially increasing competition beyond the current top programs.

What do you think – should there be a salary cap on NCAA college coaching staffs?
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bwarbiany

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Re: Coaching Buyouts and Contract Extensions Thread
« Reply #195 on: March 02, 2020, 04:43:38 PM »
What do you think – should there be a salary cap on NCAA college coaching staffs?
I don't think it'll make any difference.

I think coaching salaries have ballooned because coaches know that in a competitive market they can get it, but the cost of the coach IMHO is not particularly relevant to the outcomes on the field. 

Alabama is going to be Alabama regardless of Saban's salary. The same is true of OSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, USC, etc. When those programs have downturns, it's not because they get cheap in their coaching hires, it's because they hire bad [or poor fit] coaches--and pay them a ton.

One area that is ripe for abuse these days is the growth in non-coaching "football analyst" positions. It's a way for these top programs to pull guys who might need a job and could easily take a mid-level P5 or even a top G5 head coaching job and keep them off the field. While the size of coaching staffs are limited, there is no limit on these analyst positions, so it is in some way a repeat of football prior to scholarship limits--big programs can stockpile coaches merely to keep them away from other schools.

But the issue in CFB is parity, and that parity problem extends WAY beyond coaching salaries. I'd rank coaching salaries way down the list as to ways to improve CFB parity. Fundamentally the issue is that players are selected through a recruiting process rather than a "fair" process like a draft--fair meaning in the interests of parity, which wouldn't be fair to the players who are supposed to be student-athletes and should be able to select where they want to go to school.

But even if you rigorously limited the opulence of the facilities, the amount of support staff associated with a football program, and every other benefit a school uses to increase its desirability over another, it'll still never change the fact that Ohio State and Michigan have "helmet" and Purdue and Minnesota don't. So as long as it's all about recruiting, it'll never be "fair" as it relates to enhancing parity in the sport.

 

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