CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: CatsbyAZ on November 22, 2017, 09:06:03 AM
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PJ Fleck is 5-6 to start his Minnesota tenure and gets a contract extension!?!?!?! Till 2023?
On the heels of getting blown out by Northwestern last weekend?
"...the terms of the deal will become official with the approval by the University's Board of Regents." (http://www.startribune.com/gophers-extend-fleck-contract-to-2023/459296263/)
To pick up where I left off in the Hot Seats thread, this is where State level Board of Regents should start asking questions rather continuing to live out the days of rubberstamping.
Ask what in the world has Fleck accomplished thus far that warrants adding two more years and upping the overall buyout? (Fleck's initial contract already paid him $3.6 Million/year for 5 years.)
And ask the AD why it's necessary to expose so much public money to the risk of buying-out a trigger happy contract extensions
UCLA's coaching change (firing Mora Jr + hiring new guy) will amount to an over $20 Million transaction against UC's cash-strapped system, thanks in large part because of a lazy AD wanting to pat himself on the back by justifying the hire with a premature, risky extension.
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Jeff Long just lost his job because of the terrible extension he gave Bielema.
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Speaking of Contract Extensions, Fox Sports' Brady Quinn is reporting that Michigan is working on offering Jim Harbaugh a LIFETIME contract:
"I talked to someone who's kind of an insider within that program and we had a long, drawn-out conversation. What he told me was, they're working on a lifetime contract. I swear to you, I'm not trying to throw a wrench into [Harbaugh returning to the NFL]. That was his words. He couldn't give me particulars, but he said that's one of the things that they're talking about. That's how confident, that's how good they feel about Jim Harbaugh and how glad they are to have him there. So, maybe it's something that he wants."
:sign0085:
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Wow, can you imagine what Harbaugh will get if he ever finishes above 3rd in the Big Ten East?
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Here's hoping that Fox Sports' Brady Quinn is correct.
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RE: Fleck
It wouldn't surprise me if "his people" planted a seed that he could be poking around for his next "dream job".
Wouldn't surprise me whatsoever, to be perfectly blunt.
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coaches only get multi-million dollar contracts AND huge buyout clauses, because ADs and fan bases are desperate for a winner
if I could negotiate a deal like that for myself, I wouldn't feel guilty about it
but, yes, it's stoopid for the Gophers to pile more money onto a contract for a guy that has proven absolutely nothing in less than one year
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This is what I’ve been waiting for - a school (kind’ve/sort’ve) admitting that they can’t afford to pay the unrealistic buyout of their underperforming HC. In this case Louisville, potentially owing a lot of lawsuit money to Rick Petino and former AD Jurich, plus having paid millions to buyout Chris Mack from Xavier, is realizing that red finances might force Louisville to keep Bobby Petrino no matter how much worse their 2-4 season gets.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/board-member-louisville-may-not-able-afford-bobby-petrinos-buyout-154020569.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/board-member-louisville-may-not-able-afford-bobby-petrinos-buyout-154020569.html)
Going forward I would expect more schools in the same position, followed eventually by hirings with lower buyouts.
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I respect schools and AD's for going stupid on contracts. I wonder what UCLA is thinking right about now. It will be interesting out there. Chip Kelly has never built a program, and he left Oregon with a show-cause label on his forehead.
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I respect schools and AD's for going stupid on contracts. I wonder what UCLA is thinking right about now. It will be interesting out there. Chip Kelly has never built a program, and he left Oregon with a show-cause label on his forehead.
Speaking of which, did anyone see this?
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24945390/judge-rules-ncaa-show-cause-penalty-violates-california-law (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24945390/judge-rules-ncaa-show-cause-penalty-violates-california-law)
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I forgot about that. Could pose a messy situation for the PAC going forward.
I'm thinking it's a rebuff to the NCAA, but at the same time, schools choose to be members of the NCAA. No school is forced to be that, per se, but it would be difficult to sponsor any athletics without being a member. Maybe the PAC will go NAIA... or the NCAA blows up (which wouldn't hurt my feelings). Things could be due for a reset.
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This is what I’ve been waiting for - a school (kind’ve/sort’ve) admitting that they can’t afford to pay the unrealistic buyout of their underperforming HC. In this case Louisville, potentially owing a lot of lawsuit money to Rick Petino and former AD Jurich, plus having paid millions to buyout Chris Mack from Xavier, is realizing that red finances might force Louisville to keep Bobby Petrino no matter how much worse their 2-4 season gets.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/board-member-louisville-may-not-able-afford-bobby-petrinos-buyout-154020569.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/board-member-louisville-may-not-able-afford-bobby-petrinos-buyout-154020569.html)
Going forward I would expect more schools in the same position, followed eventually by hirings with lower buyouts.
This has gotten a lot of run on the Purdue blog because of the Brohm-Louisville connections.
But this in particular is a bit of a weird situation. Most of the B1G are universities first, with athletic departments attached. This is even true of the biggest of the athletic powers of the B1G. They're still dominated by their university, and athletics is a secondary concern. If Purdue decided tomorrow to stop sponsoring football, they'd still be a large land-grant research institution that put people on the moon.
The way Louisville athletics was built is largely seen as overshadowing the university itself, though. You lose the athletics, and everyone will forget that UofL exists. So it's a weird case where the tail is wagging the dog, but now the tail is out of money. Apparently donors are leaving in droves, on top of Papa John who is facing his own issues right now and had his name taken off the stadium.
Not sure how this will play out for them. And if the athletics department craters, I'm not sure a lot of people on the academic side of the university will be sad to see it go.
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"I'm not sure a lot of people on the academic side of the university will be sad to see it go."
Didn't know they had an academic side. Ya learn something new every day!
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Aren't the monies from salaries from the athletic department and not the university?
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Illinois, I believe, was the last school in the Big Ten to have it's AD be a separate institution. After Mike White's last probation, the AD was folded into the University.
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This has gotten a lot of run on the Purdue blog because of the Brohm-Louisville connections.
Been wondering how Brohm fits into all this as well. There seems to be this understood fact that Brohm and Louisville will end up together at first chance. But let’s think about the finances of this. If Louisville rightfully fired Petrino and hired Brohm it would likely come with a $35-40 MILLION DOLLAR price tag. $15 automatically to Petrino and I am assuming a $20 million dollar contract for Brohm. $4 mil for 5 years?
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Been wondering how Brohm fits into all this as well. There seems to be this understood fact that Brohm and Louisville will end up together at first chance. But let’s think about the finances of this. If Louisville rightfully fired Petrino and hired Brohm it would likely come with a $35-40 MILLION DOLLAR price tag. $15 automatically to Petrino and I am assuming a $20 million dollar contract for Brohm. $4 mil for 5 years?
Actually, a lot of Purdue fans think it would be more likely that if Petrino were fired now, Brohm wouldn't jump ship from Purdue this quickly, for a couple reasons:
- He publicly talked about taking the Purdue job when everyone was claiming it was a total rebuild and how he was up for that. It would be weird to walk away after two years of that.
- Brohm seems to be a very down to earth guy, believes in loyalty, apple pie, and the American Way. We don't think he's going to be around forever, but don't think he's going to jump ship after two years for at best a lateral move, even if it's his alma mater.
- Right now Louisville's entire athletic department is a dumpster fire. There's the FBI stuff swirling over the BBall program. There's the fact that their biggest booster just got in trouble for racist comments and got his name taken off the stadium. Their finances are in trouble. They're being sued. The previous AD of 20 years was fired. Who knows if he has any faith in or relationship with the current AD, and whether that AD will weather this whole storm when all is said and done.
Some in the Purdue camp think it's best for Purdue that Petrino get fired immediately and replaced with a coach at Louisville who more likely to be successful long-term, because we don't necessarily think the timing is right for Brohm to jump over there. Of course, the downside is that if Petrino is replaced by a failure who is canned after three years, that's perfect timing for Brohm to go back.
If Petrino lasts two more years, of course, Louisville gets their athletic department turned around, and Brohm has produced results where he can point to his Purdue tenure as a successful rebuild? I can see him leveraging that into a move back to his alma mater.
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Looks like you were right bear, Brohm staying at Purdue for the time being.
Anyway, anyone else see that after another 7 win season and a total record of 38-38 Boston College extended Steve Addazio’s contract two years, from 2020 to 2022? At most I figured he should only get a 1 year extension (because of recruiting) with absolutely nothing added to the buyout, but this might be worth it because I think Boston College is plateauing where they want and in that overcrowded Boston sports market Addazio and the AD can get away with it.
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Looks like you were right bear, Brohm staying at Purdue for the time being.
If you want some additional color on it, listen to this interview (https://soundcloud.com/user-204761944/the-drew_deener-show-jeff-brohm-interview-11-30-2018) that Brohm did on a Louisville radio show a few days after the decision.
Gives you a lot of color on the quality of a human being he is... Especially listen about 18 minutes in when the host asks him about how hard it was to not come back knowing how important Louisville as a community and the university are to his father.
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What?!?! How does Lovie Smith get a two year contract extension after this past 4 win season and a 9-27 w/l record in three seasons?
This Chicago Tribune article blames the initial 6 year contract: “Whitman really couldn’t fire Smith even if he wanted to after this season. Handcuffed by an unnecessarily costly six-year contract that required a $12 million buyout this year, Whitman needed to keep Smith employed.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-illinois-lovie-smith-contract-extension-20181125-story,amp.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-illinois-lovie-smith-contract-extension-20181125-story,amp.html)
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blame the initial 6 year deal now and then blame the 2 year extension next December?
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From Arizona Daily Star: Football Buyouts push ASU, Arizona into budget deficits: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/2874084002 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/2874084002)
“Despite revenue record, Arizona State athletics is reporting a $13.1-million deficit for the 2017-18 fiscal year largely due to buying out football coach Todd Graham.”
“Arizona athletics also is reporting a $7.4-million deficit for 2017-18 because of $8.2 million due in severance payments. The majority of that ($6.2 million) goes to former football coach Rich Rodriguez, who was under contract through May 2020, with the rest for assistant coaches.”
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In wake of Chris Ash's firing from Rutgers over the weekend, here's a 2017 article covering the extension he signed after going 4-8, updating the existing contract through 2022: https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/2017/11/chris_ash_signs_new_5-year_contract_at_rutgers_pat.html
"Shortly before kickoff of Saturday's season finale, Rutgers reaffirmed its commitment to Ash after improvements in his second year by essentially restarting the clock on his tenure and replacing the original five-year, $11 million agreement signed in December 2015.
"Rutgers is trying to secure and supplement a Top 40-ranked 2018 recruiting class committed a few weeks from the new early signing period.
"It is very rare for a college football coach to go into the third year of his first five-year contact unless the school is lukewarm about his future.
"The name of the game in recruiting is for a coach to pitch that he will be at the school for the full length of a high schooler's college career. Otherwise, job uncertainty can be used in anti-recruiting by rivals.
Now that Chris Ash has been fired three seasons short of contract end, Rutgers owes Ash $8.5 million in buyout money. Yes, the recruiting angle is understandable - extending a coach's contract to accommodate for the 5-year recruiting cycle is one of the few things an AD can do to provide stability to a coaching tenure.
But what I badly want to know is why do ADs always FULLY GUARANTEE the money backing the extension, any extension?!?! Why not only partially guarantee the last two or three years? Start with only guaranteeing $1 Million for every year left - that way instead of owing Ash over $8 million, you're athletic department owes less than half when it's time to move on.
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I presume most coaches use agents (???). I wonder how Pruitt at Tenn is feeling about his job security.
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I presume most coaches use agents (???). I wonder how Pruitt at Tenn is feeling about his job security.
Meaning what? Agents for Coaches render ADs useless to negotiate?
Because the Football Coach is the most powerful face at many larger universities, I’m guessing ADs don’t want to risk the good terms of their working relationship coming down to how much of the HC’s contract is guaranteed. Which also goes hand in hand with how many ADs are too quick to pull the trigger on unwarranted coaching extensions.
Here’s another head scratcher: https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2017/12/06/pitt-signs-narduzzi-seven-year-extension/
From Dec 6 2017: “Pitt head coach Pat Narduzzi has signed a seven-year contract extension that will keep him at Pitt through the 2024 season, athletic director Heather Lyke announced on Wednesday.
Narduzzi just completed his third year as head coach of the Panthers and has a 21-17 record. Financial terms of the contract were not disclosed. Peter Thamel of Yahoo! reported on Tuesday that the new contract included a raise for Narduzzi and an increase in the salary pool for his assistant coaches.
“We’re thrilled Pat Narduzzi is our head football coach,” Lyke said in a press release. “We are deeply committed to helping him, his staff and his student-athletes achieve at the highest levels in the ACC and nationally. Coach Narduzzi is a tireless worker, dynamic leader and passionate about building outstanding relationships with our student-athletes and everyone connected to our Pitt family. He and his staff are fully dedicated to building a national-caliber program the right way, on and off the field.”
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I just wondered if coaches often use agents to work out contract details. These are big numbers, often with moving parts, sliding scales, and clauses preventing the coach from riding a motorcyle with a coed on the back.
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I just wondered if coaches often use agents to work out contract details. These are big numbers, often with moving parts, sliding scales, and clauses preventing the coach from riding a motorcyle with a coed on the back.
You forgot the "Don't pay for strippers with a university credit card" clause.
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ROOOOOLLLLL TIDE!
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Can Tennessee "get back" someday to being decent? I mean like 9-3 or 8-4 decent? They have been down for a while now, and been through a number of coaches.
Texas was down for a bit, it happens, but they seem to be back to at LEAST decent, if not quite good.
The Vols need to find a good coach soon if Pruitt if not it.
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I don't see any reason why UTenn can't. They do seem to have struggled to get the right coach. But they're in a conference and region that can help them recruit. Mizzou went 8-4 last year in the same division, and I don't see anything in the Vol program that should prevent them from doing similarly well.
At Texas we hired one coach that really, REALLY didn't work out, but the one after that has us to at least decent, as you said.
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Uh-oh, another idiotically premature contract extension? At least this is only talk from from a harmless BYU columnist:
https://www.deseret.com/2019/11/3/20944871/kalani-sitakes-byu-cougars-dominate-the-utah-state-aggies-now-its-time-to-extend-his-contract
"It was BYU’s follow-up act after upsetting 14th-ranked Boise State in Provo. The 639 yards gained on the reeling Aggies are the most ever produced by a BYU offense in the Sitake era. Now 4-4, the win sets the Cougars up for a bowl game if two victories can be achieved against Liberty, Idaho State, UMass and San Diego State. Before kickoff, BYU’s strength of schedule was the seventh toughest in the nation.
This brings up a key question. Has Sitake done enough in 2019 to warrant a contract extension?
The answer is simple: yes."
What is the deal with rushing contract extensions?!?!
Sitake is 24-23 in four seasons, to include 4-4 this season with mixed results beating ranked USC & Boise State but losing to Toledo and South Florida.
With the downhill part of the schedule coming up - Liberty, Idaho State, UMass, and San Diego State - let's see if Sitake can manage 3-1 or 4-0 before entertaining contract extension talks. Looks like the article's comments section mostly agrees.
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Rumors circulating the Pirate is a strong candidate for the Noles gig,who knows.I wanted him in C-Bus when Tress was dismissed - be interesting for sure
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Wasn't the Pirate self exiled to the Florida Keys after TT showed him the door? I recall him guest hosting XMU shows from the Keys. Not that he's opposed to living or going wherever, after all the Cody, WY native has coached in pretty much every post and outpost in the country.
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It seems to me every year there are more openings than there are obvious candidates.
That usually leads to assistants being hired as HC with a hope they can handle it.
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I'd give the Pirate a chance if I were an AD
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Can Tennessee "get back" someday to being decent? I mean like 9-3 or 8-4 decent? They have been down for a while now, and been through a number of coaches.
Texas was down for a bit, it happens, but they seem to be back to at LEAST decent, if not quite good.
The Vols need to find a good coach soon if Pruitt if not it.
Yeah. Barely good enough to beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl. (https://i.imgur.com/O0ylInO.png)
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I'd give the Pirate a chance if I were an AD
I like Mike Leach. In his one year in Norman, he installed the offense that took the Sooners to a national championship a year later.
He's also just a hell of an interesting guy. I'm sure that it would be a blast hanging out with him in Key West and hearing his pirate stories.
But what has he done lately to indicate that he's got what it takes to revive a moribund big-time college football program? He's not doing anything special with Wazzu.
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The Paloose isn't USC,Austin,Norman,Tuscaloosa,C-Bus,Tallahassee,Baton Rouge or even Lubbock- I'd take a chance on him
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nothing special, but I think Wazzu is in better shape than when he arrived
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The Paloose isn't USC,Austin,Norman,Tuscaloosa,C-Bus,Tallahassee,Baton Rouge or even Lubbock- I'd take a chance on him
The Paloose surely can't be worse than Lubbock! ~???
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The Paloose surely can't be worse than Lubbock! ~???
Ah but my dirt burglaring buddy it prolly is facturing in surrounding talent base.And convincing kids to go way out of the way.Great place to study I'd imagine
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Lubbock, Texas, where you can watch your dog run away for a week. If you stand on a can of paint, you can watch him run away for a month.
Which reminds me, did you know that if you scaled down the Earth to the size of a bowling ball, the Earth would be smoother than the bowling ball?
That's per the director of Mapping, Charting, & Geodesy at West Point 25 years ago.
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that's a large can o paint!
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I like Mike Leach. In his one year in Norman, he installed the offense that took the Sooners to a national championship a year later.
He's also just a hell of an interesting guy. I'm sure that it would be a blast hanging out with him in Key West and hearing his pirate stories.
But what has he done lately to indicate that he's got what it takes to revive a moribund big-time college football program? He's not doing anything special with Wazzu.
He won 37 games across four years at a school whose success hasn’t been consistent. Since 1951, the highest coaches in winning percentage went 6-5, 12-10, 53-45 (leach) and 83-78.
Their best modern era coach had six winning seasons in 14 years and turned that into the Bama job.
We can argue if that’s special (maybe not), but there isn’t a ton that’s super special out there.
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He won 37 games across four years at a school whose success hasn’t been consistent. Since 1951, the highest coaches in winning percentage went 6-5, 12-10, 53-45 (leach) and 83-78.
Their best modern era coach had six winning seasons in 14 years and turned that into the Bama job.
We can argue if that’s special (maybe not), but there isn’t a ton that’s super special out there.
On top of that, while Texas Tech wasn't as dire as the WSU rebuild, Leach had a higher winning percentage in Lubbock than any coach since the 1930s.
Is he the right fit for FSU? I don't know. But he's had more success at two P5 schools than any other modern era coaches at either school.
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IMO, Leach has tailed off a bit since leaving Texas Tech. He's older, he's more jaded, he's even less willing to put up with crap than he was 20 years ago.
I think he still likes aspects of coaching football, but I don't think he's got a fire burning in his belly to build a program capable of beating Bama or Clemson.
As far as other Texas Tech coaches, have any of them gone on to better jobs in which they achieved anything of note? I don't know of any, but I haven't researched the subject.
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As far as other Texas Tech coaches, have any of them gone on to better jobs in which they achieved anything of note? I don't know of any, but I haven't researched the subject.
Tuberville succeeded Leach, and then went on to a decent 4-year stretch at Cincinnati, but his final season was 4-8 and he resigned and was replaced by Luke Fickell. I think Tuberville was clearly on the downslope of his coaching career at that point, though, so it wasn't like he was using Texas Tech as a springboard job.
Ryan Gosling succeeded Tuberville for a number of years at Texas Tech, moonlighting from his successful acting career. He is now the first-year coach of the Arizona Cardinals, but his first season wouldn't be described as achieving anything of note thus far.
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"Ryan Gosling" (https://outalk.us/Smileys/default/laugh1.gif)
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Which reminds me, did you know that if you scaled down the Earth to the size of a bowling ball, the Earth would be smoother than the bowling ball?
That's per the director of Mapping, Charting, & Geodesy at West Point 25 years ago.
I need further convincing.
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The Earth is smoother than a cue ball, I know that. Nearly 8,000 miles diameter and the deepest surface depth is about 7 miles. That is SMOOTH.
Low earth orbit is only about 200 miles up, they are skimming the upper atmosphere in effect.
They "fall" inwards at the same rate they go parallel to the planet, about 17,0000 mph.
We call it zero g, but more aptly it is "free fall", which any object experiences (mostly) if not under thrust and not in contact with a surface. A cannon ball does it, until it hits ground, ballistic trajectory (mostly).
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I think he still likes aspects of coaching football, but I don't think he's got a fire burning in his belly to build a program capable of beating Bama or Clemson.
Living in the Keys has that effect but he may make one last serious run
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I'd like to try living in the Keys this winter for a week or two
There is one golf course in Key West - one is plenty
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You can stop at the 19th Bowl...I mean Hole
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I bet being a head coach is a tough job.
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not taking that bet
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Uh-oh, another idiotically premature contract extension? At least this is only talk from from a harmless BYU columnist:
...
With the downhill part of the schedule coming up - Liberty, Idaho State, UMass, and San Diego State - let's see if Sitake can manage 3-1 or 4-0 before entertaining contract extension talks. Looks like the article's comments section mostly agrees.
Well wouldn't you know it...Kalani Sitake got his contract extended...this one isn't so bad because it only extends four years out from now, which fits the reason of stabilizing recruiting. It's the extensions that go six and seven years into the future that put Athletic Departments at needless financial risks.
"Sitake’s new deal takes him through the 2023 season.
Sitake’s current contract was set to expire after the 2020 season, and there was rampant speculation that he was on the hot seat after the Cougars lost back-to-back road games at Toledo and South Florida to drop to 2-4 on the year. Those puzzling losses came on the heels of wins over No. 24 USC and Tennessee of the SEC.
But they have won four straight to get bowl eligible and accepted an invitation to play in the So-Fi Hawaii Bowl on Christmas Eve (6 p.m. MST, ESPN) at Aloha Stadium after downing Idaho State 42-10 on Saturday."
https://www.deseret.com/2019/11/18/20970638/byu-announces-extension-for-football-coach-kalani-sitake
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New Mexico coach Bob Davie will not return as the Lobos' football coach in 2020, the school announced Monday.
Davie, who is 35-63 since taking over in November 2011, will coach the Lobos (2-9, 0-7 Mountain West) in the regular-season finale against Utah State on Saturday
"In stepping aside, I'm proud of what we accomplished at UNM, but we are all disappointed that we have not been able to sustain the success that we achieved and all desire," Davie said in a statement. "My family and I will be forever grateful to UNM for giving me the opportunity to coach again."
His eight-season tenure is tied for the second-longest in program history. Davie was hired at New Mexico after spending 10 years at ESPN, which followed a five-year run as the head coach at Notre Dame (1997-2001), where he went 35-25.
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Wow, Chris Petersen stepping down at Washington
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Wow, Chris Petersen stepping down at Washington
Probably should have never left Boise. He had some moments in Seattle, but he never looked comfortable.
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I wonder if his phone rang recently.
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On the bright[??] side, Purdue probably won't have to worry about teams making a run at Jeff Brohm this offseason...
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On the bright[??] side, Purdue probably won't have to worry about teams making a run at Jeff Brohm this offseason...
If they do anyway, I'm thinking Kevin Sumlin might come on the market. Heh.
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I wonder if his phone rang recently.
Perhaps,wonder if he'd fit in with the Spoiled Children?
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If they do anyway, I'm thinking Kevin Sumlin might come on the market. Heh.
He is a Purdue legacy. Played LB for the Boilers in the 80s.
There are worse candidates. He'd probably come cheaper than Brohm at least.
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If they do anyway, I'm thinking Kevin Sumlin might come on the market. Heh.
The perfect linearity behind Kevin Sumlin’s midlife crisis:
2011 (at Houston): 12-1
2012 (at Texas A&M): 11-2
2013: 9-4
2014: 8-5
2015: 8-5
2016: 8-5
2017: 7-5
2018 (at Arizona): 5-7
2019: 4-8
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Sometimes people make decisions to leave a place for all the right reasons. I don't draw any conclusions for why CP is stepping down. People have all kinds of different ambitions, desires, quality of life, plans and so forth. He's brought that place back to a pretty high level if you really look back at the lows they hit.
This season was a bit disappointing no doubt.
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maybe his boss was a dick
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That I can understand,amazing more of them aren't shot - not that there's anything wrong with that
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Possibly. Well, my boss isn't that, or other curse words, but we (finally) announced our company's sale last week. A bit of a win-win spin off. These changes introduce all kinds of dynamics which will no doubt impact why 'A' or 'B' decide to hang around, maybe certain people find a groove and develop beyond their capabilities than they were ever able to under the 'Old Co', etc. The environment you're in is too often neglected by observers of a particular industry in the comings and goings of senior leadership. Of course in other circumstances, it's just business/money.
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I endured two good bosses out of about 20, and 3 remarkably bad/crazy/insane bosses. Most were just there, largely worthless and pointless and apathetic.
I had one lady boss from Italy who was seriously crazy, she's walk down the hall muttering to herself, showed up to work around 10 AM and left around 3, unless there was snow in the forecast where she'd leave at 11 AM. She also tried to get me demoted when HER boss was having me promoted, same time period. I "survived" by largely ignoring her (except the time she came into my office and sat down and put her hand on my knee, she was not attractive at all).
I have a ton of stupid boss stories, but she took the cake. The bad one was a boss two levels above me who almost ruined my career. I just had to wait him out.
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He is a Purdue legacy. Played LB for the Boilers in the 80s.
There are worse candidates. He'd probably come cheaper than Brohm at least.
If Brohm were to leave, and I'm the Purdue AD, I'd at least give a hard look at Tim Tibesar. The guy can coach and he's a good recruiter too - really liked him when he was at UW, but he left when Leonhard was picked for DC over him.
Of course, he's a defensive guy, so, he probably wouldn't get a sniff at Purdue.
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If Brohm were to leave, and I'm the Purdue AD, I'd at least give a hard look at Tim Tibesar. The guy can coach and he's a good recruiter too - really liked him when he was at UW, but he left when Leonhard was picked for DC over him.
Of course, he's a defensive guy, so, he probably wouldn't get a sniff at Purdue.
He was our DC in 2012, Danny Hope's last season as HC. That was his first US job after spending a few seasons in the CFL. It didn't go well. Looking at the stats, we had the 89th-ranked scoring defense in FBS.
That said, I don't like the idea. He hasn't had any HC experience, and he's only even been a DC twice--once at Purdue which didn't go well but he only got one year, and while the OrSU defense has improved, I'm not sure he's earned HC level looks yet.
If Brohm leaves, I'm not saying you need to throw out money like Brohm is earning, but I'd be looking a tier above Tibesar in the grand scheme of things.
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He was also a DC at KSU (when Bielema left, I believe) and at North Dakota (alma mater), and in the CFL. LB coach for Lovie in Chicago.
Worked for some really good coaches along the way too, including Fitz at NU, and Snyder. Aranda and Chryst.
You're right though. Probably should take a job as HC at a MWC or MAC school first. Of course, the aforesaid Bielema was never a HC before UW, and that worked OK.
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Of course, the aforesaid Bielema was never a HC before UW, and that worked OK.
I know how fond you are of Bert.
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I wonder statistically how many new coaches are viewed as successes by the program after 5-7 years. What would you guess?
We could probably simply look at coaching tenures, any coach still AT a program after 7 years likely is viewed as a success. Those there less than that would be "yet to be determined" in many cases, but I bet many were fired before they made 7 years. (Seven is arbitrary.) This far, three of the 14 SEC programs are looking, and a couple more are pondering (USCe and Tennessee). Florida found what well may be a good coach after a few attempts failed.
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Lane Kiffin to Oxford, MS
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I know how fond you are of Bert.
I think he's a good man who had some bad moments. The worst of which being his leaving UW. I doubt he'd still be there though. A lot of the big money didn't like him.
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Couldn't believe how juvenile Bert got after leaving Madtown.The Kharma bullshit what was that even about?Though he certainly got his comeuppance later.UW treated him great and he badmouths them with his arm candy tart echoing everthing he said.I thought the best one was like 3 years back, for no reason whatsoever he starts popping off about Ohio State's schedule.That very next saturday the Hogs lost @ home to Toledo who was with out Kareem Hunt and their starting QB - a team tOSU has never lost to.The guy just couldn't get out of his own way.The pitchforks and torches really started coming out after that
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I think he likes where he is now. He's a good DL coach, working for the best organization in sports. Lost a bunch of weight too. I'm happy for him.
The Karma thing.. that was his wife, tweeted after UW got the hose job at ASU.
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Purdue DC Nick Holt has been fired. No named replacement at this time.
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TV gave Holt an absurd amount of face time. Good pictures I guess, but it portrayed him as some sort of defensive genius when he stomped around like a meathead. He was the Pelini of DCs.
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Wait, why are we just now learning of Mike Norvell's player photo from his playing days at Central Arkansas?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8b/88/bf/8b88bf6582bb99c3563315b18db8e259.jpg)
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Wait, why are we just now learning of Mike Norvell's player photo from his playing days at Central Arkansas?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8b/88/bf/8b88bf6582bb99c3563315b18db8e259.jpg)
LMAO. Sam McGuffie?
Wonder what happens with Willie Taggart. Wouldn't mind Harbaugh hiring him as an assistant or analyst just for recruiting purposes. Taggart has lot of connections in Florida and California, he's a heck of a recruiter.
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TV gave Holt an absurd amount of face time. Good pictures I guess, but it portrayed him as some sort of defensive genius when he stomped around like a meathead. He was the Pelini of DCs.
He looked so fearsome. I feel like his defenses ran hot and cold. He had some good ones I think, but consistency wasn’t always there.
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Bielema did a very good job in Madison. Nothing short of that.
But he burned bridges when he left, and he was never good in front of a mic. There were whispers of other problems for him in Madtown, and it's pretty clear that Mrs. Bielema wanted out. If SFIrish really wanted a change, it would be a serious point I'd have to consider.
The Badgers landed on their feet, and with Chryst, seem to have found the right groove.
No hard feelings for Bielema, but no love lost, either.
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LMAO. Sam McGuffie?
Wonder what happens with Willie Taggart. Wouldn't mind Harbaugh hiring him as an assistant or analyst just for recruiting purposes. Taggart has lot of connections in Florida and California, he's a heck of a recruiter.
Yeah, I'd love him as a position coach, not sure where his head is at, but if he'd be willing to be a QB or WR coach, sign me up.
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Quote from: 847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=1579.msg175708#msg175708) 12/7/2019, 9:48:43 AM
I think he's a good man who had some bad moments. The worst of which being his leaving UW. I doubt he'd still be there though. A lot of the big money didn't like him.
Bert is one of the most fascinating coaches I’ve ever watched. His UW time had it all, a fall, a rise again, redemption, change, missed chances and the most curious final season that drove a wedge into all the cracks that were there.
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I was thinking about first-time college head coaches who did well in the P5.
Lloyd Carr
Barry Alvarez
Mark Richt
Phil Fulmer
Joe Paterno
Chip Kelly
Just thinking off the top of my head here. Who are some of the others?
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Vince Dooley and Kirby Smart (preliminary of course) were first time HCs. I think there have been a lot of them of course, and some have "done well". Spurrier was USFL head coach before going to Duke.
Spurrier was named the ACC Coach of the Year in both 1988 and 1989.[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Spurrier#cite_note-67)
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I was thinking about first-time college head coaches who did well in the P5.
Lloyd Carr
Barry Alvarez
Mark Richt
Phil Fulmer
Joe Paterno
Chip Kelly
Just thinking off the top of my head here. Who are some of the others?
do Tom Osborne and Barry Switzer qualify?
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Bear Bryant
Bill Snyder
Vince Dooley
Nick Saban is weird. He coached for 1 year at Toledo, then resigned and was an NFL DC for 4 years, then took the MSU job. Speaking of MSU, George Perles.
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do Tom Osborne and Barry Switzer qualify?
Of course they would.
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Bob Stoops.
Lincoln Riley is doing OK so far.
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OK, so what I'm getting at here is that it seems foolish to rule out candidates based on not having HC experience.
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OK, so what I'm getting at here is that it seems foolish to rule out candidates based on not having HC experience.
I agree. MSU wouldn't have Izzo right now had that been their standard back then.
But how many of those hires were within even the last 20(?) years. The Oklahoma pair and Chip Kelly?
It's just not the path anymore.
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I agree. MSU wouldn't have Izzo right now had that been their standard back then.
But how many of those hires were within even the last 20(?) years. The Oklahoma pair and Chip Kelly?
It's just not the path anymore.
Bielema was one. When did Richt start?
Pitt hired Chryst and Nards. Clemson has Dabo. He's OK.
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I agree. MSU wouldn't have Izzo right now had that been their standard back then.
But how many of those hires were within even the last 20(?) years. The Oklahoma pair and Chip Kelly?
It's just not the path anymore.
perhaps it should be the path
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Richt took over in 2001. The Dawgs went 8-4 with an upset at Tennessee (hob nailed boot game). Smart went 8-5 in his first year. Both did considerably better in Year Two, which is often a thing it seems.
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I agree. MSU wouldn't have Izzo right now had that been their standard back then.
But how many of those hires were within even the last 20(?) years. The Oklahoma pair and Chip Kelly?
It's just not the path anymore.
Mike Leach at Texas Tech.
Depends on how you define "did well," perhaps.
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Mike Leach at Texas Tech.
Depends on how you define "did well," perhaps.
He won 66 percent of his TT games. He did well.
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I agree. MSU wouldn't have Izzo right now had that been their standard back then.
But how many of those hires were within even the last 20(?) years. The Oklahoma pair and Chip Kelly?
It's just not the path anymore.
I kind of disagree, unless we count interim stuff before getting hired as previous experience. There are 20 P5 Top-25 teams. Here's the ones who had no previous HC experience before getting the jobs at their schools.
Day at OSU
Dabo at Clemson
Riley at OU
Smart at UGA
Whittingham at Utah
Helton at USC
Gundy at OK State
You have a few others in Franklin and Mullin who got first HC jobs at P5 schools, just not the ones they're at, plus a few others where their original HC experience wasn't particularly notable to their current hire (No one was saying Oregon's coach was hired based on his FAU resume, nor Ed O for his Ole Miss work, nor really Chryst at Pitt or Ferentz at Maine).
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I kind of disagree, unless we count interim stuff before getting hired as previous experience. There are 20 P5 Top-25 teams. Here's the ones who had no previous HC experience before getting the jobs at their schools.
Day at OSU
Dabo at Clemson
Riley at OU
Smart at UGA
Whittingham at Utah
Helton at USC
Gundy at OK State
You have a few others in Franklin and Mullin who got first HC jobs at P5 schools, just not the ones they're at, plus a few others where their original HC experience wasn't particularly notable to their current hire (No one was saying Oregon's coach was hired based on his FAU resume, nor Ed O for his Ole Miss work, nor really Chryst at Pitt or Ferentz at Maine).
Yeah, I meant more like where a legitimate coaching search is conducted, and an internal candidate is chosen.
Granted, how many coaches legitimately retire anymore? They either retire young, then are rumored to return, or are fired. Or even if they do retire, like Bowden, or Beamer, or shortly Dantonio, they would have been fired, if not for their past history at the school, because they did not leave the program in great shape. So most of the time, you are making a coaching hire because of the mess your program is in, so you are unlikely to just promote from within, because they are likely part of the problem.
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Interesting point, very few coaches appear to retire these days, in earnest. I am sure the average coaching tenure at a place has dropped sharply since ca. 1970. A lot of coaches would do 25 years at one place back in the day, and then actually retire, or take the AD job.
I think Mack Brown will retire in 3-4 years, after unretiring.
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if he's not fired before then
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GREELEY, Colo. – Former Broncos wide receiver Ed McCaffrey has been named the head football coach at the University of Northern Colorado.
McCaffrey confirmed the news in an Instagram post on Thursday afternoon. He'll be making the jump to the college level from Valor Christian High School in Highlands Ranch, where he was the head coach for the last two seasons.
UNC, which competes in the NCAA Football Championship Subdivision, fired coach Earnest Collins this year after a 2-10 season. Collins went 6-5 in 2015 and 2016 but had no other winning seasons since taking the UNC job in 2011 and an overall record of 28-72.
McCaffrey will be introduced as the Bears' new coach at a press conference at 3 p.m. Friday on the UNC campus.
_________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ _____
Look out Harbaugh - Fast Eddie is gonna need a QB
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BC seems like kind of a thankless job. The last guy took them to like 5 bowl games in 6 years, and that wasn't good enough? What exactly do they think that they are? They have no recruiting base and no history in a pro sports town. They are a geographic outlier in a conference that only has one school that is located anywhere near them. Are they supposed to average 8+ wins a year? How?
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BC seems like kind of a thankless job. The last guy took them to like 5 bowl games in 6 years, and that wasn't good enough?
Addazio went 7-6 just about every year. Is it culturally, or expectations-wise, any different than Pelini going 9-4 every year until Husker fans got tired of it? I guess every job turns into a thankless job if you’re batting purgatory every year. In BC’s case we learned their purgatory is 7-6. In Nebraska’s case it’s 9-4.
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Addazio went 7-6 just about every year. Is it culturally, or expectations-wise, any different than Pelini going 9-4 every year until Husker fans got tired of it? I guess every job turns into a thankless job if you’re batting purgatory every year. In BC’s case we learned their purgatory is 7-6. In Nebraska’s case it’s 9-4.
I always thought that a Pelini who could have behaved like Tom Osborne would have created a lot less angst in Huskerland than the ever-angry Pelini whose mouth was always open and spittle was always flying out. I always figured he had just eaten onions and his mouthwash wasn't cutting it as well.
Nobody likes a flaming jackass. They'll tolerate him if he wins, though. For awhile, anyway.
Conversely, representing the program in a classy way will often buy some benefit of the doubt.
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They either retire young, then are rumored to return, or are fired. Or even if they do retire, like Bowden, or Beamer, or shortly Dantonio,
ISWYDT,shortly,HA!
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For as stately and genteel as Hayden Fry came across his coaching tree is populated with some quick-tempered, foul mouthed folk. Pelini, Mark Stoops, Mangino, Jim Leavitt. All committed Catholic boys too!
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Pelini was awesome. Mangino too.
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Pelini would have been fine with the right AD
Eichorst couldn't handle him
If the Big 12 hadn't put a second back on the clock in 2009 (it was the correct call) and if Pelini would have found a way to beat the Badgers a second time in 2012 in Indy ( I know it was a blowout) Pelini would still be there and Eichorst would have left earlier.
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2012.
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geez, I even looked it up before I mistyped it
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Pelini would have been fine with the right AD
Eichorst couldn't handle him
If the Big 12 hadn't put a second back on the clock in 2009 (it was the correct call) and if Pelini would have found a way to beat the Badgers a second time in 2012 in Indy ( I know it was a blowout) Pelini would still be there and Eichorst would have left earlier.
Not familiar with Eichorst's culpability, but there might be another, more minor game that I remember impacting the Pelini era. The attitude in which the Husker fan base held toward Pelini became more unforgiving after the 2012 road loss Vs UCLA. It was a 36-30 loss and I remember fans really having their faith shaken in Pelini’s reputation to field elite defenses. After that it seemed Huskers took the view of having no idea what they were in for with all the wild finishes Nebraska had until he was fired. The dilemma put other aspects of his tenure under harsher question, for instance recruiting, his sideline demeanor, film session tantrums directed at players, leaked audio tapes – it all fell under a sharper scope after that UCLA loss.
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yup, all losses raise questions about the coaching ability to meet expectations, some losses more than others
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Good news for Purdue, they likely won’t have much risk of losing Brohm next year.
Their AD decided to schedule interesting games next season, so they open with a conference game, then Memphis, Air Force and BC. So the worst non-conference opponent is likely an ACC team that had been .500 or better six of the past seven years.
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Good news for Purdue, they likely won’t have much risk of losing Brohm next year.
Their AD decided to schedule interesting games next season, so they open with a conference game, then Memphis, Air Force and BC. So the worst non-conference opponent is likely an ACC team that had been .500 or better six of the past seven years.
You're assuming Purdue isn't going start 4-0, then?
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You're assuming Purdue isn't going start 4-0, then?
I look at it and say it's not like a good start is impossible, but that just feels like an unfriendly slate.
This year, Purdue would've been an underdog in three of the four and a 1-point road favorite at BC. And that's before most of the conference schedule. (crossovers of Neb in the opener, Rutgers and Mich)
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Purdue is going to better next season, assuming they are healthy. Lots of kids got experience this year.
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I look at it and say it's not like a good start is impossible, but that just feels like an unfriendly slate.
This year, Purdue would've been an underdog in three of the four and a 1-point road favorite at BC. And that's before most of the conference schedule. (crossovers of Neb in the opener, Rutgers and Mich)
I'm just more giving you grief because you assume that Brohm won't be a hot commodity based on the assumption of losses.
While I agree that this isn't the most friendly starting slate, there's a lot to look forward to.
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Former Nebraska player and head coach Frank Solich received a two-year contract extension at Ohio this week, the school announced.
The 75-year-old former Husker coach will conclude his 15th season at Ohio when the Bobcats play in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl against Nevada on Friday night.
"Frank Solich is a future hall of fame coach with an impeccable national reputation. We are proud of the culture of athletic and academic success he and his staff have established at Ohio University and we appreciate Frank's deep commitment to our institution," said Ohio Athletic Director Julie Cromer in a statement. "We look forward to his continued leadership of our football program."
This year, Solich became the winningest head coach in Mid-American Conference history. This season, he reached 112 overall victories while his 75 MAC wins rank second to former Central Michigan head coach Herb Deromedi's 90. His 15 years of service in the MAC are second only to Deromedi's 16 (1978-93).
Ohio is 112-81 during the Solich era. His 112 victories are the second-most in program history behind Don Peden (121; 1924-46). Ohio has gone 75-45 in conference play since Solich's arrival in Athens in 2005.
This year, Ohio will make its 11th bowl appearance under Solich.
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Congratulations to Fearless Frank!
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I'll be rooting for Frankie at 2:30
4-6 in Bowls with Ohio
3-3 in Bowls with UNL
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Bo would have lasted longer under other AD's, but he wouldn't be the coach at UNL today. He was always chasing the distraction. Before the texas game in lincoln, he was yelling at a fan who had a website about what they had said about the staff. This is hours before a big game and that is your focus? (UNL lost that game, btw..) Unfortunately for Bo, the guy he chewed out was connected to one of the top donors and the AD made Bo apologize.... making things worse. There were other examples of Bo focusing on distractions and many arguements over did they matter or not in the fanbase.
Also, Bo didn't like to be told what to do... if people had ideas, he did the opposite to prove he was in charge. That is how it felt to me. He wasn't reflective, only defensive. I also think he's proven not to be a defensive mastermind, but rather someone who knew Pete Carroll's system. He could replicate it but not evolve it. This has remained true at the lower levels he now coaches.
Bo would have done better than Riley.. no question. But if I had the time machine, I'd go back to Steve Pederson and suggest helping Solich with recruiting and some new assistants rather than throwing out a guy who was a good coach during the week and on game day. He just struggled in recruiting and being the CEO. So work on the recruiting infastructure and grab a few stud recruiters. I still think Solich was a better HC than Bo. That's probably why I say that.
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Joe Moorhead back on the market
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Bo would have lasted longer under other AD's, but he wouldn't be the coach at UNL today. He was always chasing the distraction. Before the texas game in lincoln, he was yelling at a fan who had a website about what they had said about the staff. This is hours before a big game and that is your focus? (UNL lost that game, btw..) Unfortunately for Bo, the guy he chewed out was connected to one of the top donors and the AD made Bo apologize.... making things worse. There were other examples of Bo focusing on distractions and many arguements over did they matter or not in the fanbase.
Also, Bo didn't like to be told what to do... if people had ideas, he did the opposite to prove he was in charge. That is how it felt to me. He wasn't reflective, only defensive. I also think he's proven not to be a defensive mastermind, but rather someone who knew Pete Carroll's system. He could replicate it but not evolve it. This has remained true at the lower levels he now coaches.
Bo would have done better than Riley.. no question. But if I had the time machine, I'd go back to Steve Pederson and suggest helping Solich with recruiting and some new assistants rather than throwing out a guy who was a good coach during the week and on game day. He just struggled in recruiting and being the CEO. So work on the recruiting infastructure and grab a few stud recruiters. I still think Solich was a better HC than Bo. That's probably why I say that.
I think you really nailed it, Entropy.
In 2004, Bo was brought in as OU's Co-DC/DB Coach after Mike Stoops left to take the head job at Arizona (where I wish to high Heaven he would have stayed). The Stoopses and Pelinis are buddies going back to their Youngstown days. He did more to mess up the defense than to help it. He insisted on different DB alignments and terminology, and pissed off everybody in the process.
It was good to see him go after that one year.
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all true about Bo
just a typical Youngstown hot head
with a passion for football
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He has difficulty playing well with others.
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I've heard, at least when he was younger, Mike Stoops had some of these issues
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I've heard, at least when he was younger, Mike Stoops had some of these issues
Still does. Or did 1 1/2 years ago when Lincoln Riley finally fired his ass.
And I doubt that he's done any major growing-up since then.
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There’s got to be more to the Joe Moorhead firing than simply going 6-7 at Miss State this year. A season in which mass suspensions across the roster created an already steep uphill battle for conference wins in the ultra competitive SEC West. He’d done an adequate job the year before as well (8-5, top 25 ranking). Me thinks Ole Miss hiring Kiffin spooked the MSU powes-that-be into a preemptive, totally unnecessary reaction.
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There’s got to be more to the Joe Moorhead firing than simply going 6-7 at Miss State this year. A season in which mass suspensions across the roster created an already steep uphill battle for conference wins in the ultra competitive SEC West. He’d done an adequate job the year before as well (8-5, top 25 ranking). Me thinks Ole Miss hiring Kiffin spooked the MSU powes-that-be into a preemptive, totally unnecessary reaction.
Yeah, that seemed awfully quick.
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Apparently Hoke is back in charge at San Diego State since Long just wants to be a DC somewhere
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Apparently Hoke is back in charge at San Diego State since Long just wants to be a DC somewhere
I think Long is vying for a spot on USC’s staff. They badly need an upgrade from Pendergast’s poor efforts and the Aztec’s defenses were typically Top 15 nationally under Long with an emphasis on stopping the run and man-to-man coverage.
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Mike Leach is heading to Miss State
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https://footballscoop.com/news/report-mike-leach-to-be-next-mississippi-state-head-coach/ (https://footballscoop.com/news/report-mike-leach-to-be-next-mississippi-state-head-coach/)
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Holy crap. So, he turns down Tennessee last year and now takes the msu job??
Yikes.
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Wait till he sees his qb options. He's really gonna vomit.
Egg Bowl will be sublime.
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He'll hit the transfer portal for a QB for sure.
Definitely looking forward to the Pirate vs. Joey Freshwater Egg Bowl matchups. That just became must-see TV.
Also, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, ever got under the Aggies' skin like Mike Leach did whilst at Texas Tech. It's going to be glorious watching him troll them once again.
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He'll hit the transfer portal for a QB for sure.
Definitely looking forward to the Pirate vs. Joey Freshwater Egg Bowl matchups. That just became must-see TV.
Also, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, ever got under the Aggies' skin like Mike Leach did whilst at Texas Tech. It's going to be glorious watching him troll them once again.
I think back to the thread about adopting other teams to follow here. I'm pretty sure people would be fighting for the Pirate and Kiffykins...
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Also, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, ever got under the Aggies' skin like Mike Leach did whilst at Texas Tech. It's going to be glorious watching him troll them once again.
Hopefully Leach does it again, starting with Jimbo’s jumbo contract. Nobody is pays more for mediocrity than Texas A&M. So far $20 Mil to barely scratch the Top 25.
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Holy crap. So, he turns down Tennessee last year and now takes the msu job??
Yikes.
He accepted Tennessee.
Then they fired the guy that hired him.
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Woah, Indiana coming to play
https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/1215983622186045441?s=19
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Woah, Indiana coming to play
https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/1215983622186045441?s=
Going from Debord to Deboer at OC really helped them. It's too bad they only got him for one year. Nick Sheridan is the replacement - a lot of weight there
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Aranda to Baylor. Interesting.
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Aranda to Baylor. Interesting.
Aranda was way overdue for a head coaching gig. After 2014 or 2015 during his time as DC with Wisconsin I figured he’d take openings at either Hawaii, Utah State, or Fresno State before working his way into the PAC 12. Dude is a good coach and glad to see what he’ll do at Baylor.
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Aranda was way overdue for a head coaching gig. After 2014 or 2015 during his time as DC with Wisconsin I figured he’d take openings at either Hawaii, Utah State, or Fresno State before working his way into the PAC 12. Dude is a good coach and glad to see what he’ll do at Baylor.
I think what's interesting about it is that it seemed like Aranda could have jumped at a HC gig before now, and never did. I think some folks thought that maybe he, through self-reflection, realized that he either wasn't fully suited for HC or looked at the workload (not only hours, but also the additional media BS and booster glad-handing) that a HC has to manage and simply preferred to be the "man behind the curtain" as a coordinator.
I personally would be surprised to hear that Aranda hasn't already gotten decent HC offers before now. Maybe he hasn't, but his name certainly has been "in the hat" in the media before now.
So [based on that assumption] if he turned down offers in the past but said yes to this one, what changed?
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So [based on that assumption] if he turned down offers in the past but said yes to this one, what changed?
I’d *heard* Aranda was much more interested in landing an NFL DC gig than a college HC gig, lobbying for the Packers DC opening a few years ago. With the NFL never panning out and the larger collective voice telling him he deserved to be HC at some point sooner rather than later - here we are.
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I’d *heard* Aranda was much more interested in landing an NFL DC gig than a college HC gig, lobbying for the Packers DC opening a few years ago. With the NFL never panning out and the larger collective voice telling him he deserved to be HC at some point sooner rather than later - here we are.
If he does well at Waco, he could certainly parlay that into an NFL DC job.
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If he does well at Waco, he could certainly parlay that into an NFL DC job.
That brings up a good point - Can anyone think of any coach who’s parlayed a P5 gig into NFL coordinator? Doesn’t seem like a path anyone intentionally takes.
Edit: More likely HC flameouts end up as NFL Coordinators. Sarkesian as Falcons OC. NFL OC/DC is a step down from a P5 HC if not solely because of the salary difference.
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That brings up a good point - Can anyone think of any coach who’s parlayed a P5 gig into NFL coordinator? Doesn’t seem like a path anyone intentionally takes.
Edit: More likely HC flameouts end up as NFL Coordinators. Sarkesian as Falcons OC. NFL OC/DC is a step down from a P5 HC if not solely because of the salary difference.
I was thinking about this and it's a hard spot just because if a P5 job is going "well," they tend to keep you well paid, and if you had the chops for a jump to an NFL spot, you generally jumped from a sub-head coach role or at worst G5 (UGA's new OC did that).
Some of it also centers around the fact that almost no P5 head coaching roles end that well. Most fail or at least don't succeed to a majestic level, so it's either a flameout or just kinda drag to the end. And if you're good, you tend to jump to HC.
Shoot, how many actually good coaches even parlayed a P5 HC job into a NFL HC job? Carroll had to beat the posse out of town. Rhule is one. Are there more than even a few others.
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Billy C pulled that gig and eventually and interim HC gig.
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I was thinking about this and it's a hard spot just because if a P5 job is going "well," they tend to keep you well paid, and if you had the chops for a jump to an NFL spot, you generally jumped from a sub-head coach role or at worst G5 (UGA's new OC did that).
Some of it also centers around the fact that almost no P5 head coaching roles end that well. Most fail or at least don't succeed to a majestic level, so it's either a flameout or just kinda drag to the end. And if you're good, you tend to jump to HC.
Shoot, how many actually good coaches even parlayed a P5 HC job into a NFL HC job? Carroll had to beat the posse out of town. Rhule is one. Are there more than even a few others.
Nick Saban. Jimmy Johnson. Barry Switzer. Chuck Fairbanks.
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Stevie Shiny pants spurrier
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Nick Saban. Jimmy Johnson. Barry Switzer. Chuck Fairbanks.
Switzer was run out of college for Switzer stuff, and going 16 years at a place, then taking six years off, then jumping doesn’t feel like “parlaying” to me. Same for Spurrier, he played out a mostly full career and then bounced.
Saban, Johnson and Fairbanks fit the bill to me.
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Jim Caldwell. It seems the world forgot he coached Wake Forest.
Chan Gailey see sawed between college HC gigs and NFL gigs.
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I forgot
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Jim Caldwell. It seems the world forgot he coached Wake Forest.
NEVER knew that about Caldwell!
Looking up his time there, he went 26-63 with a 12-52 conference record, and only ONE winning season (7-5 in 1999).
Maybe that’s why nobody remembers.
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Jim Caldwell. It seems the world forgot he coached Wake Forest.
Chan Gailey see sawed between college HC gigs and NFL gigs.
Both those guys where college coaches that got NFL jobs, but I don’t think they could be characterized as turning P5 head coaching jobs into NFL head coach jobs.
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Dave Wannstadt?
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Todd Graham, after enjoying a nice 2 year vacation upon his dismissal from ASU, was named head coach at Hawaii.
While at the time of his firing I wasn't exactly thrilled about it, in hindsight it was the right move. His stricter disciplinarian style was exactly what ASU needed after the way too lax Erickson, and his efforts helping ASU greatly improved their football facilities and stadium should not be dismissed.
That said, over time once his better assistants kept getting poached and he was having a harder time replacing them with someone of equal quality his recruiting hit rate really fell off, especially costly ignoring CA HS recruits (no halfway decent ASU team ever existed without it's fair share of CA kids) and that ultimately sealed his fate.
He did however leave the ASU football program overall in a better condition than when he found it so I will always wish him well. Hope he has success at Hawaii.
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Todd Graham has had at least some success at all of his stops, including the University of Tulsa, where he took the team into South Bend and beat Notre Dame.
But he's a slimeball.
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Todd Graham, after enjoying a nice 2 year vacation upon his dismissal from ASU, was named head coach at Hawaii.
While at the time of his firing I wasn't exactly thrilled about it, in hindsight it was the right move. His stricter disciplinarian style was exactly what ASU needed after the way too lax Erickson, and his efforts helping ASU greatly improved their football facilities and stadium should not be dismissed.
That said, over time once his better assistants kept getting poached and he was having a harder time replacing them with someone of equal quality his recruiting hit rate really fell off, especially costly ignoring CA HS recruits (no halfway decent ASU team ever existed without it's fair share of CA kids) and that ultimately sealed his fate.
He did however leave the ASU football program overall in a better condition than when he found it so I will always wish him well. Hope he has success at Hawaii.
His DREAM job.
For REALZ this time!!
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LSU is hiring Youngstown State coach Bo Pelini as defensive coordinator, a source confirmed to ESPN.
Pelini, who served as LSU's defensive coordinator from 2005 to 2007 and helped the Tigers to a national championship in 2007, has coached Youngstown State for the past five seasons. An official announcement on Pelini's hiring is expected later Monday. Sports Illustrated first reported the move.
Pelini, 52, replaces Dave Aranda, who served as LSU's defensive coordinator the past four seasons before leaving for the head-coaching job at Baylor. Aranda had been the highest-paid assistant in college football, earning $2.5 million annually.
Pelini is receiving a multiyear contract with an annual salary comparable to Aranda's, which will make him one of college football's highest-paid assistants, sources told ESPN.
Pelini's son, Patrick, noted his father's return to LSU on Twitter.
Pelini is 100-55 as a head coach at Nebraska and Youngstown State. He has served as defensive coordinator at LSU, Oklahoma and Nebraska, and also coached linebackers for three NFL teams between 1994 and 2002.
After being fired by Nebraska following the 2014 season, Pelini returned to Youngstown, Ohio, his hometown, to coach the Penguins.
He guided Youngstown State to the FCS national championship game in his second season but did not win more than six games in any of the other four.
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Pelini is receiving a multiyear contract with an annual salary comparable to Aranda's, which will make him one of college football's highest-paid assistants, sources told ESPN.
Big mistake paying Pelini anywhere near what they gave to Aranda. LSU should act like they’re doing Pelini a favor - not the other way around. He’s not that great of a recruiter and there’s plenty of equivalent defensive minds out there, but I do think from a personality standpoint he handles himself better as an assistant - out of the spotlight - than as HC.
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Pelini has an interesting CV, particularly as a DC. He auditioned nicely for Solich, to no avail of course after the '03 season, the defensive improvements didn't matter, and Solich and everybody else headed out the door. Pelini as DC had by and large, very good defenses during this OU/LSU stints
Later, Pelini as HC (and Carl) really did fashion a helluva a defensive scheme (so called Peso) for the XIIing offenses, his teams really wreaked havoc on the XII QBs during their final few years in the XII (2008-10), managing to have the top scoring D in the country (it helped having Suh no doubt). Of course, some of aforementioned problems for Pelini (his recruiting shortcomings, not to mention other considerations) left him ill prepared to transition to a league which required totally different schemes defensively.
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I look forward to seeing Bo on the sideline again
he is entertaining and I like a coach with some fire/passion, especially defensive guys
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Pelini will be back as a P5 HC in short order. Had to work his way back up the ladder. Pretty obvious he was working miracles at Nebraska with the benefit of hindsight.
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I don't think Bo is even dumb enough to take another head coaching spot
but, I'm sure there are a few ADs dumb enough to hire him
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Well he took a HC spot at Youngstown. So I don't see why he'd be adverse to doing it again. But you know him better than I.
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the spot light isn't too bright on the podium at Youngstown
A source said Pelini agreed to a three-year contract worth $2.3 million per year, at LSU
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I don't think Bo is even dumb enough to take another head coaching spot
but, I'm sure there are a few ADs dumb enough to hire him
In the sense of him making a scene too often or the actual coaching?
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Big mistake paying Pelini anywhere near what they gave to Aranda. LSU should act like they’re doing Pelini a favor - not the other way around. He’s not that great of a recruiter and there’s plenty of equivalent defensive minds out there, but I do think from a personality standpoint he handles himself better as an assistant - out of the spotlight - than as HC.
I mean, Aranda wasn't an earth-shattering recruiter, and frankly, that machine is just rolling.
He'll have jimmys and joes.
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In the sense of him making a scene too often or the actual coaching?
in the sense that Bo doesn't enjoy the political or personal relations aspect and he understands he's not well suited for it.
he's better in the locker room, sidelines, or practice facility than anywhere near a press conference
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Does the disdain for Pelini exist outside of the Nebraska fan base? He is generally well liked in Columbus, but has OSU ties.
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Does the disdain for Pelini exist outside of the Nebraska fan base? He is generally well liked in Columbus, but has OSU ties.
I don't dislike him, but I sure as hell wouldn't want him at MSU from a coaching perspective
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I don't like him.
And the fact that he was at OU for 2 years (working for Brent Venables after Million-Dollar-Mike Stoops) left and screwed up the secondary made me glad to see him hit the road.
I can afford to not like him as a person because I don't have to like him as our coach.
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Pelini, 52, replaces Dave Aranda, who served as LSU's defensive coordinator the past four seasons before leaving for the head-coaching job at Baylor. Aranda had been the highest-paid assistant in college football, earning $2.5 million annually.
I thought I heard/read 3-4-5 yrs back LSU Athl.Dept was running in quite a deficit.Kinda crazy the priorities of big time sports at the "amateur" level.With Coach O and Coach Bo that is one ugly staff
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the AD had to be failing miserably to be running in the RED with a decent football program in the SEC
no boosters of substance trusted the AD?
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the spot light isn't too bright on the podium at Youngstown
A source said Pelini agreed to a three-year contract worth $2.3 million per year, at LSU
WOW - over TWO MILLION for a coordinator. This is bad business on the part of LSU. Pelini is NOT worth that much $$$ as an HC!
And for whoever said Pelini was working miracles, I agree - the miracle being the remarkable 9 & 10 win consistency he pulled off year after year. Along with consistent winning, Pelini's time in Lincoln remains one of the strangest tenures I've ever seen. The fan's disdain toward him mad all the worse by his total lack of self control on the sideline. His defense heavy first teams eventually giving way to winning through the offense. I could go on.
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Pelini wasn't a great head coach, but so far he was better than Solich, Callahan, and Riley in Lincoln. Jury is still out on Frost
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"so far" he's quite a bit better than Frost.
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Frost seems to respect Bo as a coach
Frost also respects Solich
Callahan and Riley??? not so much
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Pelini "by far" better than Solich?
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no, so far
so far he was better than Solich
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You know who’s the NFL version of Pelini?
Bill O’Brien. Consistently wins division and makes the playoffs yet spouts unpredictable sideline tirades that includes goofy facial expressions, keeps a testy relationship with local media, and hasn’t endeared a Texans fanbase that hasn’t taken kindly to him, especially as time goes on and they feel their patience tested, even throughout winning seasons.
I’m not sure if Pelini is quite the power hound that O’Brien is. Dude just lobbied his way into the GM spot despite the 2nd half egg he laid against the Chiefs.
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not sure if Pelini wanted to acquire more power, he simply didn't want ANYONE telling him what to do.
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O'Brien is a guy USC should look at.
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not sure if Pelini wanted to acquire more power, he simply didn't want ANYONE telling him what to do.
Sounds like a head college football coach, or an AD who used to be a head college football coach
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I mean, Aranda wasn't an earth-shattering recruiter, and frankly, that machine is just rolling.
He'll have jimmys and joes.
So if LSU is pretty much going to have the jimmys and the joes either way, again, what’s the point of paying Pelini so MUCH $$$??? The joke is on LSU at this point. Especially given how their HC has a better history of building defenses based on his own higher level of recruiting.
I don’t see how LSU under Orgeron won’t be any different than FSU under Jimbo Fisher. Both netted Nat’l Championships on the backs of truly special QBs, and outside of that get their 10 win seasons, give or take a game, until wearing out their welcomes with exactly what they are: coaches dependent more on the talent of their rosters than their ability to develop rosters, which becomes most glaring at the QB position, where the ceiling of their whole program ends up resting.
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So if LSU is pretty much going to have the jimmys and the joes either way, again, what’s the point of paying Pelini so MUCH $$$??? The joke is on LSU at this point. Especially given how their HC has a better history of building defenses based on his own higher level of recruiting.
I don’t see how LSU under Orgeron won’t be any different than FSU under Jimbo Fisher. Both netted Nat’l Championships on the backs of truly special QBs, and outside of that get their 10 win seasons, give or take a game, until wearing out their welcomes with exactly what they are: coaches dependent more on the talent of their rosters than their ability to develop rosters, which becomes most glaring at the QB position, where the ceiling of their whole program ends up resting.
To the first part: Teams mostly pay because they just don't often backtrack too much on salary in the coaching world. If you knew the salary of the last person who had the job you're taking, you can leverage that in all sorts of ways. Ed O went after a bigger name DC who at least has a high ceiling historically (consistency is less clear). Maybe he's not worth that but in the end, there's no bonus for paying a DC less, esp. not at LSU. Like if a guy sucks at $700K or $2 mil, the latter isn't much better at that place.
Also worth considering the two highest paid DCs in the land both came to their current jobs off multiple substandard years (one was considered a joke of a hire).
The Jimbo-Ed O comparison is odd. Ed is about to have his second full Burrow-less year. It's kind of an unknown outside worst than this season. Jumbo let recruiting get stagnant, let his staff get stale and refused to shake up, which seems the opposite of O who has had a ton of turnover. Anyway, I assume Ed will fail long term because they'll always be chasing this high and still probably be squeezed out by Alabama often, plus Auburn at times, maybe A&M at some point. And unless they're at the top a disproportionate amount of the time, eventually he'll be run out.
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The Jimbo-Ed O comparison is odd. Ed is about to have his second full Burrow-less year. It's kind of an unknown outside worst than this season. Jumbo let recruiting get stagnant, let his staff get stale and refused to shake up, which seems the opposite of O who has had a ton of turnover. Anyway, I assume Ed will fail long term because they'll always be chasing this high and still probably be squeezed out by Alabama often, plus Auburn at times, maybe A&M at some point. And unless they're at the top a disproportionate amount of the time, eventually he'll be run out.
I don't think recruiting will tail off at LSU like it did at Florida State. With Auburn, A&M (ironically), and Bama all breathing down LSU's back, the competitive motivation is there to keep it going. Florida State let Clemson pass it up, and if there's an SEC team built to take the lead in the SEC after Bama's reign, it isn't LSU - it's Georgia. I fully expect Georgia to out perform LSU over the next half decade.
My main point is to say Orgeron pulled off one of those banger seasons that line up for helmet programs about once every 10-20 years.
Florida didn't do a lot after Tebow. Same with Texas after Vince Young (mitigated by Colt McCoy). Virginia Tech after Michael Vick. Similarly I don't expect much better from LSU post-Burrow. It's not a bad thing if you're unless you're a fan with bloated expectations.
Georgia is the SEC team that's built and operated for a Clemson or Bama like model of high level consistency.
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O'Brien is a guy USC should look at.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fm.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F7e%2F7ea9100cd5ba8ab38c45f04ff2b13aff275518ab66f8ea7a3377bb9a9413d9c8.jpg&hash=536a96e1fc9d503575e6474b79440357)
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From the Huskerpedia Monday Poll.............
In this year’s CFP National Championship Game, the combined salaries for the Clemson and LSU coaching staffs was more than $27 million, with Dabo Swinney at the top with $9.3 million and with Ed Orgeron at $4 million. Salaries of college football coaches have increased dramatically over the past 10-15 years. In 2006 there was only one coach making $3 million/year, now more than 25% of D1 head coaches make that much.
This rise in salaries is not just the head coaches. In 2015 there were approximately 29 assistant coaches making $700,000 – that number is now 72 with LSU defensive coordinator Dave Aranda at the top at $2.5 million. The spending increases are also seen in facilities – stadiums, practice facilities, video boards and more.
Economists describe the situation as unique to the NCAA, because while these are nonprofit organizations and not profit-driven, they are incentivized to spend every dollar of revenue. As a result, there is a strong incentive to maximize revenues and to then utilize those resources to drive competitive outcome – basically acceleration of athletic department spending is itself incentivized.
In this year’s CFP National Championship Game, the combined salaries for the Clemson and LSU coaching staffs was more than $27 million, with Dabo Swinney at the top with $9.3 million and with Ed Orgeron at $4 million. Salaries of college football coaches have increased dramatically over the past 10-15 years. In 2006 there was only one coach making $3 million/year, now more than 25% of D1 head coaches make that much.
This rise in salaries is not just the head coaches. In 2015 there were approximately 29 assistant coaches making $700,000 – that number is now 72 with LSU defensive coordinator Dave Aranda at the top at $2.5 million. The spending increases are also seen in facilities – stadiums, practice facilities, video boards and more.
Economists describe the situation as unique to the NCAA, because while these are nonprofit organizations and not profit-driven, they are incentivized to spend every dollar of revenue. As a result, there is a strong incentive to maximize revenues and to then utilize those resources to drive competitive outcome – basically acceleration of athletic department spending is itself incentivized.
It is believed a minority of schools actually profit from football (and basketball) programs. Whatever that number is, it appears that even the ones making money are not clearing enough to fund non-revenue-generating sports, as we are seeing more and more Power Five schools cutting some sports from their programs.
Proponents of some type of intervention say it is needed because there is no natural way for schools to control spending as currently structured. Pointing to the NBA and NFL salary cap models, they say a cap should be placed high enough to allow “aggressive” schools to pursue their plans (a significant number of FBS schools pay less than $1 million year to their head coach), while bringing program costs under control and potentially increasing competition beyond the current top programs.
What do you think – should there be a salary cap on NCAA college coaching staffs?
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What do you think – should there be a salary cap on NCAA college coaching staffs?
I don't think it'll make any difference.
I think coaching salaries have ballooned because coaches know that in a competitive market they can get it, but the cost of the coach IMHO is not particularly relevant to the outcomes on the field.
Alabama is going to be Alabama regardless of Saban's salary. The same is true of OSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, USC, etc. When those programs have downturns, it's not because they get cheap in their coaching hires, it's because they hire bad [or poor fit] coaches--and pay them a ton.
One area that is ripe for abuse these days is the growth in non-coaching "football analyst" positions. It's a way for these top programs to pull guys who might need a job and could easily take a mid-level P5 or even a top G5 head coaching job and keep them off the field. While the size of coaching staffs are limited, there is no limit on these analyst positions, so it is in some way a repeat of football prior to scholarship limits--big programs can stockpile coaches merely to keep them away from other schools.
But the issue in CFB is parity, and that parity problem extends WAY beyond coaching salaries. I'd rank coaching salaries way down the list as to ways to improve CFB parity. Fundamentally the issue is that players are selected through a recruiting process rather than a "fair" process like a draft--fair meaning in the interests of parity, which wouldn't be fair to the players who are supposed to be student-athletes and should be able to select where they want to go to school.
But even if you rigorously limited the opulence of the facilities, the amount of support staff associated with a football program, and every other benefit a school uses to increase its desirability over another, it'll still never change the fact that Ohio State and Michigan have "helmet" and Purdue and Minnesota don't. So as long as it's all about recruiting, it'll never be "fair" as it relates to enhancing parity in the sport.
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Capping coach salaries is not legal.
Should a modest number of schools hold their ground on salaries, they could make some progress, but that kind of non-collective action has proven very difficult.
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I don't think it'll make any difference.
I think coaching salaries have ballooned because coaches know that in a competitive market they can get it, but the cost of the coach IMHO is not particularly relevant to the outcomes on the field.
Alabama is going to be Alabama regardless of Saban's salary. The same is true of OSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, USC, etc. When those programs have downturns, it's not because they get cheap in their coaching hires, it's because they hire bad [or poor fit] coaches--and pay them a ton.
One area that is ripe for abuse these days is the growth in non-coaching "football analyst" positions. It's a way for these top programs to pull guys who might need a job and could easily take a mid-level P5 or even a top G5 head coaching job and keep them off the field. While the size of coaching staffs are limited, there is no limit on these analyst positions, so it is in some way a repeat of football prior to scholarship limits--big programs can stockpile coaches merely to keep them away from other schools.
But the issue in CFB is parity, and that parity problem extends WAY beyond coaching salaries. I'd rank coaching salaries way down the list as to ways to improve CFB parity. Fundamentally the issue is that players are selected through a recruiting process rather than a "fair" process like a draft--fair meaning in the interests of parity, which wouldn't be fair to the players who are supposed to be student-athletes and should be able to select where they want to go to school.
But even if you rigorously limited the opulence of the facilities, the amount of support staff associated with a football program, and every other benefit a school uses to increase its desirability over another, it'll still never change the fact that Ohio State and Michigan have "helmet" and Purdue and Minnesota don't. So as long as it's all about recruiting, it'll never be "fair" as it relates to enhancing parity in the sport.
A small nit.
Those analysts are not well paid. Many of the big name ones are there because they’re riding out buyouts.
One issue is that some of those good assistant jobs are better paid than HCs, so some folks are more choosy (Dave Aranda).
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A small nit.
Those analysts are not well paid. Many of the big name ones are there because they’re riding out buyouts.
One issue is that some of those good assistant jobs are better paid than HCs, so some folks are more choosy (Dave Aranda).
No argument there. Heck, if they can be getting paid by the school that fired them while getting also paid by a new school as long as it's not a "coaching" position, good on 'em for gaming the system.
Point being that these are coaches who COULD find other coaching jobs, but they sit on the deep bench at these big-name schools. Once their buyouts are over, it's possible they'll jump to a smaller school. It's also possible that the analyst position becomes an extended job interview to move up to a coordinator position at said big-name school, furthering their resume for a run at a future HC position at that same or another big-name school.
Either way it's sucking up a portion of the talent pool for head coaching hires, keeping them away from the competition.
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Alabama went through a lot of suck before they got Saban. That was after Spurrier turned them down. They also looked at RichRod and Schiano, who also turned them down.
What if RichRod said yes?
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Alabama went through a lot of suck before they got Saban. That was after Spurrier turned them down. They also looked at RichRod and Schiano, who also turned them down.
What if RichRod said yes?
Going back from 1999-2006 (the year before Saban), according to 247, Alabama had about 5 top 25 recruiting classes, and a two-year spell where they were ranked in the 40s. 1999 is as far back as 247 goes, so I don't know rankings prior to that.
So when they sucked, they STILL got "helmet" recruiting classes.
That's why I'm saying a coaching staff salary cap won't really affect parity. Because recruits don't care how much a coach is paid.
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Capping coach salaries is not legal.
Should a modest number of schools hold their ground on salaries, they could make some progress, but that kind of non-collective action has proven very difficult.
Trying to cap coaching salaries isn’t the right approach. Minimizing buyouts by not guaranteeing the salary in total is the responsible approach.
ADs won’t offer that kind of deal upfront because they usually don’t have the leverage when first hiring. However, when an extension is on the table, this is the time, when they have more leverage, for an AD to withhold guaranteeing salary on the extended years.
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Danny Langsdorf, Nebraska’s offensive coordinator under Mike Riley, is joining the Colorado staff as quarterbacks coach.
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Former Husker quarterback Joe Ganz joins the Northern Iowa staff as wide receivers coach, and former Husker offensive coordinator Shawn Watson will coach the quarterbacks.
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Did anyone see the article in the Omaha paper about UNL's buyout payments for FB and BB coaches? Highest in the country - almost $30 Million.
Ouch. Could build a nice engineering building with that money.
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and worth every penny
well, they should have waited a year or 3 before firing Pelini
would have saved them that cash AND the possibility of hiring Riley
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Worth every penny?
Jeez. Seems ridiculous to me.
Article also says that the buyouts for Frost and Fred comes in at over $50 Million right now.
They better be damn good.
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and worth every penny
well, they should have waited a year or 3 before firing Pelini
would have saved them that cash AND the possibility of hiring Riley
Some day, I want an honest oral history of that hire. I think Riley is a good coach. But even the best Riley wasn't going to give Nebraska fans what they wanted.
In the end they got a 6-7 team that was probably better than that. A 9-4 team that was worse than that and a 4-8 team that was much worse than that.
Interestingly, the Huskers are kinda at the end of the coaching cliche run almost like Michigan. They when from good isn't good enough to start contrast hire to guy with program ties. Neb had the Riley oddity and now has the extremely highly thought of in small sample size program guy. After that, the next hire is gonna just be a wildcard.
I mean really, hire a coach to get ... the Paul Chryst passing game, but with a running game that had been getting less and less power-centric and not much in the way of defensive background? So weird.
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Some day, I want an honest oral history of that hire. I think Riley is a good coach. But even the best Riley wasn't going to give Nebraska fans what they wanted.
AD Shawn Eichorst couldn't handle Pelini, obviously.
Shawn went with the start contrast hire - nice guy
hasty stupid desperate decision and hire
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Detailed article on Will Muschamp's buyout numbers: https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article247207839.html
For as much as I've railed on ADs preemptively granting extensions, such as Muschamp's, who was extended in 2018 to 2024, there's one mitigating cost detail about South Carolina's that I really like:
"At the end of last season, the number thrown around to buy out Will Muschamp’s contract was more than $18 million. Now it’s a bit more than $13.2 million. It sounds like an impossible figure for an athletic department that, at last official announcement, was trying to close a $44 million budget deficit.
But that $13.2 million isn’t a short-term number, and that makes it more palatable.
Instead of looking at the whole number, think of it as a salary. The buyout provision in the contract means Muschamp would make 75% of his current salary from USC, or $3.3 million a year. That’s not great, but easier to handle.
What’s more, whatever he makes at a new job will come out of South Carolina’s obligations. In the past, coaches have had undercut that by taking a minimal salary somewhere else, but USC’s contracts set the minimum offset (mitigation) at 75% of the previous holder of a coach’s new job.
At the moment, 75% of what Auburn’s current defensive coordinator makes is $1.875 million. For Georgia’s, it’s $937,500. For Texas A&M, it’s $1.575 million."
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Kevin Sumlin's buyout at Arizona is $7Mil.
Gus Malzahn's is $21.5Mil which sets all records.
I heard this on the radio this morning though am unable confirm through online sources, but it sounds like both buyouts are being handled from the personal budgets of several wealthy boosters, which in turn, can be claimed as a tax credit. News to me, but yes, personally paying off the buyout for your favorite college's just-fired football coach can be claimed as a tax-credit by the super wealthy.
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That is a crazy number for Gus. Just nuts.
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I don't think it can be a tax CREDIT. Deduction maybe, the CARES Act had some verbiage in it about that. It's not normally a deduction, I did read that changed this year only. But a credit is a different kettle of fish.
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So instead of keeping that money (prudent) or maybe donating it (altruistic), they're spending it on replacing a HC.
Fantastic.
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So instead of keeping that money (prudent) or maybe donating it (altruistic), they're spending it on replacing a HC.
Fantastic.
I tend not to criticize how wealthy people spend their money, given it's their business, and I presume they have plenty more. I'm sure someone could criticize me for how much I spend dining out and on wine, I even ponder this myself at times.
If CFB is an important item for me and I judge that spending $X will enhance my enjoyment, so be it.
Athletic Department Fundraising Likely to Take Big Hit Long Term (frontofficesports.com)
(https://frontofficesports.com/athletic-department-fundraising-impact/)1 Charitable Deduction You Can't Use Anymore | The Motley Fool
(https://www.fool.com/taxes/2019/01/19/1-charitable-deduction-you-cant-use-anymore.aspx)
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It's trickle-down economics.
The hyper-rich are spending their money on the merely rich (head coaches), who will certainly spend it buying yachts. Don't the yacht builders need business in our economy?
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I think of the hyper rich as multibillionaires, Bezos and their ilk. I figure not many of them like CFB.
The "merely rich" I figure are in the hundred million dollars of net worth range, a lot of it tied up, but they can pass out $20 million and not miss it.
We like to use the term "comfortable" of course, not rich, better connotations.
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I don't think it can be a tax CREDIT. Deduction maybe, the CARES Act had some verbiage in it about that. It's not normally a deduction, I did read that changed this year only. But a credit is a different kettle of fish.
Thank you for the clarification. These two sports radio meatheads were going back and forth calling it a CREDIT. But maybe they meant DEDUCTION? Since I don't know much more than them, what exactly is the difference? Both went on to talk about how these particular boosters who were bankrolling the buyouts were paying it off in order to lower their taxable income, say, from $20Mil to $15Mil. Which, isn't that a CREDIT?
And that raises another question - they were able to claim this for tax purposes because it counted as donation to the SCHOOL? How - since, aren't Athletic Departments financially separated from the schools? Or are Athletic Departments somehow considered non-profits?
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Let's say you have $50,000 in TAXABLE income so you owe say $5,000 in income tax (Federal, making up figures). If you get a tax credit of $1,000, you will only ow $4,000 in taxes.
If you get a tax deduction of $1,000, you now owe tax on $49,000 of income, or $4,900.
Tax CREDITS are comparatively rare things, you might get one for buying an electric car for example. Tax deductions are dime a dozen today.
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I think of the hyper rich as multibillionaires, Bezos and their ilk. I figure not many of them like CFB.
The "merely rich" I figure are in the hundred million dollars of net worth range, a lot of it tied up, but they can pass out $20 million and not miss it.
We like to use the term "comfortable" of course, not rich, better connotations.
You mean like Phil Knight (Oregon) or T. Boone Pickens (OkSU)?
Maybe billionaire is "hyper" rich, but hundreds of millions is not "merely" rich... That's still very, very rich.
If I had a net worth of $5M right now I'd consider myself rich--I could tell my boss to GFY and even if I never worked again, could live a VERY nice life off of passive income on that $5M.
If I had a net worth of $150M right now, there'd be no boss to tell to GFY and I could live like a king for the rest of my life off just the passive income there.
Anyone who has spent a few years as a P5 HC is rich, not just comfortable. Comfortable is upper middle class with a high salary, relatively flush 401K, and enough of a nest egg to weather 6-12 months of being out of work. A P5 HC is someone who will often get paid millions of dollars a year for several years after being fired for poor performance--that's more than comfortable.
Let's say you have $50,000 in TAXABLE income so you owe say $5,000 in income tax (Federal, making up figures). If you get a tax credit of $1,000, you will only ow $4,000 in taxes.
If you get a tax deduction of $1,000, you now owe tax on $49,000 of income, or $4,900.
Tax CREDITS are comparatively rare things, you might get one for buying an electric car for example. Tax deductions are dime a dozen today.
Excellent explanation, and perfectly concise.
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The term "comfortable" is one of lore, basically, all these terms are qualitative, and just how I usse them.
There are a few "hyperrich" in the game, yes, and probably a consortium of "merely rich" who act in concert.
My definition of "wealthy" is a person who has no need for any income to sustain his lifestyle. Ever.
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Then anyone who has spent a few years as a P5 HC is wealthy. Their egos cause them to keep wanting to work though, or their lifestyle is so extravagant that they need to.
Pretty sure if Jeff Brohm was fired tomorrow, his previous earnings and the rest of what's owed on his contract would keep him in late-model Honda Accords for the rest of his life lol...
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I think you need close to a hundred million to meet my definition, depending on age, and lifestyle. A person can spend a lot of money on personnel, chefs, trainers, household staff, G5s of course, and wine cellars. There is a private club a block from us that apparently is very expensive, but just money doesn't get you invited.
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My definition of "wealthy" is a person who has no need for any income to sustain his lifestyle. Ever.
Head Hunters in the Amazon - the real one
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A while back, like 20 years, I tried to figure what I thought I'd need to maintain a "lofty" lifestyle, I came up with $20 million. Interest rates were higher of course. I personally don't aspire to owning a G5 or yacht or second mansion etc., so the figure came in fairly low (!!!).
One thing I think I'd enjoy is a part time personal chef, a guy or gal who would come twice a week maybe and prepare something pretty tasty, and then clean up. Some chefs in Paris were doing this when their place was closed. I like to travel, and I'd spend a chunk on that, these rental jet service things looks neat. And of course I'd donate $10 million to the UGA football program for no reason.
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And of course I'd donate $10 million to the UGA football program for no reason.
Had you been more generous 2 years back perhaps Fields would have stayed.Instead he jumped at my offer of a case of Natty Lite Tall Boys,a box of Jimmy Dean frozen microwaveable sausage/egg/cheese biscuits and a 1yr subscription to our Area 51 Premium Lounge.Some bagman you are - no Yuengling for you
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Yeah, Fields could well have won an NC at UGA. Fromm had an off year as a junior, partly because our WRs were missing or not very good.
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If I had a net worth of $5M right now I'd consider myself rich--I could tell my boss to GFY and even if I never worked again, could live a VERY nice life off of passive income on that $5M.
I'm not disagreeing with you per-se, but I wanted to chime in here particularly because of the massive gap between your definition at $5M and:
I think you need close to a hundred million to meet my definition,
I think you are both right, but it is worth exploring (to me anyway).
When I think of "really rich" I think of people who might see Robin Leach knocking on their door (for those too young for this reference he did a show called "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" for many years). By that definition, @bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) 's $5M isn't even in the ballpark and even @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) 's $100M probably doesn't get you there.
$5M sounds like a LOT of money and it is but it depends on lifestyle and location. If you are happy/comfortable living an upper-middle-class life in Midwestern suburbia you can do that for a lifetime on $5M. If you want to cavort with movie stars and live in a hillside mansion overlooking Hollywood . . . $5M will not pay the annual taxes and maintenance on the house let alone buy the house or pay for the lifestyle.
The current yield on 20 US Treasuries is 1.46%. Thus, if you invested your $5M in 20 year US Treasuries, you'd have an income of $73K. One could certainly live on $73K/yr but Robin Leach will NOT be knocking on your door. There are a few other things to consider, @bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) mentioned "never worked again" and that is probably part of most people's definition (or at least not HAVING to work). That $73K is BEFORE taxes and if you aren't working you have some other issues to contend with such as:
- Healthcare: You could easily spend $23K/yr on healthcare.
- What to do? If you aren't working you might want to travel or take up some hobby. Travel is expensive and hobbies can be depending on what your tastes are.
By the time you pay taxes and buy health insurance that $73K is going to be down to probably $40K or less but lets call it $48K "take home". That is $4,000 per month. Like I said, you can live on it, but you aren't living a life of luxury. If you want to (lets say) go to Paris, you can afford it but you'll probably need to fly coach, plan your trip in advance to hunt for deals, etc. When I think of the "Wealthy" I think of some guy who can call his travel agent on Thursday morning and say "Hey, I want to take the wife (or g/f but not both) to Paris for the weekend, set it up." THAT Paris trip is going to cost a fortune. Somebody with $5M in the bank obviously could afford it, but certainly not very often because it would chew up a not insignificant portion of the principle.
The long-term average on 20 year treasuries is roughly 3x the current yield so instead of $73K/yr you would be looking are $219K/yr. Now we are getting into a higher-end lifestyle but Robin Leach still isn't knocking on your door and you still are not living in a mansion overlooking Hollywood.
Then there is another issue, inflation. Inflation has been so low for so long that most people don't really think about it anymore but it exists and every year it degrades your purchasing power. If you are retiring at age 80 and inflation remains under control then it will not be an issue for you and your $5M nest egg. OTOH, if you are in your 20's or 30's and/or if we get back to double-digit annual inflation like we experienced in the late 70's and early 80's then inflation is a major issue for you. Annual inflation from 1973-1982:
- 6.2% 1973
- 11.0% 1974
- 9.1% 1975
- 5.8% 1976
- 6.5% 1977
- 7.6% 1978
- 11.3% 1979
- 13.5% 1980
- 10.3% 1981
- 6.2% 1982
Suppose you started out with $73K or $219K per year in today's dollars in 2020 then we experienced exactly that level of inflation over 10 years from 2021-2030. By 2030 your $73k or $219k would only be worth $29K or $87K. So if you started with $73K by year 10 you probably wouldn't even be able to afford healthcare and if you started with $219K by year 10 you'd be down to just a little more than the $73K we just talked about. Even at more typical rates inflation can take a big bite out of your purchasing power:
- at 2% inflation your purchasing power is cut in half every ~34 years
- at 2.5% inflation your purchasing power is cut in half every ~27 years
- at 3% inflation your purchasing power is cut in half every ~22 years
- at 3.5% inflation your purchasing power is cut in half every ~19 years
None of those are too awfully alarming if you are 80 in year one but if you are 35 in year one . . .
In order to hedge against inflation I would say that you probably need to put about 20% of your gross earnings back into principle (ie, increase your $5M by 20% of your gross earnings each year). NOTE, I said gross so it comes BEFORE taxes. Now even the $219K starts to not look like all that much:
- $219K in annual earnings on your $5M at long-term average 20 year US Treasury Yield of a little under 4.5%
- $43,800 back into principle (20% of gross)
- $54,750 Taxes (this is probably a low estimate for Federal, State, and Local Taxes, 25%)
- $20,000 healthcare (this is probably a low estimate unless you are old enough for Medicare)
- $100,450 "take home"
That $100,450 works out to a little under $8,400/month. That is a good life in Midwestern suburbia. It will, as you said, keep you in late model Honda Accords. You will not be driving Ferraris, cavorting with movie stars, or living in the hills over Hollywood and Robin Leach will not be knocking on your door.
So, what about stocks? Well stocks typically return a lot more than treasuries but they are also a lot more volatile. Returns:
- The Dow Jones Industrial Average started on May 26, 1896. From then through May 25, 2018 (123 years) it averaged a return of 5.42%.
- The S&P 500 began as the "Composite Index" in 1926 and the average return on that from 1926 through 2018 was about 8%.
The problem is the volatility. If you have $5M at the depth of a major long-term trough in the market then you are loaded. If you have $5M at the crest of a major long-term peak in the market, not so much. If you had put the equivalent of $5M in a roughly average group of stocks in 1929 and just left it there you wouldn't have seen a balance of $5M again until the 1950's. It took roughly 25 years for a 1929 investor to get back to even. Now if you had put the same $5M in at the depth of the depression in the 1930's you'd have been VERY wealthy by the time the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI) and you'd have been able to live a life of luxury by the time WWII ended. Either way you'd probably be dead by now.
Some more recent examples (using DJIA and -for simplicity- assuming that you buy on NYE):
- If you put your $5M in at the end of 1999 you were still under water on 12/31/2009 and only BARELY above that on 12/31/2010. That is a decade of basically zero return.
- If you put your $5M in at the end of 2002 it roughly doubled by 12/31/2013.
- If you put your $5M in at the end of 2008 it more than doubled by 12/31/2014.
- If you put your $5M in not long after Kennedy was assassinated (12/31/1965) you were STILL underwater at the end of Reagan's first year in office (12/31/1981) and you wouldn't have doubled your money until 12/31/1987 (22 years).
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I live off my investments (which have had a banner year oddly enough). I just started taking SS, it's still a bit of a surprise to me when that money shows up in my account.
I told the wife if we won the lottery, I wouldn't move. I like where we live. Obviously there are some truly swanky condos near us, but not with this kind of view. I might buy a cool car, but our GTI meets my needs. Any money I have that I COULD need in five years is pretty much in "cash" despite the negligible yields. Any I might need in 5-10 years is in pretty safe boring investments, Coca Cola etc. After 20 years, I have some Apple and Costco etc. as I don't expect to need that money "sooner" and any market decline should recover before I need to rebalance. I dabbled with buying Tesla two years ago and didn't.
The good news is I have more money now than when I retired in 2012 despite drawing it down for expenses. Of course I know that may well not keep up, inflation is a worry for sure. Property tax is a chunk, the HOA adds up about the same, I have a smallish loan on the condo.
I'm fortunate to be as rich as I really want to be. I did scrap pretty hard back in the day to make is possible.
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So I look at it this way...
Agreed that $5M isn't going to get you the Beverly Hills mansion life.
But you start with $5M. Take a hit up front and (California prices) spend $1M on a house--for cash--and clearing out all volatile bills (any debt, car payment, etc). Mortgage/rent and car payment is a HUGE portion of most people's monthly nut. Get rid of that and you have dropped your cash flow requirements significantly.
Granted, now your initial net worth is down to only $4M, but you own your home free and clear so your largest monthly expense is gone.
As you point out, you need to find investments that yield you better than 20-yr T-bills. Most of that $4M should be in stocks, not bonds. Granted, of COURSE you're taking risk there. But without a house or car payment, even in SoCal, do you think you can live on $100K/year? Probably and still live pretty well, including travel, entertainment, etc. So if $3.5M of your remaining $4M is in diversified stock investments and your remaining $500K is in shorter-term liquid investments, you're betting that your $3.5M will grow faster than you deplete your liquid assets. That bet may not work out, but you're not putting everything in low-yield T-bills.
If that $3.5M is in an S&P index fund and it's earning 8%, by rule of 72 it should double every 9 years. Which means that you've basically had to spend $900K on an investment base that should have grown to ~$7M over that time (minus the extra $400K you had to take out, of course).
There's of course risk there, and to some extent I'd be working on becoming a VERY astute investor if I had that kind of net worth and no day job--I dare say investment strategies would become a hobby of mine.
And your choices aren't merely stocks or bonds. A former coworker of mine moved [back] to Boise and got out of the electronics industry and got into the property investment world. I get his email newsletters periodically about the investment properties he's offereing shares in. Putting money into, for example, his investment property offerings would be a good diversification from the S&P at relatively low risk.
To be perfectly honest, I'm not at an age where $5M would cause me to quit my job, I think. I'm 42. I like my job, I'm good at it, and it's not like I'm in a coal mine ruining my health to do it--and the pay is great. I might get bored. My guess would be that I'd take it easy, spend a lot more time traveling, but keep working another 8-10 years and devote my free time into turning that $5M into closer to $10M so that the remaining life after 50 was a LOT more flush.
But I'm pretty sure I could live quite well on a net worth of $5M if I never worked another day in my life.
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Rich = ultra high net worth individual = $30 million.
Anything at that level or above is rich imo.
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FWIW, @bwarbiany (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) , I don't disagree with any of that. I just wanted to point out that $5M definitely wasn't what I think most people would think of as "super rich".
I'm slightly older (45) but if I suddenly inherited $5M from some long-lost rich uncle I didn't know I had, my reaction would be about the same as yours. I wouldn't quit my job in part because I like it but also in part because I'm not sure that I'd want to live the rest of my life on the return that I could get out of $5M.
What it would do for me is this:
First, I'd stop saving for retirement. Adding the $5M windfall to what I have already accumulated would mean that I didn't need to worry about that anymore. That would give me a lot more disposable cash every year.
Second, I'd live off my full income (instead of my income less savings for retirement) so my lifestyle would improve somewhat immediately.
Third, I'd figure (by rule of 72 like you did) that my newfound $5M and my preexisting retirement savings would both double roughly every 8-10 years. Now I know going in that if this is the crest of a peak then it is going to be more like 16-20 but barring something cataclysmic on the level of the Great Depression, I'd probably see my nest egg double by no later than my late 60's. At yours or my age that means that we could pretty safely plan on a very comfortable retirement starting sometime in our 60's. If the market over the next 15-18 years is particularly good, we could easily retire at 60. If it is not so good over the next 15-18 years we could still easily retire by our late 60's.
Even in my Great Depression example:
Assume 1929 = 2020, then
- 1954 = 2045, break-even
- 1959 = 2050, more than doubled
So even in a scenario of the Great Depression repeating itself we'd still break even by the time we were 67/70 and double our money by the time we were 72/75.
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We all agree that $5M isn't "super" rich.
From here, though, let's look at the numbers: https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/
- The 90th percentile of household net worth is $1.2M.
- The 95th percentile is only about double, at $2.6M.
- To reach my $5M number, you're somewhere between the 97th and 98th percentile.
- The "1%", i.e. the 99th percentile, has a household net worth of $11.1M.
I'd venture that a net worth of $5M should be considered rich. You're in the top 3% of all households in the nation. I'd call that in the realm of "merely" rich. Garden-variety rich. But rich nonetheless.
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Garden variety rich, I like it.
At some level of wealthy you have some ability to influence significant areas of interest, like athletics.
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We all agree that $5M isn't "super" rich.
From here, though, let's look at the numbers: https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/
- The 90th percentile of household net worth is $1.2M.
- The 95th percentile is only about double, at $2.6M.
- To reach my $5M number, you're somewhere between the 97th and 98th percentile.
- The "1%", i.e. the 99th percentile, has a household net worth of $11.1M.
I'd venture that a net worth of $5M should be considered rich. You're in the top 3% of all households in the nation. I'd call that in the realm of "merely" rich. Garden-variety rich. But rich nonetheless.
Agreed.
The other part of this is whether or not you are still working/earning (other than from investments).
If you were a very highly paid surgeon, attorney, or somesuch who made $2.5M/yr but you were a spendthrift whose net worth was only $1M you'd be below the 90th percentile in net worth per the figures you just posted but you'd be WAY above the 90th percentile in annual income because even those 1% people with a net worth of around $11M aren't making $2.5M annually in investment returns.
What is rich? What is super-rich? Someone with a $2.5M annual income and ~$1M net worth is spending nearly all of their take-home pay on living expenses. That is much closer to "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" than someone with 10x their net worth living on the investment returns on conservative investments of $10M.
OTOH, if both are involved in accidents that leave them disabled so that they can't work that sucks for both but it isn't much of a financial burden for the person with $10M in assets and no earned income because he didn't have any earned income to lose. For the person with $1M in assets and $2.5 in earned income that is devastating.
Your same percentiles but for income instead of net worth:
- The 90th percentile household income is $201,000.
- The 95th percentile household income is $271,000
- The 99th percentile household income is $532,000
- That $5M in 20 year US Treasuries is $73k or 52nd percentile.
So if you had $5M in 20 year US Treasuries your wealth would be in the 97-98th percentile but your income would be around the median. OTOH, the high earning individual from my example above with $2.5M in annual earnings and only $1M in net worth would be EASILY within the top 1% in earnings but not even in the top 10% in net worth.
I guess I think of it this way. You aren't REALLY rich until returns on your net worth invested in fairly conservative investments get you into the 1% so you need enough assets to generate $532k in annual income to hit my definition. At the current, 1.46% 20 Year US Treasury Yield that would take about $36.4M.
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That seems reasonable, but of course if we compute REAL income, you can't get there at all without riskier investments.
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Imagine you are 70 and have a burn rate of a million a year (AT). You might live to be 100, so you'd need $30 million to spend a mil a year (presume any income merely adjusts for inflation).
I once looked at annuities, some of them make some unbelievable claims. My adviser said they were not believable.
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I guess I think of it this way. You aren't REALLY rich until returns on your net worth invested in fairly conservative investments get you into the 1% so you need enough assets to generate $532k in annual income to hit my definition. At the current, 1.46% 20 Year US Treasury Yield that would take about $36.4M.
I guess I don't define "rich" as purely passive income that would *still* make you a 1%er.
I get your point about the difference between income and wealth. Which of course is the question of what sort of lifestyle you need to maintain in a passive income scenario. If you're trying to maintain a very high-income lifestyle, you need a LOT more wealth than if you're trying to maintain a middle class or upper middle class lifestyle.
That guy who had $2.5M in earned income and only $1M in net worth clearly has a very high end lifestyle, and he's going to need obscene amounts of wealth eventually to maintain it as a passive income.
For me, I live an upper-middle class life. $5M in the bank would probably be enough to sustain that. $10M would definitely do it. $30M would sustain a lifestyle unlike any I've ever known.
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I guess I don't define "rich" as purely passive income that would *still* make you a 1%er.
I get your point about the difference between income and wealth. Which of course is the question of what sort of lifestyle you need to maintain in a passive income scenario. If you're trying to maintain a very high-income lifestyle, you need a LOT more wealth than if you're trying to maintain a middle class or upper middle class lifestyle.
That guy who had $2.5M in earned income and only $1M in net worth clearly has a very high end lifestyle, and he's going to need obscene amounts of wealth eventually to maintain it as a passive income.
For me, I live an upper-middle class life. $5M in the bank would probably be enough to sustain that. $10M would definitely do it. $30M would sustain a lifestyle unlike any I've ever known.
I'm in the same boat and probably need a lot less wealth to sustain my lifestyle than you do because I live in suburban Cleveland while you are in CA so obviously my living expenses are going to be a little lower.
One thing we haven't talked about much through this discussion is age. Part of the reason I keep putting up large numbers is because I look at this as a "What would I need to retire tomorrow?" situation.
I'm 45 so my projected lifespan is ~40 years. Per Social Security you (42) and I (45) have life expectancy of 36.75 (to age 78.75) and 34.06 (to age 79.06) respectively. In theory we *COULD* dip into our principle a little bit each year but with ~40 years of life expectancy to go not very much. Also, prudent planning requires that one prepare for the possibility of living longer than SSI's table. Ie, if you had $5M today and structured your investments to give you the maximum annual payout each year until you turned 78.75 that would be fine unless you lived to age 79 at which point you would be flat broke.
From my perspective, this exercise at age 45 isn't all that different than it is at age 25 or 35 because in any of those cases the timeframe you need to plan for is sufficiently long that you can't dip into principle for all but perhaps a small fraction of your annual needs. That said:
- Life expectancy drops below 30 years at age 50.
- Life expectancy drops below 25 years at age 56.
- Life expectancy drops below 20 years at age 63.
- Life expectancy drops below 15 years at age 70.
- Life expectancy drops below 10 years at age 77.
As you approach a more typical retirement age your life expectancy gets shorter and that means two things that dramatically reduce the amount of net worth needed to retire:
- Inflation becomes much less of a concern. Even in the 1973-1982 example that I posted above by the time you are 77 your life expectancy would only see that happen once.
- You can start planning to dip into principle because your horizon is short enough for that to be reasonable.
There is also a third issue. The Medicare eligibility age is 65. Hitting that likely saves you $20k+/yr. Even before you actually attain Medicare eligibility you can start treating that as a temporary expense. However, in your mid-40's that is still a 20 year consideration.
All of my above comments presuppose that we are talking about a person with at least a 30 year life expectancy such that dipping into principle isn't a prudent option.
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Life expectancy for a 100 year old white male is 2 years.
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I'm in the same boat and probably need a lot less wealth to sustain my lifestyle than you do because I live in suburban Cleveland while you are in CA so obviously my living expenses are going to be a little lower.
hah, I live in the middle of dirt farmers
I don't need to live any better than I've been living the past ten years.
about one million will get me to 100 years old from 60 years old with my current life style
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Month-old news but Jim Harbaugh's contract extension numbers are definitely worth going over.
First off, I'm a huge fan of how Michigan's administration reconfigured Harbaugh's contract because it allows for the needed time-extension (to 2025) to save recruiting face while A) vastly lowering his buyout year by year (see 2nd to last line) and B) cutting his guaranteed compensation in half (from $8Mil to $4Mil) while incentivizing the other half through bonuses he's very unlikely to meet. Without any of the bonuses, Harbaugh's $4Mil guaranteed salary drops him to the 34th highest paid coach nationally.
I want to emphasize how important I believe this type of extension is because I predict this will become the model for contract extensions going forward at MANY schools. For example, UCLA's new AD is already trying to copy this extension for Chip Kelly. Most places probably won't negotiate to lower the guaranteed compensation, but the most attractive part of Harbaugh's extension of minimizing the buyout will be widely copy-catted because it solves the recruiting optics of needing a coach on contract for 4-years out WITHOUT the risk of guaranteeing those 4 years to risk full payout if fired, such as Auburn owing Malzahn north of $20Mil.
ADs should've been negotiating for lesser buyouts years ago, but I guess it wasn't "industry standard" until maybe this pandemic is beginning to dictate where to lower the financial risk of athletic department budgets?
(https://i.imgur.com/bwkrdaq.png)
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Indiana football coach Tom Allen has agreed to a new seven-year contract through the 2027 season that will pay him an average salary of $4.9 million per year, the school announced Monday.
Allen, who was signed through the 2026 season, had an additional year added to his contract after Indiana's Gator Bowl appearance. His average annual salary had been $3.9 million but will climb by $1 million in the new agreement.
The increases come in Allen's outside marketing and promotion income, which is added to $500,000 in annual salary and $500,000 in deferred compensation.
The 2020 Big Ten Coach of the Year and American Football Coaches Association national coach of the year will make $4.3 million in 2021. His salary will increase by $200,000 per year throughout the contract, topping out at $5.5 million. He will continue to receive an extra year on his contract for every future bowl appearance, at a salary of $100,000 more than the final year of the agreement.
Allen, 50, is 24-22 at Indiana with consecutive bowl appearances, a 14-7 record since 2019, and a No. 12 AP poll finish last season. He arrived as Indiana's defensive coordinator in January 2016 and replaced Kevin Wilson as head coach on Dec. 1 of that year.
If Allen leaves Indiana for another job before Dec. 1, he would owe Indiana his full remaining compensation. His buyout then drops to 50% of his remaining compensation for the next year, and then decreases to $4 million, $3 million, $1 million and $500,000 in subsequent years.
Indiana would owe Allen all of his remaining compensation if it fires the coach without cause before Dec. 1, 2024. The school would owe Allen 50% of his remaining compensation in the final three years of the agreement, and 100% of his compensation for years tacked on in future contract extensions.
Allen is a native of New Castle, Indiana, and was a longtime high school coach in Florida and Indiana before entering the college ranks in 2007.
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I guess I should coach.
I could win Teacher of the Year for the state of AZ and I won't get a penny added to my salary.
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Tennessee parted ways with assistant coach Kevin Steele this week, less than two months after adding him to staff prior to Jeremy Pruitt's firing and owes him a hefty severance package. According to ESPN's Chris Low, the Vols will pay Steele his full $900,000 salary over the next two seasons after new coach Josh Heupel decided not to retain him on staff.
In addition to Steele, Tennessee will pay the buyouts of several assistant coaches totaling $10 million, per ESPN. Steele's buyout would be mitigated if he takes another job elsewhere. Shortly after Pruitt's ousting, athletic director Phillip Fulmer stepped down and the Vols hired UCF AD Danny White.
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I guess I should coach.
I could win Teacher of the Year for the state of AZ and I won't get a penny added to my salary.
Don't feel that special. Every quarter Banks promote scores of people to AVP, VP, SVP and it never impacts salary.
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So Kansas is now lookin for a HC.
They need to find a millionaire 50 year old man who's at work 18 hours a day with college coeds running around these massive athletics facilities and hasn't had any incidents.
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Good luck.
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LSU will owe Ed Orgeron $17 Million as buyout for the rest of his coaching contract; from Saturday Down South:
“Orgeron will indeed receive $16,949,000 as his contract termination will be considered a “without cause” scenario. LSU will pay that amount out in a total of 18 installments beginning with $5.68 million in December and running through Dec. 2025. The amounts are set to range from $426,000 to $1 million throughout the course of the next 4-plus years.” https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/lsu-football/ed-orgeron-buyout-official-details-of-buyout-payments-for-departing-lsu-head-coach-revealed/
https://twitter.com/CBSSportsRadio/status/1450537412678098957
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this is what donors of substance are for
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Former Washington State coach Nick Rolovich will be suing the university for illegal termination, in part because of "discriminatory and vindictive behavior" by athletic director Pat Chun, an attorney representing Rolovich said Wednesday.
Washington State fired Rolovich and four other assistant coaches Monday night after they refused to comply with a mandate that required all state employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Gov. Jay Inslee had set a deadline of Monday for employees to be vaccinated, or to receive an exemption and accommodations from their direct supervisors. WSU athletic director Pat Chun on Monday said Rolovich's firing is a for-cause separation, noting that he could not meet the requirements in his contract, which paid him $3 million annually. Therefore, Rolovich will not continue to be paid by the school.
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Month-old news but Jim Harbaugh's contract extension numbers are definitely worth going over.
First off, I'm a huge fan of how Michigan's administration reconfigured Harbaugh's contract because it allows for the needed time-extension (to 2025) to save recruiting face while A) vastly lowering his buyout year by year (see 2nd to last line) and B) cutting his guaranteed compensation in half (from $8Mil to $4Mil) while incentivizing the other half through bonuses he's very unlikely to meet. Without any of the bonuses, Harbaugh's $4Mil guaranteed salary drops him to the 34th highest paid coach nationally.
I want to emphasize how important I believe this type of extension is because I predict this will become the model for contract extensions going forward at MANY schools. For example, UCLA's new AD is already trying to copy this extension for Chip Kelly. Most places probably won't negotiate to lower the guaranteed compensation, but the most attractive part of Harbaugh's extension of minimizing the buyout will be widely copy-catted because it solves the recruiting optics of needing a coach on contract for 4-years out WITHOUT the risk of guaranteeing those 4 years to risk full payout if fired, such as Auburn owing Malzahn north of $20Mil.
ADs should've been negotiating for lesser buyouts years ago, but I guess it wasn't "industry standard" until maybe this pandemic is beginning to dictate where to lower the financial risk of athletic department budgets?
(https://i.imgur.com/bwkrdaq.png)
I didn't see this until this thread got revived due to the happenings at WSU and LSU but I wanted to agree with @CatsbyAZ (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1532) and add to what he said a bit. I concur that the Michigan AD negotiated a much more sensible contract than what seems to be the norm.
Honestly, the on-field performance bonuses could even be SUBSTANTIALLY higher and it would still be a good deal for Michigan. When a team wins a league or especially a national title, merchandise sales skyrocket. There is probably a major diminishing returns issue here (see below) but in general that can be assumed. Thus, the $1 million for an NC is chump change. We all know that @Mdot21 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1595) thinks Harbaugh is a moron and will never win an NC. Frankly if he is correct then the NC bonus could be a billion because who cares, it is never going to be paid anyway. Conversely, if he is wrong and Harbaugh DOES win an NC at Michigan then frankly $1 million is nothing. They'll sell $1 million in NC gear to the Michigan fans on this board.
The diminishing returns issue:
I can tell you that I bought a LOT more NC gear when tOSU won the NC in 2002 than I did when they won it in 2014. I wasn't less of a fan. Both times I was in a similar life situation (single, no kids, college graduate not extremely rich or wealthy but with a good enough job that I could afford to travel to bowls both times (Fiesta Bowl for the 2002 NC, Sugar Bowl CFP semi-final for the 2014 NC)). The difference was that in 2014 I already had a bunch of NC gear left over from 2002. Alabama fans must be swimming in NC gear, thus the diminishing returns.
When Ohio State won the NC in 2002 they hadn't won one previously since before I was born (1968) so I obviously had no NC gear. Even middle-aged fans (say 45 in 2002) were kids (11) when tOSU won their previous NC. Their circa 1968 NC shirts were pretty faded and probably didn't fit anymore so they probably bought LOTS of gear. Conversely, 45 year old tOSU fans in 2014 were already adults (33) when tOSU won their previous NC so they probably bought less gear.
Here is the thing for Michigan though. They haven't won an NC since 1997 or a league title since 2004. I'm 46. I was in college when Michigan won their last NC and not far out of college when they won their last league title. There are LOTS of Michigan fans and they haven't had an opportunity to buy new NC or B1G Champ gear in ~20 years. They'll buy LOTS if Harbaugh gets them there.
Why not make that "Maximum Compensation" number REALLY pop by boosting it up to $16 million instead of ~ $8 million? If Michigan does win an NC, they'll have the extra $8 million anyway and if they don't then they'll never have to pay it so it is win/win for Michigan.
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Jeremy Pruitt’s firing from Tennessee this past January was not a pretty one, and that took another step Tuesday when the lawyer representing the former Vols head coach gave an ultimatum. That was to reach a settlement with him by Oct. 29 or face a lawsuit the lawyer claims has the potential to “cripple UT’s athletic programs for years.” The university has no current plans to settle with Pruitt, according to KnoxNews.
"On behalf of my client, I can tell you that he’s not happy that this is the only choice they’ve left him with," said Michael Lyons, Pruitt’s Texas-based Lawyer, "but he’s not going to walk away without getting his day in court.”
Lyons sent a letter Oct. 7 to Tennessee’s general counsel requesting a meeting to discuss a settlement.
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To quote @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) from the Coaching changes thread:
“One of the parts of Nebraska head coach Scott Frost returning in 2022 was a restructured contract.
On Monday night, Husker athletic director Trev Alberts added some details to that news during an appearance on Sports Nightly.
Alberts said there are still some details to work out, but Frost will have his annual salary reduced in 2022 from $5 million to $4 million. In addition, Alberts said Monday that Frost’s buyout will drop from $15 million for next season to $7.5 million. Frost would have been due $20 million if let go before January 2022.”
I fully agree with what I view as a level-headed decision by Nebraska’s Trev Alberts. Given how many undeserving fan bases are very vocally turning up the heat on firing their guy over the earliest of speedbumps without having any immediate chance at hiring a clear coaching improvement, I find Nebraska’s patience refreshing.
https://www.klkntv.com/details-of-scott-frosts-restructured-contract-released/
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I like Trev's decision, but it will be an almost impossible mission for Frost to put in a new offensive system and then find the right talent to make it perform well enough to show marked improvement next season.
Look out portal - gonna have to take a page from Mel Tucker's book
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I fully agree with what I view as a level-headed decision by Nebraska’s Trev Alberts. Given how many undeserving fan bases are very vocally turning up the heat on firing their guy over the earliest of speedbumps without having any immediate chance at hiring a clear coaching improvement, I find Nebraska’s patience refreshing.
Good way of putting it,think it was over a dozen yrs before Osborne's teams won or played for an MNC.Then they went on impressive runs.It's mind boggling the amount mediocre coaches stumbling arround out there who are rich men
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I also think the fact that LSU and USC for sure, and very possibly Florida, will also be in the market this year, might not be the year to throw your hat in the ring to go get a coach.
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I also think the fact that LSU and USC for sure, and very possibly Florida, will also be in the market this year, might not be the year to throw your hat in the ring to go get a coach.
yeah- that's TOUGH trying to compete with LSU, USC, and Florida to get a coach. I think the best jobs of those three are...
1) Florida - play in the SEC East- typically the easier division of the SEC- and are the biggest state school in arguably the most talent rich state. great fan support and stadium. they'll spend the money to win.
2) LSU - probably the best state for talent per capita, great fan support and stadium. they'll also spend the money in the arms race to win.
3) USC - location to talent is superb, but fan support is trash, they play in a half-empty out-dated stadium, AD doesn't generate the big bucks in football revenue to pay top dollar for coaches, assistants, and facilities that the other helmet teams do.
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I don't think Florida will part with Mullen, I'm 95% on that.
Missouri doesn't get mentioned much, for good reason, but they have been disappointing this year also.
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LSU smoke saying they are targeting Lincoln Riley. Not sure that's a great idea. They'll score boatloads of points, sure- but they won't stop anybody from scoring boatloads of points on them either.
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Missouri doesn't get mentioned much, for good reason, but they have been disappointing this year also.
They have an insanely good (by their standards) class coming in next year. I don't think he's going anywhere.
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nothing says Lincoln Riley has to bring along his previous D coordinator
in fact, that might not be allowed
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nothing says Lincoln Riley has to bring along his previous D coordinator
in fact, that might not be allowed
He's had a few different DC's, right?
I think he just might be a way better version of RichRod. An offensive guru who really just doesn't care too much about defense.
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maybe LSU money could motivate him to care about defense?
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I didn't think Mullen would get fired, and probably still don't, but it wouldn't shock me now. They fired some assisstants, which was obvious, but it appears bigger changes are needed, and Mullen may not be the guy to do it.
I'd put it at 60% he gets another year. I'd put it at 90% for Harbaugh. I had thought Mullen was a really good coach at the start of the year.
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With Texas (fans) sounding all but ready to officially move on from Sarkingham, it’s worth reviewing the finances:
“AUSTIN, Texas -- University of Texas System regents on Thursday approved a six-year, $34.2 million guaranteed contract for new Longhorns football coach Steve Sarkisian. The regents also approved more than $21 million in guaranteed contracts for Sarkisian's staff. Three of his top assistants got three-year guaranteed contracts worth more than $1 million annually. The highest-paid in that group will be defensive coordinator Pete Kwiatkowski at $1.7 million per year.” (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30963165/university-texas-regents-approve-football-coach-steve-sarkisian-342-million-contract)
That’s all on top of paying Tom Herman TWENTY FOUR MILLION to go away
https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/1459717018534379525
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it's only money
not an issue
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Who the eff said Texas would be firing Sark this season?
I mean, I'd be all for it, but there's zero chance of that happening.
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is there zero chance Texas and Sark lose to West Virginny and K-state?
cause if he loses the last 7 games to finish, I think he could be fired
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is there zero chance Texas and Sark lose to West Virginny and K-state?
cause if he loses the last 7 games to finish, I think he could be fired
I think it's about 90% likely Texas will lose to both KSU and WVU,
And Sark still won't be fired in year 1.
But believe me, I'd be AOK if it happened. It was an unbelievably terrible hire from day 1.
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Xavier Worthy.....
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/zNXvBiNNcrjDW/giphy.gif)
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ESPN says Michigan State is offering Tucker a $95 million 10 year contract. Tucker says Michigan State is a "destination job."
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32660480/with-new-contract-reportedly-works-michigan-state-coach-mel-tucker-says-spartans-destination-job (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32660480/with-new-contract-reportedly-works-michigan-state-coach-mel-tucker-says-spartans-destination-job)
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Xavier Worthy.....
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/zNXvBiNNcrjDW/giphy.gif)
He and Bijan Robinson are about the only bright spots on this dismal season.
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He and Bijan Robinson are about the only bright spots on this dismal season.
Both future 1st rd picks. Absolute studs.
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Running backs have been devalued by the NFL, a lot.
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it's only money
not an issue
The Texas administration (along with A&M to a lesser degree) is prime example for one of my Dad’s favorite idioms (while I was a kid living Texas, ironically): “Having money doesn’t necessarily translate to having any brains.”
Looking back it was his way of letting us kids know that his many contemporaries who were visibly doing financially better than he weren’t better off due to an inherent intellectual advantage. Look at Oklahoma, with a fraction of the hiring budget Texas has, yet holding the coaching advantage for much of the past half century of the Red River rivalry. Sooner smart trumping Longhorn's bottomless wallets.
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The Texas administration (along with A&M to a lesser degree) is prime example for one of my Dad’s favorite idioms (while I was a kid living Texas, ironically): “Having money doesn’t necessarily translate to having any brains.”
Looking back it was his way of letting us kids know that his many contemporaries who were visibly doing financially better than he weren’t better off due to an inherent intellectual advantage. Look at Oklahoma, with a fraction of the hiring budget Texas has, yet holding the coaching advantage for much of the past half century of the Red River rivalry. Sooner smart trumping Longhorn's bottomless wallets.
I don't disagree with the general sentiment, but Lincoln Riley is the 5th highest paid college head coach in the country. Sarkisian isn't in the Top 10. Riley's making almost 1.5x what Sarkisian is.
Stoops was also always compensated similarly to Mack Brown, and often times was ahead of him in salary, depending on whose contract extension was more recent.
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2021/10/nick-saban-again-nations-highest-paid-college-football-coach.html
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James Franklin signed a 10- year contract extension with Penn State for $70 million? Somewhat surprised by this.
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I am as well, I think ADs are panicking and signing coaches who are probably readily replaceable with similar because of the openings.
If Franklin left, I think PSU could sign someone as good if not better.
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someone panicked
finishing the season 2-5 with the wins over Maryland and Rutgers isn't even good
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Need help on the rundown on the who's who of the new wave of outsized coaching contracts:
Mel Tucker Michigan State - $95M 10 yrs?
Lincoln Riley USC - $80M + private jet?
James Franklin Penn State?
Mario Cristobal Miami?
Brian Kelly LSU?
Others?
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Iowa announced Friday that it reached a contract extension with football coach Kirk Ferentz, locking him down through the 2029 season. Per Iowa’s release, Ferentz’s total annual compensation is be $7 million annually. It includes a $500,00 base, $5.5 million in other forms of supplemental compensation and an extra $1 million longevity bonus.
“This contract extension would not be possible without substantial private support,” Iowa athletics director Gary Barta. “The pandemic has presented Iowa Athletics with significant financial challenges. We are grateful to the many donors and fans who have contributed directly toward the success of Hawkeye football.”
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sign the extension - dissolve the committee
A year and a half ago, the University of Iowa athletics formed an alumni advisory committee in the wake of a wave of players calling out the football program for fostering a culture of bullying and racism. Iowa football coach Kirk Ferentz made the sudden decision this week to dissolve that program with the hopes of reforming it in the future, according to a report from The Gazette.
The Gazette obtained text messages and emails from Ferentz and the committee chronicling the sequence of events that led to the committee’s disbandment.
“I have come to a decision that this is an appropriate time to dissolve our committee as it stands currently,” Ferentz wrote in a Tuesday email to the alumni committee. “As we start a new calendar year and prepare to move forward with our preparation for the 2022 season, I am giving thought to how we restructure the committee/board in a way that best serves our program moving forward.”
Per The Gazette, Ferentz had a “contentious” meeting with the committee Oct. 18 and, on Jan. 2, committee chair David Porter sent a string of text messages to the committee that Iowa should consider bringing in a new athletic director, football coach and staff.
Porter, a former offensive lineman for the Hawkeyes, cited Ferentz’s supposed blind loyalty to his staff — in particular his son, offensive coordinator Brian Ferentz — as his primary concern with Ferentz as head coach.
https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/Article/Iowa-football-coach-Kirk-Ferentz-disbands-alumni-diversity-advisory-committee-per-report-180761805/?fbclid=IwAR36RVnj3CBUQi8Tphfc4FeuNtgnyfuGofaz3803L9dUf9ZjCuwBc9W4_Hw (https://247sports.com/college/nebraska/Article/Iowa-football-coach-Kirk-Ferentz-disbands-alumni-diversity-advisory-committee-per-report-180761805/?fbclid=IwAR36RVnj3CBUQi8Tphfc4FeuNtgnyfuGofaz3803L9dUf9ZjCuwBc9W4_Hw)
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From Outkick:
"Edwards has agreed to take only 50% of the buyout money owed to him, according to The State Press. That means ASU will pay him roughly $4.4 million through 2024.”
“Why did Herm Edwards leave millions of dollars on the table? It’s not clear, and there’s no question it’s a strange move…Buyout money is pretty much always guaranteed…One possible explanation is ASU held possible violations over his head as leverage to void any guaranteed money.”
https://twitter.com/Outkick/status/1583192077831118851
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Another offseason, another trigger happy AD overdoing an underserved coaching extension.
“The Seminoles announced late Wednesday afternoon that Norvell has agreed to an extension through the 2029 season…Norvell’s annual average salary is now $8.05 million per year. That’s nearly double the $4.5 million he made this past season.”
“Norvell is 18-16 at FSU, and while being two games above .500 isn’t super impressive, the Seminoles are trending up under him. The team went 10-3 in 2022.”
Yes, the team went 10-3, but does a ten win season warrant nearly DOUBLING Norvell’s salary and locking him in through the rest of the DECADE?!?! None of those ten wins were against ranked opponents (though LSU would later be ranked). And FSU lost to all of its ranked opponents - #22 Wake Forest, #14 NC State, and #4 Clemson. It sounds more like Norvell is getting FSU to achieve the baseline of what they already should be achieving; nothing more, nothing less.
https://twitter.com/Outkick/status/1623668036493512706u
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I was scratching my head when I saw that one.
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a move to keep Coach Neon out when he leaves boulder
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From Outkick:
"Edwards has agreed to take only 50% of the buyout money owed to him, according to The State Press. That means ASU will pay him roughly $4.4 million through 2024.”
“Why did Herm Edwards leave millions of dollars on the table? It’s not clear, and there’s no question it’s a strange move…Buyout money is pretty much always guaranteed…One possible explanation is ASU held possible violations over his head as leverage to void any guaranteed money.”
https://twitter.com/Outkick/status/1583192077831118851
The guy who wrote that is a bit of a paste eater mediot, but that topic is actually sort of interesting.
I can't find a PDF of his contract, but the factors usually involve:
-Is there contract mitigation? - This is where your new salary comes off your buyout. So if ESPN pays him within $2.2 million of what he would've made, he comes out ahead
-Is there a duty to look for similar work? - Sometimes mitigation comes with stipulations of looking for a new job and taking one if offered. He doesn't seem to want to be a DC somewhere.
-The tax factor - On a buyout, you pay the full tax burden in Year 1. So if you don't have some reserves, that bill can be hefty for two years of capped income
-The fact that ASU could threaten litigation for the for cause thing, but not want to pay, and just say, "It's a pain for us and a pain for you, let's split the difference."
It's also laughable the ASU AD gave him a 100 percent buyout. No one gets that.
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I was scratching my head when I saw that one.
Contracts are a form of image management these days. Harder to recruit when you get the rep for being cheap. (The professionals really do have this dumb sport by the balls and always have)
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Another offseason, another trigger happy AD overdoing an underserved coaching extension.
“The Seminoles announced late Wednesday afternoon that Norvell has agreed to an extension through the 2029 season…Norvell’s annual average salary is now $8.05 million per year. That’s nearly double the $4.5 million he made this past season.”
“Norvell is 18-16 at FSU, and while being two games above .500 isn’t super impressive, the Seminoles are trending up under him. The team went 10-3 in 2022.”
Yes, the team went 10-3, but does a ten win season warrant nearly DOUBLING Norvell’s salary and locking him in through the rest of the DECADE?!?! None of those ten wins were against ranked opponents (though LSU would later be ranked). And FSU lost to all of its ranked opponents - #22 Wake Forest, #14 NC State, and #4 Clemson. It sounds more like Norvell is getting FSU to achieve the baseline of what they already should be achieving; nothing more, nothing less.
https://twitter.com/Outkick/status/1623668036493512706u
This trend is real and bizarre. It's as if ADs can't look at depth charts and tell when a team has peaked or not. It's as if they're required to buy the full-bore optimism they have to put out there as a front to the public, but doing it privately with tons of money on the line.
FSU may be good next year, but they'll come back down to earth once their Houdini QB leaves.
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Just another exhibit of people being in high-tier, decision-making positions not needing to be even somewhat bright. Intelligence doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for many job positions where it would come in handy.
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This trend is real and bizarre. It's as if ADs can't look at depth charts and tell when a team has peaked or not. It's as if they're required to buy the full-bore optimism they have to put out there as a front to the public, but doing it privately with tons of money on the line.
FSU may be good next year, but they'll come back down to earth once their Houdini QB leaves.
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Just another exhibit of people being in high-tier, decision-making positions not needing to be even somewhat bright. Intelligence doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for many job positions where it would come in handy.
There's more than a few effective ways I can try to make an analogy about this but look at how many movie sequels there are for exhausted film franchises like Fast and the Furious and Transformers. As soon as those franchises an scored an initial hit a bloated Hollywood studio immediately greenlit big budgets to churn out more for the sake of "franchise potential." Norvell scored a "hit" last season, and similarly, the FSU AD wastes no time greenlighting a string of risky sequels.
And meanwhile the FSU AD obliviously pats themselves on the back as though their very reckless extension reinforces and justifies their coaching hire. Compare that with the situation in Pittsburgh. Pat Narduzzi has gone 20-7 in the past two seasons, finishing in the Top 25 both times - this after 6 seasons of mostly 7 or 8 win seasons outside the Top 25. And despite that breakthrough Narduzzi is still listed at around $4M (with bonus options potentially breaking $5M). Last March Narduzzi's contract was extended through 2030, but given the stability and gradual improvement his tenure has provided Pitt, it's certainly more warranted than Norvell's more reactively expensive contract.
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This trend is real and bizarre. It's as if ADs can't look at depth charts and tell when a team has peaked or not. It's as if they're required to buy the full-bore optimism they have to put out there as a front to the public, but doing it privately with tons of money on the line.
FSU may be good next year, but they'll come back down to earth once their Houdini QB leaves.
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Just another exhibit of people being in high-tier, decision-making positions not needing to be even somewhat bright. Intelligence doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for many job positions where it would come in handy.
What does a peaked depth chart look like?
In the end, you have coaches pushing for whatever security measure they can get, in a field where the point is often to fire a guy. And for whatever reason, athletic departments reward the first spark of success.
And the downside is that if FSU isn’t willing to do something like this, someone else would probably take him off their hands.
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And meanwhile the FSU AD obliviously pats themselves on the back as though their very reckless extension reinforces and justifies their coaching hire. Compare that with the situation in Pittsburgh. Pat Narduzzi has gone 20-7 in the past two seasons, finishing in the Top 25 both times - this after 6 seasons of mostly 7 or 8 win seasons outside the Top 25. And despite that breakthrough Narduzzi is still listed at around $4M (with bonus options potentially breaking $5M). Last March Narduzzi's contract was extended through 2030, but given the stability and gradual improvement his tenure has provided Pitt, it's certainly more warranted than Norvell's more reactively expensive contract.
So this explanation gives Pitt a little too much credit.
In Pat's first three years, he went 8-5, 8-5, 5-7. That last year, he made $1.8 million. For that, he got a 7-year deal (so likely a big buyout), and a 66 percent raise. The deal also included some rather nice escalator raises. So for 21-17, he got this:
2018: $3 mil
2019: $3.2 mil
2020: $4 mil
2021: $4.8 mil
Then 2021 happened and he got a raise, up to a reported $5.8 million. If the escalator is similar to the last deal, he'll be at at least $6.5 when Norvell is at $8.
So he took over a mid-level program. Was a little better than the mid-level it had been. Then got 7 years. He followed that up with three more years of being mid-level, had a breakthrough season with a cool offense, got a raise and seven more years, and promptly ditched that offensive identity to become ground and pound. Now credit where it's due, they did manage to grind out 9-4, but there's not much evidence to say "ah-hah, this is a wise long-term investment."
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What does a peaked depth chart look like?
And for whatever reason, athletic departments reward the first spark of success.
Peaked depth chart? I like the phrase!
As of this week, toss in UCLA as a football program who just handed their coach an extension on the heels of a peaked depth chart.
From UCLA’s official press release: “Chip Kelly has signed a contract extension to remain head football coach at UCLA through 2027…” (Kelly was previously on contract through 2025.) This isn't a terrible extension, only adding two years to Kelly's contract to get ahead of graduating the current signing class.
But look at what UCLA’s press release uses as justifications for extending Chip Kelly:
“The ground attack was especially potent, as running back Zach Charbonnet led the charge behind an offensive-line unit regarded as one of the nation's best…Charbonnet averaged a conference-best 135.9 rushing yards and an FBS-leading 168.0 all-purpose yards.”
“Under Kelly's tutelage, signal caller Dorian Thompson-Robinson etched his name in the UCLA record book. Across Thompson-Robinson's school-record 48 starts at quarterback, he set new career standards for completions (860), touchdown passes (88), total touchdowns (116) passing yards (10,710), quarterback rushing yards (1,826), and total offense (12,536 yards).”
“For his work in the classroom, wide receiver Jake Bobo earned a First Team spot on the 2022 CSC Academic All-America Team.”
Since Bobo was also the team’s leading receiving, that’s the vast majority of UCLA’s production lost with DTR and Charbonnet moving on as well. A peaked depth chart indeed. Not to mention numerous experienced starters lost from last year, though this can be offset with Kelly bringing in a high amount of transfers, something he’s a big fan of doing.
UCLA isn’t expected to be as good next year, especially on offense, but there you have it – an AD more than happy to grant an extension in the face of mucho program uncertainty intensified by UCLA’s move to the Big Ten.
https://twitter.com/UCLAFootball/status/1631716252753305612
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The Athletic recently highlighted some of the most impressive college football coaching contracts and the perks that come with them. While Sanders can’t rep UA gear or cover up a Nike swoosh, Colorado makes up for this stipulation in the perks they provide to the head coach.
The Buffaloes grant Sanders two courtesy SUVs or a $1,200 per month supplemental salary. Sanders has one of the most valuable car perks for college coaches around the nation. Only three other new head coaches are also allowed two vehicles in their contracts: Arizona State’s Kenny Dillingham, Wisconsin’s Luke Fickell, and UNLV’s Barry Odom.
Another interesting element of Sanders’ specific contract with Colorado is that Sanders keeps the rights to all his “trademarks, logos, copyrights, and catchphrases” while working as the head coach at Colorado. This is a unique element. Most head football coaches simply do not have the same level of intellectual property that Coach Prime possesses. All in all, Sanders has a five-year deal with Colorado worth $5.5 million in 2023.
Head football coach Matt Rhule receives unexpectedly great perks at Nebraska
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/nebraska-proves-to-be-an-unexpectedly-ideal-coaching-destination-according-to-college-football-perks-analysis/ar-AA190rUm?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=566f8c0e443c4322a1fabece3f763667&ei=81 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/nebraska-proves-to-be-an-unexpectedly-ideal-coaching-destination-according-to-college-football-perks-analysis/ar-AA190rUm?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=566f8c0e443c4322a1fabece3f763667&ei=81)
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With 'insiders' reporting that Texas A&M will fire Jimbo Fisher as soon as today or tomorrow, I'm pulling @utee94's quote from another thread to jumpstart my points:
Ags are getting desperate with Texas and OU coming into the conference next year, and nothing to show for their 10-year headstart.
Even so, I didn't think they'd pull the trigger on Jimbo. It's not just his salary, it's all of the assistants (that they JUST extended), and then hiring the new coach and paying any potential buyout there, and then hiring a new staff and paying any potential buyout there.
The total cost isn't a mere $77M, it's going to be over $100M, with the first $30M-$40M to be executed immediately.
I did NOT know:
-Jimbo's contract has $77M left; in his sixth season at College Station I figured his buyout would be whittled below $50M by now
-The name brand assistants were already extended - DC Durkin & OC Petrino
More details:
-Heard on sports radio this morning that Jimbo's "fully guaranteed" contract (faceplant) does not include an Offset, meaning, if hired elsewhere, Texas A&M's buyout isn't offset by whatever new salary Jimbo agrees to elsewhere - a common industry practice
-Buyouts for likely candidates are already under discussion - see below
My thoughts:
-I wish Texas A&M would hold off one more year. Yes, this season is a disappointment, with how much the defense gave up Vs Miami and Ole Miss and especially the 2nd Half collapse Vs an Alabama team they controlled in the 1st Half. It felt like everything was in place for a big year before Oklahoma and Texas join the SEC. But injuries hit certain positions hard and the Aggie staff was outcoached in all of A&M's bigger matchups.
-I wish A&M would wait one more year because with their recent top notch recruiting classes maturing into upperclassmen, I really think next year is worth one last shot to see if a season can finally break right for the current A&M staff. Crazy to say, but A&M might have the most loaded SEC roster going into next season.
-I would also hate to throw away this much cash just to reactively start over, which brings it's own hectic uncertainties. But if any College(s) can afford six-figure overreactions it's A&M (and Texas).
https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples/status/1723701271994028341
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I’m really not onboard with this. Although the money won’t be coming from my pocket ( and it never will) it just seems like a colossal waste.
I guess that there are just people that have unbelievable amounts of money that they can swing this. It really pisses me off how they just practically wrote a blank check and handed it to him after one pretty good season. You have to wonder if the fire and drive diminishes a little once you figure out you don’t have to hold up your end to still get paid. I just simply refuse to believe it doesn’t, and given the way our team has played the last few years the results speak for themselves.
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We jumped the shark on this one. Gus was the 2nd highest buyout at $20 MM. ours is a whopping $75 MM, plus whatever we owe staffers and coaches.
And I still felt like Fisher had his best days in front, not behind. Hard to say either way.
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Hey Gigem, like I said on the other thread, I feel for you and all the other ag fans. And of course, I can directly sympathize since Texas has done plenty of abrupt hiring and firing of our own in recent years.
I too would be frustrated, especially with the feeling that it was the idiot big money donors that screwed it up to begin with, with an unwise fully guaranteed contract, and now it's the idiot big money donors pulling the trigger perhaps too soon.
Anyway, we'll see what the future holds. Jumping on the coaching carousel is often fraught with peril, but it sometimes, eventually works out for the better.
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https://youtu.be/ahxG3iPeVcU
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Hey Gigem, like I said on the other thread, I feel for you and all the other ag fans. And of course, I can directly sympathize since Texas has done plenty of abrupt hiring and firing of our own in recent years.
I too would be frustrated, especially with the feeling that it was the idiot big money donors that screwed it up to begin with, with an unwise fully guaranteed contract, and now it's the idiot big money donors pulling the trigger perhaps too soon.
Anyway, we'll see what the future holds. Jumping on the coaching carousel is often fraught with peril, but it sometimes, eventually works out for the better.
I don’t know anymore. I just have apathy mostly. And now these artificial conferences just seem so out of place and the sport is losing its identity.
Yoy start to think about teams that literally have no chance and you wonder if your own team is just cannon fodder for the rest. Arkansas was a proud historic program and they’ve never won the SEC. 30 plus years and they’ve never won. Ole Miss has not won it in 50-60 years. Never even played in the title game like Ark (0-4). Not even gonna mention perennial losers like SCar, Miss St. How does it get so lopsided? At least in the NFL almost every team has had their day.
But sure let’s jump on the carousel again. Whatever.
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I don’t know anymore. I just have apathy mostly. And now these artificial conferences just seem so out of place and the sport is losing its identity.
Yoy start to think about teams that literally have no chance and you wonder if your own team is just cannon fodder for the rest. Arkansas was a proud historic program and they’ve never won the SEC. 30 plus years and they’ve never won. Ole Miss has not won it in 50-60 years. Never even played in the title game like Ark (0-4). Not even gonna mention perennial losers like SCar, Miss St. How does it get so lopsided? At least in the NFL almost every team has had their day.
But sure let’s jump on the carousel again. Whatever.
Yep. You're Texas A&M. You're a real football program. But in the new CFB world, you're in the same place as my team, Purdue.
Welcome. I'm not gonna lie. It sucks.
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Real program? Ha, we fooled you !
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TAM is currently in the Urban Meyer phase. TAM must be loaded given Jimbo's buyout.
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Durkin and Petrino are great coordinators (not HCs). If you can't do well with them, what the hell are you doing?!?
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TAM is currently in the Urban Meyer phase. TAM must be loaded given Jimbo's buyout.
They dream big. UM might take them up on it though I expect he's pretty flush now. It wouldn't shock me, then he has a health issue in two years.
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or he tanks like the NFL and forces them to pay the buyout
70 mill wouldn't hurt on your way out
I thought giving Frost 7 mill on the way out was bad
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Durkin and Petrino are great coordinators (not HCs). If you can't do well with them, what the hell are you doing?!?
Durkin's defense has been pretty good.
I'm not sure I agree that Petrino is a great coordinator, but even if he is, it doesn't matter because I don't think Jimbo ever really gave him a chance to do his job.
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We jumped the shark on this one. Gus was the 2nd highest buyout at $20 MM. ours is a whopping $75 MM, plus whatever we owe staffers and coaches.
And I still felt like Fisher had his best days in front, not behind. Hard to say either way.
Don't feel bad. Our coach's buyout is at $100 mil and the contract is for 10 years.
Fortunately for us, he just fielded the worst defense in program history. Oh, wait....
To all outsiders, it was the same AD--Scott Woodward--who saddled A&M with Jimbo's contract and LSU with Kelly's. Hopelessly attaching schools to overpaid coaches who can't deliver is his superpower. A&M can at least buy their way out if they feel like it. We're stuck.
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I don't consider Kelly a failure at LSU, he's still got some time to prove himself.
I do consider that weird fake cajun accent or whatever it was, to be a failure. But near as I can tell, he hasn't attempted to do that again.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8suwVyF.png)
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the big ten isn't even tryin
Iowa could have been on the list but kept kirk
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the big ten isn't even tryin
Iowa could have been on the list but kept kirk
B1G is on the list. Jim Mora, $12M. Congratulations.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8suwVyF.png)
Jesus A&M....
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Don't feel bad. Our coach's buyout is at $100 mil and the contract is for 10 years.
Fortunately for us, he just fielded the worst defense in program history. Oh, wait....
To all outsiders, it was the same AD--Scott Woodward--who saddled A&M with Jimbo's contract and LSU with Kelly's. Hopelessly attaching schools to overpaid coaches who can't deliver is his superpower. A&M can at least buy their way out if they feel like it. We're stuck.
too early to call on Kelly. It's still only year 2. Defense might suck, but man does he got an offense.
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Jesus, he did win the West in Year 1. WTF do you do when your coach exceeds expectations in the first year and underperforms the 2nd? We don't have that problem.
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the big ten isn't even tryin
Iowa could have been on the list but kept kirk
Lets see where Mel's suit goes first
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This is a guy I'm surprised hasn't gotten any talk as Michigan State's next coach, but it seems like the other MSU is interested
https://twitter.com/CFBHome/status/1724501495641772200?s=20
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too early to call on Kelly. It's still only year 2. Defense might suck, but man does he got an offense.
And it looks like he's about to land Bryce Underwood
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Meanwhile, rumors are circulating in the national media that Sanders could be a possible head coaching candidate at Texas A&M. Texas A&M fired head football coach Jimbo Fisher on Sunday.
ESPN pundit Stephen A. Smith said Sanders needs to go to Texas A&M and the SEC.
“That’s what I’ve been saying, Deion Sanders in the SEC,” Smith said. “With that vault that they have available to them. Them hogs that he could recruit. He doesn’t have them at Colorado, and he ain’t going to get them. I don’t think they’ll do it. Texas A&M. Primetime, Deion Sanders in the SEC? That needs to happen.”
Coach Prime immediately addressed the rumors and Smith's comments at the start of his Tuesday press conference.
"I want to win, I want to win a game," Sanders said Tuesday. "So you think I really do sit down and think about that kind of stuff? Let what strikes me about that, about myself that you guys think I really sit down and say 'Ah yeah, Stephen A., yeah.' C'mon. I'm good. We got to win. Let's focus on this week when we play Friday so we lose a game of practice."
Colorado Buffaloes beat reporter Brian Howell said that should Sanders make another move, he’d either have to leave his children, Shedeur Sanders and Shilo Sanders, behind at CU or risk them having to sit out the 2024 season as two-time transfers.
Sanders was asked what he would tell parents if they were to come to him and ask about his future at Colorado.
"I tell them what I told them when they came: I'm here. I'm here," Sanders said. "I tell them my mother's here. My sister's here. My dog is here. My daughter's here. Three of my sons are here. My other daughter comes during every home game. We here. I get mail here. I pay taxes here. I'm here."
"I don't hear that. Maybe our recruiting staff hears that, but I don't hear it. I'm too honest with parents, I'm going to tell them the truth," Sanders added.
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And it looks like he's about to land Bryce Underwood
yeah, which is insane honestly.
Ah well. Looking like Chip Kelly is about to get fired, maybe they can get Dante Moore in the portal.
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Jesus, he did win the West in Year 1. WTF do you do when your coach exceeds expectations in the first year and underperforms the 2nd? We don't have that problem.
I wrote a bunch of stuff but then decided to shorten it to the bottom line. I'm not dogging him in the sense that I want him gone right now or think he should be on the hot seat at this time. I'm looking ahead. I see a lot of signs that he's not building a program that can compete with UGA, Bama, Michigan, Ohio State, etc. And that is absolutely the goal when you pay somebody that much money. And I find it ridiculous that we got ourselves into a contract we can't extricate ourselves from if the seasons become untenable.
Hell, this season would be untenable if he didn't have an all-timer of a QB, and that's hardly a sustainable model to build even mediocre seasons like this on.
There's probably a floor with Kelly. We'll probably never be Orgeron-bad with him here. On the other hand, I don't expect him to win the division a bunch more times, the conference or playoff/NCs.
I hope he proves me wrong.
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I see a lot of signs that he's not building a program that can compete with UGA, Bama, Michigan, Ohio State, etc. And that is absolutely the goal when you pay somebody that much money.
Yes, a 10 year deal worth $100M! Only Saban and Kirby Smart have larger contracts. Mel Tucker's contract was valued at about the same as Kelly's.
And I find it ridiculous that we got ourselves into a contract we can't extricate ourselves from if the seasons become untenable.
And Yes(!), to quote from a sports blog (https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-football/what-brian-kelly-s-buyout-lsu-cfb-head-coach-s-contract-structure-explored): "In terms of buyout, the school would owe Kelly 90% of his remaining contract if he is fired without cause at any point in his tenure. There's a caveat: if Brian Kelly wins a national title with LSU, and the university still fires him, it will owe him 100% of his contract."
Unlike A&M's deal with Fisher, LSU's does include a financial offset.
So Brian Kelly's contract is almost entirely guaranteed and almost as costly as what Texas A&M signed up for.
Guess what is the strongest factor between these two insufferable contracts? Both were tailored by the same Athletic Director - Scott Woodward!
A perfect case study for this thread. The man who set up TWO(!) SEC Athletic programs for financial ruin:
(https://i.imgur.com/B427nnw.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/B427nnw.png)
That does not look the part of an athletic director.
Athletic food hall sampler, yes.
AD, no.
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He looks like the comic who was the friend on King of Queens
(https://i.imgur.com/uOzDjWL.png)
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Have they been seen together?
(https://i.imgur.com/efHfYOz.jpg)
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A perfect case study for this thread. The man who set up TWO(!) SEC Athletic programs for financial ruin:
Sort of. Probably just us. He set up A&M for a lot of financial pain in the ass, but they aren't even closed to ruined by this.
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He looks like the comic who was the friend on King of Queens
But also like:
(https://i.imgur.com/bVHcO2C.png)
Outkick turns discussion of Syracuse's Dino Babers buyout into a fitting bashing of Scott Woodward:
https://twitter.com/Outkick/status/1726308238000640119
This is exactly the point I've made for years!!! - "Athletic directors, university presidents, and all the money men need to slow down on the raises and extensions after one great year. Too often, that one great season is never duplicated after the fat raise and extension hits the coach. And too often the powers that be at schools are so quick to reward because they want to reward themselves for supposedly making the right hire. They want to say, “Look, we’ve arrived.”"
"That was the case with Orgeron after winning the national championship at LSU in 2019. He was already in his dream job making $4 million a year, and no one was trying to hire him. Yet, LSU athletic director Scott Woodward gave him a six-year extension and a raise to $7 million a year."
"And less than two years later, Woodward fired Orgeron. Like Babers, he started free falling soon after the new contract ink dried. He dropped to 5-5 in 2020 and to 4-3 in 2021. Orgeron walked away with a $17 million buyout. Great fiscal job, Scott."
"It was also Woodward who hired Fisher away from Florida State after the 2017 season for $75 million over 10 years – the richest contract for a college football coach at the time in history. Had Woodward looked beyond the national championship in 2013 and the excellent years around it, he may have noticed something. Fisher was 5-6 in 2017. The program was descending. And Fisher didn’t want to stay anyway. So, Woodward could’ve hired him for much cheaper. But Woodward wanted to show off."
The article could've gone further, noting Woodward's awful follow on work at LSU, similarly vastly overpaying Brian Kelly.
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Just plain bad decision making with other peoples' money.
He'd fit in perfectly in DC.
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(https://i.imgur.com/HLwodMe.png)
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@betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) should be happy. His Boilers got the IU head coach whacked.
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Yeah, doubt it was us when this:
(https://i.imgur.com/339y7gx.png)
Was followed by a 3-9 season.
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Elko to Texas A&M. We'll see if the fans get pissed again, and they revoke
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Elko to Texas A&M. We'll see if the fans get pissed again, and they revoke
This is the craziest coaching search saga I think I've ever seen. How on Earth did they fire Jimbo without having the succession plan already in place?
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The Tennessee stories were pretty amazing back a few.
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they almost never have a great succession plan already in place
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This is the craziest coaching search saga I think I've ever seen. How on Earth did they fire Jimbo without having the succession plan already in place?
The only succession plans that would have justified that buyout would have been to have a deal inked with Saban or Meyer.
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The only succession plans that would have justified that buyout would have been to have a deal inked with Saban or Meyer.
Right. I mean, that's pretty much my point. This isn't like any other "normal" coach firing and buyout.
If you're going to pull the trigger on flushing a fully guaranteed $77M down the toilet, the process absolutely MUST begin with determining your next coach, and then locking him up.
Realistically they weren't going to get Saban or Meyer, but they absolutely should have vetted the field and worked through back-channels to make sure they had a done deal, before shooting from the hip at... Mark Stoops? And then within 12 hours throwing the offer out to Elko...?
Their athletic director should be fired for this total incompetence. I'm not even an aggie, just a Texan, and I'm utterly embarrassed for them.
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Right. I mean, that's pretty much my point. This isn't like any other "normal" coach firing and buyout.
If you're going to pull the trigger on flushing a fully guaranteed $77M down the toilet, the process absolutely MUST begin with determining your next coach, and then locking him up.
Realistically they weren't going to get Saban or Meyer, but they absolutely should have vetted the field and worked through back-channels to make sure they had a done deal, before shooting from the hip at... Mark Stoops? And then within 12 hours throwing the offer out to Elko...?
Their athletic director should be fired for this total incompetence. I'm not even an aggie, just a Texan, and I'm utterly embarrassed for them.
Honestly Elko might work out but the AD who screwed up is whoever signed the deal that left them with that enormous buyout in the first place.
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EL PASO, Texas (AP) — UTEP fired football coach Dana Dimel on Sunday, a day after the end of his fifth losing season in six years.
The Miners finished 3-9 after a 42-28 loss to undefeated Liberty before a sparse crowd at the Sun Bowl. It was the fourth time UTEP failed to win more than three games under Dimel, who had a year left on his contract.
Dimel ended a 16-year absence from head coaching when he took over the Miners in 2018. He had three winning seasons in Wyoming from 1997-99 before three losing years with Houston.
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This is the craziest coaching search saga I think I've ever seen. How on Earth did they fire Jimbo without having the succession plan already in place?
New to this utee?
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apparently, Charlie Strong, Tom Herman, and Steve were planned successions.
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New to this utee?
Not really. In fact I'm an expert in the matter-- we've fired and hired coaches 3 times in the last 10 years.
So, given my expertise on the matter, it really is something, when I say that this coach firing/search is particularly crazy.
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apparently, Charlie Strong, Tom Herman, and Steve were planned successions.
Sarkisian had already agreed to a contract in principle when Tom Herman was fired.
So, well-- yeah.
And in none of those cases was a $77 million payout haphazardly undertaken with zero plan for succession.
Y'all aren't this dumb so I guess it's pot stirring time.
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well, in my experience, Billy C., Bo Pelini, & Mike Riley were not signed and sealed at the time of firing.
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well, in my experience, Billy C., Bo Pelini, & Mike Riley were not signed and sealed at the time of firing.
So y'all threw $77M into a fire and let them go, yes?
No, of course not. That's not at all what happened.
So yeah, this is a unique and pretty crazy situation. Which is what I stated.
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well, in my experience, Billy C., Bo Pelini, & Mike Riley were not signed and sealed at the time of firing.
Prolly because no one else was going to come calling
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it's only unique because of the record dollar amount
it's a pretty crazy number, you're obviously right about that
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Prolly because no one else was going to come calling
prolly because, as utee has pointed out, the AD was a blithering idiot being pushed by donors of substance
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He looks like the comic who was the friend on King of Queens
(https://i.imgur.com/uOzDjWL.png)
He has or had a smokin' hot wife.
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The Tennessee stories were pretty amazing back a few.
This.
They literally hired their 17th choice.
But even now, with a guy who is winning some, he's an OU alum and they could poach him whenever they want.
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But yeah, hiring the Dook guy isn't going to impress anyone.
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Tom Allen’s buyout makes Indiana’s coaching change a pricey move.
In the 2020 season shortened by COVID, Allen guided Indiana to a 6-2 record. He signed a new contract in March 2021 that included a fully guaranteed buyout of $20.8 million if fired before Dec. 1, 2023.
_____________________________
I would have waited a few daze
that's a lot of money for a basketball school
easier for the Aggies to pay $70 million
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I'm just razzing utee not because he isn't following along (he obviously is) just that there's not a lot of evidence (especially lately) to suggest that there's any rational judgment being applied to college football coaching hires or much anything else in college football.
in a way, I liken the Jimbo deep-end buyout to an Albert Belle type deal in '97 when we went from the first $5 mil guy to the first $10 mil guy in under five years, Of course A-Rod hit $20m within four years. Now we shrug at the Tom Allen buyouts (which is no less insane), and I don't see IU with any plans? The 'extensions' are one of the most mind numbing practices i've ever seen.
I work for a PE owned firm. The incentives that are used to keep me (and others) around/happy make a ton of sense, and they are largely mutually beneficial. on the other hand, these deals to 'tie up' a guy by effectively agreeing to pay him (once you fire him) not to coach or to coach somewhere else are simply remarkable. The schools are scared of their own shadow (boosters) and have no discipline, strike that, they act with such recklessness.
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a few years ago we were appalled by the buyout for Kirk Ferentz
apparently it was enough to keep the coach and it probably worked out just fine
maybe because the AD at the time couldn't come up with a better succession plan, but the money was obviously a factor
heck, the CU Buffs paid Prime more than they could afford. Looked like a good deal for 3 games.
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Tom Allen’s buyout makes Indiana’s coaching change a pricey move.
In the 2020 season shortened by COVID, Allen guided Indiana to a 6-2 record. He signed a new contract in March 2021 that included a fully guaranteed buyout of $20.8 million if fired before Dec. 1, 2023.
_____________________________
I would have waited a few daze
that's a lot of money for a basketball school
easier for the Aggies to pay $70 million
I'd give him a shot in the divisionless Big Ten. What does Indiana football think it is? Hell, Mel Tucker would still be at MSU, even at 4-8, without the for cause out, and MSU football is WAY ahead of Indiana. And in this era of college football, how useful is being 8-4? Bowls are at best selected based on fan size, and at worst based on who hasn't been there in a minute. You are either in the playoff or not, because the consolation prize is a meaningless game where every halfway decent player skips. Why would you pay $20 million to at best get into one of those games?
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yup, smart ADs would get a coach for a bargain that would put enough butts in the stadium seats to pay their salary
and not a penny more
cause the TV money is going to run the remainder of the athletic department
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yup, smart ADs would get a coach for a bargain that would put enough butts in the stadium seats to pay their salary
and not a penny more
cause the TV money is going to run the remainder of the athletic department
And I'm not pretending MSU is more than it is. John L Smith deserved to get fired, because based on what college football was in the mid 2000s, Michigan State should at least be making bowls. Today, who cares? There is no difference between 9-3 and 3-9, other than playing in a randomly selected exhibition game, where every NFL prospect opts out. If your ceiling is that, which is like 120 schools, why buy out a coach for not hitting your ceiling, when your ceiling is still irrelevant?
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But yeah, hiring the Dook guy isn't going to impress anyone.
Ultimately I think he was a good hire, and the one they could have and should have negotiated with and had wrapped up before announcing the firing of Jimbo. They weren't going to be able to grab any of the top names, not without putting in place an even MORE one-sided deal than Jimbo had, anyway.
He's not a splash hire that a lot of ags seemed to want, but I think he'll be a stabilizing influence and a calm steward, to transition them out of the madness that was Jimbo's reign.
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Is hiring a "steward" a good thing?
He seems to know defense. That's good.
He just went .500 in the ACC and finished the year 2 games worse than his first year there.
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Is hiring a "steward" a good thing?
He seems to know defense. That's good.
He just went .500 in the ACC and finished the year 2 games worse than his first year there.
I consider it better than hiring a hot mess, or a dumpster fire.
Is there some "home run" hire they could realistically get, that has been overlooked?
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Days days are numbered. Several media outlets are rumored to be looking into who hired the PI firm. I figure O$U will keep Day until after whatever “butt suck bowl game*” they’re gifted and then fire him if he doesn’t bail first.
*a phrase I read and borrowed from an anonymous buckeye fan during a schadenfreude scan of buckeye message boards.
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There is no difference between 9-3 and 3-9, other than playing in a randomly selected exhibition game, where every NFL prospect opts out. If your ceiling is that, which is like 120 schools, why buy out a coach for not hitting your ceiling, when your ceiling is still irrelevant?
I think 9-3 puts more fans in seats, and one's hopes for a major upset are higher. You get ranked somewhere. A coach can survive at 9-3 at most schools.
As for Day, I would NOT fire him without a pretty clear idea who I was going to hire. He'd likely to be the winningest coach ever fired.
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As for Day, I would NOT fire him without a pretty clear idea who I was going to hire. He'd likely to be the winningest coach ever fired.
"Desperate times call for...." Urban Meyer.
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One might think "Well, these ADs make rational decisions, they get paid a lot to do that." and then one looks at the decisions they do make ...
One might think leaders of large companies in the same vein, but in my experience, they often would be "influenced" by weird stuff and make poor decisions.
I suspect it's human nature in larger organizations of any kind.
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Is hiring a "steward" a good thing?
how much does a steward get paid???
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Breaking: Oklahoma OC Jeff Lebby has agreed to a five-year deal to become the next head coach of Mississippi State Football,
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Florida Football: Billy Napier needs more than just better talent in 2024 | Fan Recap (https://fanrecap.com/florida-football-billy-napier-needs-more-than-just-better-talent-in-2024/?utm_source=florida-gators&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=ncaaf-mk&fbclid=IwAR3einu0tSbvA9-JDs_JGkqCXKCHoSJK7Yucp-_5sa2rh_x__OU8QFvhHac)
Yeah, sure, if you catch all the breaks, your record will be better....
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...they absolutely should have vetted the field and worked through back-channels to make sure they had a done deal, before shooting from the hip at... Mark Stoops?And then within 12 hours throwing the offer out to Elko...?
But yeah, hiring the Dook guy isn't going to impress anyone.
I keep forgetting Elko was A&M’s DC 2018-21, which were Jimbo’s first four seasons. I’m sure that played a part thanks to mutual familiarity between Elko and A&M’s admin. On the other hand, if you’re A&M is Elko who you really want – more of the old guard? Who you just fired at an eight/nine figure cost?
More importantly, I’m not convinced Elko has proven himself worthy of a job as big as A&M. Yes his first two years at Duke resulted in winning seasons, but it seems Elko is getting hired based on Duke’s overpraised win Vs a four loss Clemson team with a stunted offense. Outside of beating Clemson, Duke has performed average Vs standard ACC fare, predictably losing to ranked Notre Dame, Florida State, Louisville, North Carolina, and also losing to a bad Virginia team.
That’s enough to bill Elko as worth replacing Fisher?
Texas A&M hiring Elko because he beat Clemson on national TV reminds me of Texas rushing out to hire Tom Herman based largely on his opportunistic Houston squad beating #3 Oklahoma to open the 2016 season.
I would’ve gone after Lane Kiffin. He’d turn around A&M’s underachieving offense. He knows how to play the NIL game. His brash rhetoric would be well received in Aggieland, and since his USC days, Kiffin has developed into a much more well-rounded program manager.
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Elko seems like a shot in the dark, more or less. They may be doing a Tennessee.
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Florida Football: Billy Napier needs more than just better talent in 2024 | Fan Recap (https://fanrecap.com/florida-football-billy-napier-needs-more-than-just-better-talent-in-2024/?utm_source=florida-gators&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=ncaaf-mk&fbclid=IwAR3einu0tSbvA9-JDs_JGkqCXKCHoSJK7Yucp-_5sa2rh_x__OU8QFvhHac)
Yeah, sure, if you catch all the breaks, your record will be better....
Iowa/Nebraska
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Good comparison, Iowa got some breaks, Nebbie have them go the other way, TOs etc. I'd guess Florida will get "back" at some point, they'll get an elite QB with a good enough OL and good coaching and get to ten wins, at least, maybe the playoff. I watched a few of their games this season and agree they seem very undisciplined. They lose their cool too often and get in the wrong spot on D.
Napier probably has next year, and then ...
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And I'm not pretending MSU is more than it is. John L Smith deserved to get fired, because based on what college football was in the mid 2000s, Michigan State should at least be making bowls. Today, who cares? There is no difference between 9-3 and 3-9, other than playing in a randomly selected exhibition game, where every NFL prospect opts out. If your ceiling is that, which is like 120 schools, why buy out a coach for not hitting your ceiling, when your ceiling is still irrelevant?
There is no point. It's a no-win situation. You might as well just cancel football as a sport for these teams, but there's too much ego in both the athletic departments and the fan base to do that. And if you're going to have a football program, you have to at least do enough to make the fans and media think you actually care what their results are. Even if their ceiling is meaningless bowl game while being cannon fodder on TV for the 15 or so programs that are relevant a few weeks a year.
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can't cancel football
football TV $$$ pays for the rest of the athletic department
I suppose you could cancel the entire athletic department
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And I'm not pretending MSU is more than it is. John L Smith deserved to get fired, because based on what college football was in the mid 2000s, Michigan State should at least be making bowls. Today, who cares? There is no difference between 9-3 and 3-9, other than playing in a randomly selected exhibition game, where every NFL prospect opts out. If your ceiling is that, which is like 120 schools, why buy out a coach for not hitting your ceiling, when your ceiling is still irrelevant?
If you’re a burned out, cynical and disconnected fan, absolutely!
But people like that don’t pay the bills.
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It's a good point to ponder what programs like "Kansas State" are desiring, realistically. Paying for nonrevenue sports has to be near the top of the AD's list. Mediocre CFB brings in the money, if it also brings whining by boosters.
At least there is some turnover at the top.
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Right. I mean, that's pretty much my point. This isn't like any other "normal" coach firing and buyout.
If you're going to pull the trigger on flushing a fully guaranteed $77M down the toilet, the process absolutely MUST begin with determining your next coach, and then locking him up.
Realistically they weren't going to get Saban or Meyer, but they absolutely should have vetted the field and worked through back-channels to make sure they had a done deal, before shooting from the hip at... Mark Stoops? And then within 12 hours throwing the offer out to Elko...?
Their athletic director should be fired for this total incompetence. I'm not even an aggie, just a Texan, and I'm utterly embarrassed for them.
I mean, this is implying the point is to get a new coach better than the old one. And while that would be wise, it’s not the way booster run schools work.
He was given the money because they were tired of his stupid face.
Now, it would’ve made sense if they’d made better use of the past couple weeks, though they’re in a tight spot with no shiny up and coming candidates.
(Looking back at the Herman firing, that was odd because the department basically just waffled about firing him and did a quasi-public courtship with him still in the job. Which was norm breaking in an interesting way)
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He was given the money because they were tired of his stupid face.
hah, this is what happened to Bo Pelini
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He was given the money because they were tired of his stupid face.
Ha! Ain't that the truth.
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can't cancel football
football TV $$$ pays for the rest of the athletic department
I suppose you could cancel the entire athletic department
Again, that's why it's a no win situation.
Can't win. Can't quit.
So might as well just show up and pantomime that you give a damn.
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Ed Zachery
and get bargain basement coaches from the MAC or Div 2 and just win enough to put enough butts in the stands to pay the small salary
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There is no point. It's a no-win situation. You might as well just cancel football as a sport for these teams, but there's too much ego in both the athletic departments and the fan base to do that. And if you're going to have a football program, you have to at least do enough to make the fans and media think you actually care what their results are. Even if their ceiling is meaningless bowl game while being cannon fodder on TV for the 15 or so programs that are relevant a few weeks a year.
It’s always interesting to me to realize some people can’t find joy in sports unless a team is competing for the absolute biggest prize.
Not because I don’t understand it, but because it feels like a toxic and unpleasant way to experience something that can be fun. And if a person can turn off their care altogether, it seemed not too difficult to turn off caring about which bowl a team goes to or where it stands in the CFP.
It’s like saying because you can’t get fillet mignon, not eating is easier (and for some, that might be true). Meanwhile I’m just enjoying my burger over here.
(I think my baseball and CFB experience probably informed my thoughts here. I realized wishing my teams into contending was just making me mad. And my baseball team won some titles with mid teams, which made me realize this all was kind of random. So why not appreciate things for what they are rather than what they’re not)
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This recent exchange is perhaps why I'm so fastidious (and opposed to) about the use of the term 'we' by fans. You're not on the team, and perhaps you shouldn't be committing your own resources to the operation. I'm decades checked out on that kind of commitment.
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It’s always interesting to me to realize some people can’t find joy in sports unless a team is competing for the absolute biggest prize.
Not because I don’t understand it, but because it feels like a toxic and unpleasant way to experience something that can be fun. And if a person can turn off their care altogether, it seemed not too difficult to turn off caring about which bowl a team goes to or where it stands in the CFP.
It’s like saying because you can’t get fillet mignon, not eating is easier (and for some, that might be true). Meanwhile I’m just enjoying my burger over here.
I've said it before, but I never thought about Purdue competing for the absolute biggest prize (at least in football). We were always a "hamburger" school, not a filet mignon school. It never bothered me.
I found joy in the uniqueness that is college football. The history, the traditions. The fact that until the BCS, the MNC was just a popularity contest after all the bowls were over, but every team in the country was angling for the best bowl situation each year. For Purdue, maybe going to the Rose was almost a once-per-generation event, but getting a top-tier or even NYD bowl was a reward for a good season. Even a hamburger bowl meant you were playing in December and your team got extra practices to prep for the next season. Sometimes that hamburger was pretty tasty.
But the 12-team playoff will suck the oxygen out of the room entirely. The hamburger bowls still exist, but they've been left out on the counter half-eaten for a day and a half and are moldy because they weren't cared for. History and tradition? USC and UCLA and Oregon and Washington are in the goddamn Big Ten! The 18-team Big Ten. NIL, the transfer portal, the CCG, and going to divisionless CCG entry criteria, all make the rich richer. And that leaves the moldy half-eaten hamburger for the rest of us and you expect we, as fans, are going to be happy and find joy in it?
The chase that EVERYTHING has to be about the championship has sucked the joy out of a sport that the fans of irrelevant programs loved specifically because it wasn't always about the national championship race. Now it's CFP or f**k off.
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I've said it before, but I never thought about Purdue competing for the absolute biggest prize (at least in football). We were always a "hamburger" school, not a filet mignon school. It never bothered me.
I found joy in the uniqueness that is college football. The history, the traditions. The fact that until the BCS, the MNC was just a popularity contest after all the bowls were over, but every team in the country was angling for the best bowl situation each year. For Purdue, maybe going to the Rose was almost a once-per-generation event, but getting a top-tier or even NYD bowl was a reward for a good season. Even a hamburger bowl meant you were playing in December and your team got extra practices to prep for the next season. Sometimes that hamburger was pretty tasty.
But the 12-team playoff will suck the oxygen out of the room entirely. The hamburger bowls still exist, but they've been left out on the counter half-eaten for a day and a half and are moldy because they weren't cared for. History and tradition? USC and UCLA and Oregon and Washington are in the goddamn Big Ten! The 18-team Big Ten. NIL, the transfer portal, the CCG, and going to divisionless CCG entry criteria, all make the rich richer. And that leaves the moldy half-eaten hamburger for the rest of us and you expect we, as fans, are going to be happy and find joy in it?
The chase that EVERYTHING has to be about the championship has sucked the joy out of a sport that the fans of irrelevant programs loved specifically because it wasn't always about the national championship race. Now it's CFP or f**k off.
+1
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yup, I don't need to have mid-90s Nebraska to be content and interested and vested in the program.
but, I need to be relevant.
Challenging for a conference title or a division title with a shot.
8-9-10 wins and ranked and at least mentioned in the discussion
with mega conferences w/o divisions and the playoff if you're not in the top 10 with less than 2 losses you're not in the discussion
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This recent exchange is perhaps why I'm so fastidious (and opposed to) about the use of the term 'we' by fans. You're not on the team, and perhaps you shouldn't be committing your own resources to the operation. I'm decades checked out on that kind of commitment.
We agree.
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Ole Miss fans explained to me they enjoyed the game, and mostly the tail gate before and after. If they won, great, fine, whatever.
An Alabama fan was there nodding and said "Yeah, at Bama, we criticize the team after a 63-7 blowout and everyone is miserable, and drunk."
I get a sense UGA fans are becoming that way too, if they weren't already.
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Days days are numbered. Several media outlets are rumored to be looking into who hired the PI firm. I figure O$U will keep Day until after whatever “butt suck bowl game*” they’re gifted and then fire him if he doesn’t bail first.
*a phrase I read and borrowed from an anonymous buckeye fan during a schadenfreude scan of buckeye message boards.
That just can't be right. tOSU would be insane to fire Day.
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That just can't be right. tOSU would be insane to fire Day.
Well, now that Jimbo is available...
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Ole Miss fans explained to me they enjoyed the game, and mostly the tail gate before and after. If they won, great, fine, whatever.
An Alabama fan was there nodding and said "Yeah, at Bama, we criticize the team after a 63-7 blowout and everyone is miserable, and drunk."
I get a sense UGA fans are becoming that way too, if they weren't already.
The tailgating scene at LSU was always a major part of the fandom. I don't think that tradition would/could continue if LSU slips into the tier of people who know they're not competing for NCs. In which case, I'm with Brad and ELA.....screw the what the sport has turned into for that. There's been times LSU was bad. There was always the sense that conditions were favorable to be relevant again....have to find the right coach, have to keep the in-state kids in state, etc. Sometimes they did that, sometimes they didn't. There was always hope.
Now we have NIL and the state's wretched economy finally matters to the football program. The average LSU NIL deal is less than half of the average deals at Texas and Georgia, for example. No signs of that changing. Last recruiting cycle, LSU lost out on all their targets they most coveted from the portal, to Texas and FSU, because they were outbid in NIL $. Defensive recruiting is again going poorly, forcing more portal activity, and it's going to be the same story. Why go to Baton Rouge when you can make a lot more money in Austin playing for a team that actually knows how to coach defense?
Add that in with quite a list of odd, questionable, frustrating coaching decisions, and I've done a 180 on my outlook on where the program is headed. If you'd have asked me last year after the regular season, I would've said I was optimistic. A win over Alabama with what I thought was likely to be Kelly's worst team, and outside of an avalanche in the first few minutes in the SEC CG, they went on to play UGA the rest of the game reasonably well, even without the benefit of constant rotation that UGA was able to do. In hindsight, the Alabama win looks like a fluke, a game we stole from a superior team by pulling off a 2 pt. conversion in OT, this team wouldn't play UGA any better despite UGA not being as good and LSU having more players available, and the signs aren't there anymore that the team is making overall progress. In fact, given that the only successful part of the team this year depended on a generational freak at QB, even that part doesn't look repeatable or sustainable. Everything else regressed, the players, the play on the field, and the coaching.
I'm not complaining about a 9-3 season. Having lived through the 90's, this was a great season. I'm forecasting for the future, though, and I think we're probably entering Brad and ELA's description of the teams that max at 9-3 and the decades-long expectation that LSU can be more may have to be adjusted. Time will tell. Alabama built the Death Star, and now Georgia has followed suit. Outside of the conference, Ohio State, Texas, Michigan (for now at least) has done the same thing. LSU is not on par with any of those schools and I don't currently see signs that the team is headed in that direction, or able to. It's going to prove to be a different world when you can't match NIL $ with the big dogs, even if the coaching were there.
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I read that the founder of Cane's Chicken is the richest person in Louisana, about $8 billion or so. I thought he was a BR/LSU guy? I think he could swing some NIL your way?
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Could he? Probably. Is he? Apparently not.
I believe he is from Baton Rouge or somewhere close around there. I don't know if he went to school there or has any inclination to help the football program.
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He's a Georgia alum from New Orleans, who now lives in Baton Rouge
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Reading the Holgersen story in the Athletic today is hilarious.
No f ing way they can Dana, not with that buyout....
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Could he? Probably. Is he? Apparently not.
I believe he is from Baton Rouge or somewhere close around there. I don't know if he went to school there or has any inclination to help the football program.
LOL. Grew up in BR, but graduated from UGA. First resturant right next to LSU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Graves_(entrepreneur)
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Reading the Holgersen story in the Athletic today is hilarious.
No f ing way they can Dana, not with that buyout....
CnP it here if you can. I'm not paying a subscrition just to read one article.
I heard they had a good one about Jimbo's demise.
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That just can't be right. tOSU would be insane to fire Day.
I don’t see it. AD is retiring soon. Day’s win % is outrageous. I could see him maybe looking to the NFL or another big time college gig with lower expectations (not one like that currently open). The AD search will be interesting. Definitely one of the top 5 AD jobs in the country.
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There you go. If he is throwing around NIL money it's probably going to UGA who, again, is doubling our average NIL deal.
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The tailgating scene at LSU was always a major part of the fandom. I don't think that tradition would/could continue if LSU slips into the tier of people who know they're not competing for NCs. In which case, I'm with Brad and ELA.....screw the what the sport has turned into for that. There's been times LSU was bad. There was always the sense that conditions were favorable to be relevant again....have to find the right coach, have to keep the in-state kids in state, etc. Sometimes they did that, sometimes they didn't. There was always hope.
Now we have NIL and the state's wretched economy finally matters to the football program. The average LSU NIL deal is less than half of the average deals at Texas and Georgia, for example. No signs of that changing. Last recruiting cycle, LSU lost out on all their targets they most coveted from the portal, to Texas and FSU, because they were outbid in NIL $. Defensive recruiting is again going poorly, forcing more portal activity, and it's going to be the same story. Why go to Baton Rouge when you can make a lot more money in Austin playing for a team that actually knows how to coach defense?
And this is the problem. CFB always had a parity problem. But it seemed that so many of the efforts were to try to bring more parity. Whittling down the scholarship limits, no pay-for-play, making players sit out a year for a transfer, etc... And it seemed the result of that was players who were playing for the school they chose, not just for the school that gave them the biggest offer.
The NFL pays players. But they have parity through the draft, through the CBA, and through the salary cap. Seems like CFB isn't turning into NFL Lite, it's turning into a free for all where whoever has the most money just buys their team, and with the transfer portal it's unrestricted free agency, all the time.
In the new world, parity is gone, if even LSU fans are bemoaning the fact that they're on the outside looking in.
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(https://i.imgur.com/9VCumPx.png)
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Who is going to get Jim Leonhard? He has to be a front runner for HC opening or big D Coordinator openings?
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In the new world, parity is gone, if even LSU fans are bemoaning the fact that they're on the outside looking in.
To be fair, most LSU fans would not agree with me on this at this time. It is my opinion, nothing more, that Joe Fan is still stuck in the Old World way of thinking and not looking at What Is and What Is To Be.
I will say the majority of the LSU media personalities have been sounding this same alarm for the past year. It was a wake-up call to watch a team that generated buzz by winning the West with a decimated roster in Kelly's first year whiff so badly on portal recruits. They are documenting the NIL circumstances and who we've targeted and lost to other programs for that reason, and the emerging trend is not good. We also aren't recruiting the high school ranks very well on defense either. I assume for the same reason.
It's possible Kelly is still a good coach and can eventually get a coaching roster together worth a damn. The NIL thing is an entirely different problem, and one I'm not sure the school or fanbase has adequately realized and processed.
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Who is going to get Jim Leonhard? He has to be a front runner for HC opening or big D Coordinator openings?
Packers.
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Who is going to get Jim Leonhard? He has to be a front runner for HC opening or big D Coordinator openings?
I'm surprised MSU didn't appear to even kick the tires there. Confirmed the OL and TE coaches are coming from Corvallis, would love to add Jim as a DC
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To be fair, most LSU fans would not agree with me on this at this time. It is my opinion, nothing more, that Joe Fan is still stuck in the Old World way of thinking and not looking at What Is and What Is To Be.
I will say the majority of the LSU media personalities have been sounding this same alarm for the past year. It was a wake-up call to watch a team that generated buzz by winning the West with a decimated roster in Kelly's first year whiff so badly on portal recruits. They are documenting the NIL circumstances and who we've targeted and lost to other programs for that reason, and the emerging trend is not good. We also aren't recruiting the high school ranks very well on defense either. I assume for the same reason.
It's possible Kelly is still a good coach and can eventually get a coaching roster together worth a damn. The NIL thing is an entirely different problem, and one I'm not sure the school or fanbase has adequately realized and processed.
I can confirm that UT spend on NIL is up this cycle, especially on defense. I know Texas has beaten out LSU on a couple of highly prized recruits, including one who is considered among the best in the state of Lousiana.
Money is definitely starting to talk.
And I know ultimately this benefits Texas and a small handful of other schools but I agree it's not good for the sport overall. I just don't think there's any way to stop it, or even modify it in any way that would be meaningful to old school fans of the game like most of us.
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And I know ultimately this benefits Texas and a small handful of other schools but I agree it's not good for the sport overall. I just don't think there's any way to stop it, or even modify it in any way that would be meaningful to old school fans of the game like most of us.
Put the one year sit out rule back in. No waivers
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Put the one year sit out rule back in. No waivers
That would be an improvement, especially for fans. Might lesson the need for coaches to constantly re-recruit their own roster too.
That said, I think we have two problems. The NIL problem and the transfer portal problem. I don't know of a good way to weight them in order of parity-crushing significance. If it's 90% NIL / 10% portal, that change, while good, does little. If it's closer to 50/50 then it's a much more significant improvement.
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I'm surprised MSU didn't appear to even kick the tires there. Confirmed the OL and TE coaches are coming from Corvallis, would love to add Jim as a DC
USC is all over him right now, for the DC role, he's a Wisconsin guy to the bone and the Packers need a DC.
It's a no-brainer. He won't even have to move.
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That would be an improvement, especially for fans. Might lesson the need for coaches to constantly re-recruit their own roster too.
That said, I think we have two problems. The NIL problem and the transfer portal problem. I don't know of a good way to weight them in order of parity-crushing significance. If it's 90% NIL / 10% portal, that change, while good, does little. If it's closer to 50/50 then it's a much more significant improvement.
To be honest, if you want to spend that kind of money on 17 year olds, good on you. Purdue and MSU might pull in 1 or 2 4* guys per year, so I think that's just the big schools fighting each other to pay the guys that they were largely going to land anyway.
The problem IMO is that those schools used to occasionally have a gap. They had a QB declare early, and maybe missed for a cycle. So suddenly, you just have an unproven true sophomore QB. Those helmet schools always had more talent, but the "parity" came from where they might have one big hole, and a mid level P5 team had a really good cycle, with a bunch of underrated 3* kids all as juniors or seniors.
Now, the helmet school just plugs that hole, likely with an underrated 3* kid who was at a Purdue or an MSU. So not only will those schools never have those holes, its unlikely a Purdue or an MSU can retain all the kids they coach up. If you want to pay for a transfer, go for it, but he has to sit out a year. He can still go to your school, nobody is stopping him. he just can't play. Just like a kid who has used all of his eligibility
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To be honest, if you want to spend that kind of money on 17 year olds, good on you. Purdue and MSU might pull in 1 or 2 4* guys per year, so I think that's just the big schools fighting each other to pay the guys that they were largely going to land anyway.
The problem IMO is that those schools used to occasionally have a gap. They had a QB declare early, and maybe missed for a cycle. So suddenly, you just have an unproven true sophomore QB. Those helmet schools always had more talent, but the "parity" came from where they might have one big hole, and a mid level P5 team had a really good cycle, with a bunch of underrated 3* kids all as juniors or seniors.
Now, the helmet school just plugs that hole, likely with an underrated 3* kid who was at a Purdue or an MSU. So not only will those schools never have those holes, its unlikely a Purdue or an MSU can retain all the kids they coach up. If you want to pay for a transfer, go for it, but he has to sit out a year. He can still go to your school, nobody is stopping him. he just can't play. Just like a kid who has used all of his eligibility
This is the worst part so far, imo. One of the great things about cfb has been the overlooked recruit who broke out and elevated a team nobody was expecting to have a good season, or maybe it was a kid who was highly regarded but grew up a fan of a school or wanted to stay home and play for the home team.
What we have now is the cfb version of upward wealth transfer where the resources of the many, the normal, the everyday teams, are being siphoned off and given to the already-elite.
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You really want parity? Let players have 5 years of eligibility. 3 years at one school, they get a 5 th year. They can transfer only once, after freshman year. No more red shirt seasons. Lots of smaller schools would benefit by players who would never make it in the nfl. Stars leave early anyway for the draft.
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I've said it before, but I never thought about Purdue competing for the absolute biggest prize (at least in football). We were always a "hamburger" school, not a filet mignon school. It never bothered me.
I found joy in the uniqueness that is college football. The history, the traditions. The fact that until the BCS, the MNC was just a popularity contest after all the bowls were over, but every team in the country was angling for the best bowl situation each year. For Purdue, maybe going to the Rose was almost a once-per-generation event, but getting a top-tier or even NYD bowl was a reward for a good season. Even a hamburger bowl meant you were playing in December and your team got extra practices to prep for the next season. Sometimes that hamburger was pretty tasty.
But the 12-team playoff will suck the oxygen out of the room entirely. The hamburger bowls still exist, but they've been left out on the counter half-eaten for a day and a half and are moldy because they weren't cared for. History and tradition? USC and UCLA and Oregon and Washington are in the goddamn Big Ten! The 18-team Big Ten. NIL, the transfer portal, the CCG, and going to divisionless CCG entry criteria, all make the rich richer. And that leaves the moldy half-eaten hamburger for the rest of us and you expect we, as fans, are going to be happy and find joy in it?
The chase that EVERYTHING has to be about the championship has sucked the joy out of a sport that the fans of irrelevant programs loved specifically because it wasn't always about the national championship race. Now it's CFP or f**k off.
I'll never ever understand fans liking NFL over college football.
The sheer volume of/and diversity of college makes it so amazing.
And Florida has basically stunk for 10 years now, but I watch every game intensely.
The lack of an actual leader has allowed college football to run off the rails. And the "progress" of officially allowing a seat at the table for the little guy has been done in a way to guarantee that little guy CANNOT win. The great big, fat lie about 60 or 80 or 133 teams being in the same classification and thus, technically, all able to win the NC has been replaced with a placation and an immovable object: the 12 team playoff = 4 straight games against legit programs.
College football also has/had the 4-year cycle, where you are a fan of the program and individuals come and go. What do we have now? 50% or more of a team transferring in and out and that natural 4-year turnover turning into a bastardized annual turnover.
When you let the mechanism evolve on its own, you get a wild jungle. We could have molded it, planned it out, and mapped it for the benefit of the SPORT and not the individual program or upper rung of programs.
They've let $$$$ > health of the sport, and that's not a great plan.
Take Purdue. Mediocre program, sure, but that huge upset of OSU! Drew Brees! A Rose Bowl! Mike Alstott! Tons of great WRs! Tons of great DEs! The hard-hat mascot! The big drum!
I have no tie to Purdue or anything, but I love that it exists. Purdue matters. Even if it doesn't "matter," it still matters!
It may not, in the near future. This unplanned, untethered evolution of the game is garbage.
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In my experience in life, leadership by committee generates poor solutions to problems, and often creates more problems than solutions.
Of course, a dictatorship in the hands of one person can do the same, and will, over time. You might have a good one for a period followed by an idiot.
Humans try and create hybrid systems that also don't work very well. It's inherent.
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The best thing to do is to just go ahead and split Div I football out now. The programs that want to be super programs, or NFL lite, can split into their own 30-50 team league. Not really sure if there is enough to even fill that out, maybe only top 20. Pay the players outright, have their own TV contract. The whole 9. A totally separate entity from today's NCAA structure. This would be the Ohio State's, Alabama's, and OU's.
The rest can go back into a traditional NCAA football structure, organized into conferences, limit the transfer opportunities, and limit coaches pay along with assistants and AD's. They should limit TV as well. Maybe only pick the best handful of games every week and only broadcast those. The in-person experience should be the top priority. Because as nice as watching it on TV is, it's essentially the killer of all things CFB that we love.
Limit the TV, limit the TV time-outs. And, share the revenue equally apart from stadium tickets.
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I think in the end, you'll have probably only have the Kings and Barons left standing.
From Georgia, finally elevated, to 5 teams now peasants: Stew Mandel’s Kings & Barons - The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/3361576/2022/06/14/alabama-georgia-emperors-kings-barons/?source=emp_shared_article)
The Athletic is top of the class of college football coverage. It's well worth the $75/year.
(https://i.imgur.com/T0won7c.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QMqcLvx.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YG51PBR.png)
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Your list sounds about right to me. Throw in a few more teams to get to 30ish, make it a league like the NFL, and get it over with. Because that's where we're heading, except with 100ish teams, of which 70-75 have nothing much to play for.
I wouldn't mind it if A&M stayed in the traditional NCAA league.
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I wouldn't mind if Wisconsin pulled a UChicago, but that's not happening. Money and stuff.
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Mike Elko contract, salary: Deal for new Texas A&M coach heavy on incentives for postseason success - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/mike-elko-contract-salary-deal-for-new-texas-a-m-coach-heavy-on-incentives-for-postseason-success/)
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The problem IMO is that those schools used to occasionally have a gap. They had a QB declare early, and maybe missed for a cycle. So suddenly, you just have an unproven true sophomore QB. Those helmet schools always had more talent, but the "parity" came from where they might have one big hole, and a mid level P5 team had a really good cycle, with a bunch of underrated 3* kids all as juniors or seniors.
Now, the helmet school just plugs that hole, likely with an underrated 3* kid who was at a Purdue or an MSU. So not only will those schools never have those holes, its unlikely a Purdue or an MSU can retain all the kids they coach up.
This is really spot on and the part I truly dislike the most. Rooting for a helmet school, sure it does help the helmet schools, but I also have always loved to root for an underdog which was the result of the parity you described. The writing has been on the wall for a long time, but now living through it in real time stinks.
I compare it to MLB of my youth to today. I come from great parents that were very lower middle class. They spent all the money on education for us we had two vacations outside the state of Ohio in 18 years. Where they spent their little extra money was taking us downtown to a baseball game as a family, sitting in not so great seats, but we where there and it was affordable and for people that loved baseball, there was nothing better. Nowadays, baseball is all about money and it's target audience on-site isn't about people that love their game, it's about people that will spend $ because it's the place to be. It's why Cleveland is spending $450 million to redo their stadium, removing seats so they can put in "hangout places."
College football is on the same path. It's no longer about the love of the game, the tradition and the sport, it's about the $, the people that can provide it, the people that can spend it on-site and the young kids that can earn it.
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1) I agree 100% with what AAA said above
2) Rumors that Petrino might be interviewing for the OC position back at Arkansas.
Can that be real? He was fired for cause at Arkansas just a few years back. Seems like the vetting process should be a 5-second conversation with HR where they say, "You want to do WHAT? Uh, no."
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From what I can tell, Braves fans pretty much like their team and the game. Of course they've been winning, and that works around here.
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1) I agree 100% with what AAA said above
2) Rumors that Petrino might be interviewing for the OC position back at Arkansas.
Can that be real? He was fired for cause at Arkansas just a few years back. Seems like the vetting process should be a 5-second conversation with HR where they say, "You want to do WHAT? Uh, no."
Weird to me as well. But Arkansas has basically sucked really bad since he left, and Petrino has had some success elsewhere. Can't you just see him coming in, then them firing Bert, or whoever their coach is now, and then Petrino taking over again?
I guess maybe he served his sentence? Very strange. Even stranger he would consider going back.
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Bert is at Illinois. Pittman is the coach at Arky.
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I thought Pittman was a pretty solid coach and could get them to 7-5ish or so. You get three wins OOC usually almost guaranteed unless you're Auburn.
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how much does a steward get paid???
Six years, $42 million total value
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I guess maybe he served his sentence? Very strange. Even stranger he would consider going back.
do they still have a women's volleyball program??? ;)
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Bert is at Illinois. Pittman is the coach at Arky.
Couldn't remember his name. He looks like a Bert. You know he's on the chopping block next year anyways.
(https://i.imgur.com/nfVBXJ0.png)
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I think in the end, you'll have probably only have the Kings and Barons left standing.
From Georgia, finally elevated, to 5 teams now peasants: Stew Mandel’s Kings & Barons - The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/3361576/2022/06/14/alabama-georgia-emperors-kings-barons/?source=emp_shared_article)
The Athletic is top of the class of college football coverage. It's well worth the $75/year.
(https://i.imgur.com/T0won7c.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QMqcLvx.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YG51PBR.png)
I'm not sure how a few programs snuck into that Barons list.
Iowa and A&M haven't done much of anything in the past 30 years. I know, I know, arbitrary cut-off, but okay, name your cut-off. 20 years? 50?
What has Iowa done in any span? A&M?
They've ALMOST done stuff, but that's about it. They don't belong with the others, at all.
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I'm not sure how a few programs snuck into that Barons list.
Iowa and A&M haven't done much of anything in the past 30 years. I know, I know, arbitrary cut-off, but okay, name your cut-off. 20 years? 50?
What has Iowa done in any span? A&M?
They've ALMOST done stuff, but that's about it. They don't belong with the others, at all.
Doesn't actually matter. Once you get on "the list", you get the benefits of being on the list.
I.e. Purdue. Is there really any reason, other than being part of the B1G, that they should recruit better than the MAC? Probably not. But they're in the B1G, so they recruit better than the MAC.
Once you figure out the cutoff, then if it's Iowa or A&M, players will want to go there based purely on the fact that they're on the right side of the cutoff.
Is it arbitrary at the cutoff point? Yes. But it's always arbitrary at the cutoff point
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You can defend the others being on that tier, based on conference and/or national championships.
There's no reason for those 2 to be on the list in the first place.
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agreed
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You can defend the others being on that tier, based on conference and/or national championships.
There's no reason for those 2 to be on the list in the first place.
We’re still in the top 20 of all time wins. Shit, what was lsu prior to 2003, or Florida prior to 1990?
And if not A&M or Iowa, who else you got? Because the programs that are just a few places down literally fall off a cliff.
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San Diego State, which interviewed Nebraska’s Tony White in its search for a head coach, reportedly is hiring Colorado offensive coordinator Sean Lewis for the job
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We’re still in the top 20 of all time wins. Shit, what was lsu prior to 2003, or Florida prior to 1990?
And if not A&M or Iowa, who else you got? Because the programs that are just a few places down literally fall off a cliff.
From 1900 to 2002, LSU is 14th in win%. A&M is 21st, behind Syracuse and in front of GT.
(removing all the Ivy League teams and shit)
.
1900-1989, it goes like this:
27 - Arizona
28 - A&M
29 - Clemson
30 - Florida
So if you remove Florida's best 2 decades, yes, A&M is slightly ahead.
3 NCs in that span. 3 Heisman winners. Kind of changes things.
Oh, and LSU is still 14th.
.
1900-2021
A&M improves, up to 17th.
But LSU and Florida improve, too, at 12th and 13th.
.
And if anyone wants to know why the kings are the kings, in all 3 of those time spans above, the top 10 are the same 10 programs, in some order.
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All the while, Iowa is back in the 30s and 40s.
No dice.
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From 1900 to 2002, LSU is 14th in win%. A&M is 21st, behind Syracuse and in front of GT.
(removing all the Ivy League teams and shit)
.
1900-1989, it goes like this:
27 - Arizona
28 - A&M
29 - Clemson
30 - Florida
So if you remove Florida's best 2 decades, yes, A&M is slightly ahead.
3 NCs in that span. 3 Heisman winners. Kind of changes things.
Oh, and LSU is still 14th.
.
1900-2021
A&M improves, up to 17th.
But LSU and Florida improve, too, at 12th and 13th.
.
And if anyone wants to know why the kings are the kings, in all 3 of those time spans above, the top 10 are the same 10 programs, in some order.
I’m even more impressed, because up until the 70’s A&M was an all male military college with no more than 6,000 students. Kinda like the Citadel. And we were super bad for most of the 60.s and 70’s.
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And I think fundamentally there’s not much separating Florida from A&M. Or Clemson. All large state schools, in the south, who are not “blue bloods” but have arguably had as much success as most blue bloods in the last 20 or so years. With big fan bases, large amounts of resources, and able to attract big time talent.
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It doesn't matter. There has to be a number of schools, and therefore there has to be a cut line where the schools you keep or lose are all marginal and you can argue all day who should or should not be on either side.
It's only interesting if your school is near the cut line, in which case you have a personal stake in it. But since this is a fictional exercise, is it REALLY worth arguing?
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It doesn't matter. There has to be a number of schools, and therefore there has to be a cut line where the schools you keep or lose are all marginal and you can argue all day who should or should not be on either side.
It's only interesting if your school is near the cut line, in which case you have a personal stake in it. But since this is a fictional exercise, is it REALLY worth arguing?
Not my list.
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And I think fundamentally there’s not much separating Florida from A&M. Or Clemson. All large state schools, in the south, who are not “blue bloods” but have arguably had as much success as most blue bloods in the last 20 or so years. With big fan bases, large amounts of resources, and able to attract big time talent.
This works for me, pretty much. All three seem to be able to reach the top, or near it, and also sneak in some bad years, especially Florida of late, which is a puzzlement to me. I figured Clemson is able to recruit at times from neighboring states in a way USCe has not been able to do for whatever reason. Florida should never be worse than 8-5. A&M has to compete with UT/UO and that's a challenge, but as noted, they have the resources, the stadium, the tradition, etc.
I could see Clemson drifting into a down period, they have in the past, 7-6 kinds of seasons at times, maybe no bowl games, but Florida and A&M really should never drop further than 5 losses IMHO.
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It doesn't matter. There has to be a number of schools, and therefore there has to be a cut line where the schools you keep or lose are all marginal and you can argue all day who should or should not be on either side.
It's only interesting if your school is near the cut line, in which case you have a personal stake in it. But since this is a fictional exercise, is it REALLY worth arguing?
of course
in the off season, ABSOLUTELY!
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I'm not sure how a few programs snuck into that Barons list.
Iowa and A&M haven't done much of anything in the past 30 years. I know, I know, arbitrary cut-off, but okay, name your cut-off. 20 years? 50?
What has Iowa done in any span? A&M?
They've ALMOST done stuff, but that's about it. They don't belong with the others, at all.
Iowa has won the conference championship in the past 20 years, played in CCG's, and they sell out their large stadium. They are a baron.
Nebraska is living on past glory here - in grave danger of losing any status, unless Rhule can get it fixed. They sell out but have not won anything in a long time.
Who knows what happens to Iowa when Kirk hangs it up. It's a great job for the right person. Dan Mullen would be good there, IMO.
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I'd include programs that "haven't done much" in the second tier if they have tremendous fan enthusiasm.
I suppose one might argue that would include South Carolina and their ilk, so I'd temper that a bit with on field success to some level.
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Iowa has won the conference championship in the past 20 years
meaning 2004 when they "shared" with Michigan but lost the head to head?
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Iowa has won the conference championship in the past 20 years
meaning 2004 when they "shared" with Michigan but lost the head to head?
We shared the Big 12 South in 2010 with Oklahoma, beat them head to head, but they went to the CCG because of BCS rankings.
It happens. If they won it, they won it.
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I know.
UNL claims conference championships shared back in the Big 6 and Big 8 daze
I don't count any of them from the 60's, 70's, and 80's that UNL shared with the cheatin Sooners that the Sooners won the head to head
it ain't right
it's called a tie-breaker and the head to head winner went to the Orange Bowl every time
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It doesn't matter. There has to be a number of schools,
There does?
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And I think fundamentally there’s not much separating Florida from A&M. Or Clemson. All large state schools, in the south, who are not “blue bloods” but have arguably had as much success as most blue bloods in the last 20 or so years. With big fan bases, large amounts of resources, and able to attract big time talent.
I guess national championships aren't a big deal, especially 3 in 12 years.
Programs with 3 NCs in 12 years is a SHORT list:
recent Bama
90s Nebraska
80s Miami
Switzer OU
50s OU
WWII ND
30s Minny
and
turn-of-the-century Florida
.
That's it.
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Today what separates Clemson/A&M/UF?
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(https://i.imgur.com/vCkdozy.png)
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I guess national championships aren't a big deal, especially 3 in 12 years.
Programs with 3 NCs in 12 years is a SHORT list:
recent Bama
90s Nebraska
80s Miami
Switzer OU
50s OU
WWII ND
30s Minny
and
turn-of-the-century Florida
.
That's it.
No, I meant that fundamentally there is not much difference in the school/program between Florida, Clemson, and A&M.
Take a 2nd/3rd tier school for example. Let's pick Texas Tech, Kansas State, Mississippi State, Iowa State.
Does their stadium hold 100,000+ fans, packed every weekend?
Does their program have the $$$ available to hire the best coaches, and retain them?
Are they able to recruit on an elite level, and more importantly, can they offer good NIL benefits?
Is the campus conveniently located in fertile recruiting grounds, and close to large population cities?
FYI I consider Florida to be a 21BB, or 21st century Blue Blood. But I also note that before about 1990, Florida had little to no success at all. They never won the SEC (or maybe almost never), they were stuck in the middle. So in about 30 years Florida has worked it's way, way up the CFB list.
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There does?
Well, we're talking about a breakaway league leaving NCAA control and doing their own thing. So there will be a finite number of teams invited/accepted into this new league.
What that number is? I don't know... But it will likely mean that the teams closest to the "cut line" may have spotty arguments for inclusion/exclusion.
Kinda like teams 4/5 in the CFP most years, or like the teams "on the bubble" for the NCAA Tournament most years.
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Well, we're talking about a breakaway league leaving NCAA control and doing their own thing. So there will be a finite number of teams invited/accepted into this new league.
What that number is? I don't know... But it will likely mean that the teams closest to the "cut line" may have spotty arguments for inclusion/exclusion.
Kinda like teams 4/5 in the CFP most years, or like the teams "on the bubble" for the NCAA Tournament most years.
It’s interesting because it’s going to create more misery, which in turn creates more spending.
People always get hot and bothered about the body bag games. But if it’s just the top 30, some team that doesn’t think it should be finishing 25th will be finishing 25th
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It’s interesting because it’s going to create more misery, which in turn creates more spending.
People always get hot and bothered about the body bag games. But if it’s just the top 30, some team that doesn’t think it should be finishing 25th will be finishing 25th
Yup. Some teams that currently think 9-3 is a bad season, are gonna be real surprised when they go 4-8.
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I think it easier to just amend NCAA rules as needed by member institutions.
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Curt Cignetti, currently the HC of James Madison, will be the new football coach at IU.
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That's a nice hire.
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Curt Cignetti, currently the HC of James Madison, will be the new football coach at IU.
just glad it's not Mike Hart.
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just glad it's not Mike Hart.
Mike knows he's the next OC when Booger leaves and Moore gets the HC job.
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Mike knows he's the next OC when Booger leaves and Moore gets the HC job.
would be a pretty seamless transition imo if Jeem does bolt and they promote Moore to HC and Hart to OC.
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It's pretty damn clear Moore can coach and manage a game now. If JH doesn't leave, Moore will get a lot of looks from the outside.
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Yup. Some teams that currently think 9-3 is a bad season, are gonna be real surprised when they go 4-8.
Hello, 9-3 here.....you rang?
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It’s interesting because it’s going to create more misery, which in turn creates more spending.
People always get hot and bothered about the body bag games. But if it’s just the top 30, some team that doesn’t think it should be finishing 25th will be finishing 25th
the top 30 or 40 will play teams outside the "league", just like non-con games and games vs teams outside the FBS today
they will be going 9-3 and consider it a poor season
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Pretty good coaching news for the B1g. Cignetti to IU, Jon Smith to MSU, and Penn State hires Kansas OC Andy Kotelnicki. He's been with Lance Leipold forever.
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How many OC's has Franklin burned through?
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How many OC's has Franklin burned through?
for real. I don't know why anyone would want to go work for that flaccid bald penis looking loser.
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How many OC's has Franklin burned through?
He has had five through 13 seasons. I think the first had five or six years at two schools. Only three have been fired. The other two went on and got head-coaching jobs.
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Defensive coordinator Tony White gets a pay boost to $1.6 million* in a restructured deal announced Friday.
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How many OC's has Franklin burned through?
Halfway through the season BBTS was talking about how great Yurcich was, and hopefully he wouldn't get poached to be a HC. Instead, he didn't survive the season.
I LOVED the Kirk Ciarocca offense, at Minnesota. PSU poached him, and I think he lasted one year there.
But to answer your question
- John Donovan (2014-15)
- Joe Moorhead (2016-17)
- Ricky Rahne (2018-19)
- Tyler Bowen (2019)
- Kirk Ciarrocca (2020)
- Mike Yurcich (2021-23)
- Ja'Juan Seider/Ty Howie (2023)
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Halfway through the season BBTS was talking about how great Yurcich was, and hopefully he wouldn't get poached to be a HC. Instead, he didn't survive the season.
I LOVED the Kirk Ciarocca offense, at Minnesota. PSU poached him, and I think he lasted one year there.
But to answer your question
- John Donovan (2014-15)
- Joe Moorhead (2016-17)
- Ricky Rahne (2018-19)
- Tyler Bowen (2019)
- Kirk Ciarrocca (2020)
- Mike Yurcich (2021-23)
- Ja'Juan Seider/Ty Howie (2023)
I mean, Brown was a bowl game fill-in, and the guys in 7. were firing fill-ins, right?
Ciarrocca was a weird case. That offense was all power football and deep shots. His one PSU year was quite middling. Then his Minnesota offense last year was also not so notable. His Rutgers offense this year was also bad, but that's not so surprising.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/406408363_893927345429280_9063632774566532922_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=xVORi8kRdowAX8q3IVe&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBernZUlLWNRDNhFousisb0QVk1UN1Tj2xWBP_tc4__XQ&oe=656F5AF8)
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Meanwhile, every Big Ten West coach just has to promise a better offense than Iowa
https://twitter.com/JeffRabjohns/status/1730744811659882572?t=ywZ6YzOW7V4mlQ5tCXYvQg&s=19
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I like it.
But Indiana is still ridiculous.
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Mickey Joseph, a former Nebraska assistant coach and QB from 1988-1991, is reportedly set to accept the head coach position at Grambling State.
He’s been a head coach just once before at Langston University in Oklahoma. He finished 13-7 as Langston’s head coach and was 3-6 as Nebraska’s interim HC.
Joseph took a year off coaching this past season but has seen time all around the country across his tenure as a coach. He’s made stops at LSU, Tulane, Louisiana Tech. He was Grambling State’s WR coach in 2014 and 2015.
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https://twitter.com/DarkoStateNews/status/1738357733554860440?t=yvvFUwdnZRWto9hsL_GE9g&s=19
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https://twitter.com/DarkoStateNews/status/1738357733554860440?t=yvvFUwdnZRWto9hsL_GE9g&s=19
The best part about that in retrospect is what constituted "opening the vault." A lot of schools pay their coordinators more than that now.
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Meanwhile, every Big Ten West coach just has to promise a better offense than Iowa
https://twitter.com/JeffRabjohns/status/1730744811659882572?t=ywZ6YzOW7V4mlQ5tCXYvQg&s=19
Is this guy actually going to do the impossible and make Indiana football hatable?
https://twitter.com/mfarrellsports/status/1738384008742887739?t=_2-BZqaoKjEDavXQvA82ug&s=19
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Sounds like a real DB to me.
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That's usually what I expect from their basketball coaches...
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maybe he will be as successful as the Basketball coaches
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I was listening to someone talk about this, and I think it would impact coaching buyouts and such. CFB needs to do away with the early signing day.
That change really moved things up with coach firings. I don't know if that change reverses things, but it can't hurt.
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Coaches have been getting fired mid-season for years
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I was listening to someone talk about this, and I think it would impact coaching buyouts and such. CFB needs to do away with the early signing day.
That change really moved things up with coach firings. I don't know if that change reverses things, but it can't hurt.
The early signing day either needs to go away, or actually be early. Like before the season for kids who want to enjoy their senior year. Granted then, a kid is going to sign, blow up, and then try to get out of it for a better offer, and the school will be villainized if they don't let him. Which is how we are here
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Coaches have been getting fired mid-season for years
Feels more common now, since you have to get a coach in place two weeks before signing day.
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or more normal
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The early signing day either needs to go away, or actually be early. Like before the season for kids who want to enjoy their senior year. Granted then, a kid is going to sign, blow up, and then try to get out of it for a better offer, and the school will be villainized if they don't let him. Which is how we are here
And coaches will get buyers remorse and find a way to shift things around.
A few years back, I remember listening to a coach who sort of crystalized it for me. He explained a kid in his class was thinking about delaying until the second signing period. He told the kid's coach in no uncertain terms, they kid signs early or not at all (kid got the better of it). In the end, one group has control and the other has a sort of illusory control. A few kids are talented to lead staffs around by the nose, but most aren't. The villainized part, never really matters. Jim Harbaugh got that treatment. Now look who cares.
I know the coaches wanted that summer signing period. They should. It benefits them. When someone comes to fire them, they can say "wait, I have this talent locked in. It's tied to us." (but really tied to "me") And the genius of a coach is he can wriggle out of the ones he doesn't want, or massage them out of the program.
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More borderline fraud and embezzlement from Scottward at LSU.
LSU fired DC Matt House whose truly awful work on the defensive side of the LoS oversaw a Total D ranked 105th, Scoring D ranked 78th, Passing D ranked 115th, Rushing D ranked 85th, 3rd Down Conversion ranked 114th, and Red ZONE D ranked 109th.
At LSU mind you! Despite a salary of $1.9M!
I remember several seasons ago when I whined why Pelini was paid so much as an LSU assistant for equivalently embarrassing work, @MikeDeTiger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1588) explained Pelini's bloated salary as coming with the territory of LSU amounting to higher profile work.
Fair enough, but Scottward turns around and hires Missouri's DC Blake Baker for $2.5M!
"Baker has reportedly agreed to a three-year deal that will pay him $2.5 million annually. That contract will make him the highest-paid assistant coach in college football."
"According to a copy of the contract obtained by the The Advocate, LSU paid Baker’s $950,000 buyout at Missouri."
https://twitter.com/shreveporttimes/status/1743708017915257083
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it's only money
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More borderline fraud and embezzlement from Scottward at LSU.
IMO, we should've seen it coming when LSU decided to hire Patton Oswalt for an AD.
(https://i.imgur.com/qpWRMSR.jpg)