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Topic: Basketball Coaching Carousel

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ELA

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2023, 12:22:24 AM »
I think after the win tonight, Izzo probably deserves another year

ELA

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2023, 12:24:44 AM »
WVU is entering into a potentially uncomfortable situation with Bob Huggins.  If WVU misses the tournament this season (right now squarely on the bubble) then that will make 3 out of the last 5 seasons it has missed the NCAAs (I give him the 2020 season because we were comfortably in had the tournament been played).

Since 2019, WVU has finished dead last in the conference twice and is 33-53 in Big 12 games in that time span.  He’s a HOF, loves the state and university, and has had a lot of success during his time here.

The way his contract is currently structured is he is slated to coach through next season and then take on an emeritus type role with the school.  The deadline to extend his coaching career here is May 1 this year.  I’m of the opinion the contract should stand as currently constructed, give Huggs a nice send off, and prepare for a basketball program without him at the helm.  The fanbase is probably split on that though.  Many people think as long as Huggs wants to coach WVU should allow him to.

I love him for what he’s done here but this isn’t Coach K leaving Duke or Wooden leaving UCLA.  He’s been a really good coach here.  He hasn’t been a great coach.

It will be interesting to see how our brand new AD handles it.
I can't believe he wants to coach much longer. I wonder if he would be amenable to a victory lap season at his alma mater, with the agreement he will step down at the end.  I also think you could do a couple more years if you bring in a coach in waiting.  Not sure who that is. The best WVU alum in coaching is killing it with the Celtics right now. So you aren't getting him

MaximumSam

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2023, 07:37:09 AM »
The Big 12 is a meat grinder this year. WVU currently at 22nd on the FancyStats despite being 16-12. Also, is WVU basketball an attractive job? That travel schedule is a bitch. I guess they could start playing Cincinnati six times a year.

Kris60

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2023, 10:19:15 AM »
The Big 12 is a meat grinder this year. WVU currently at 22nd on the FancyStats despite being 16-12. Also, is WVU basketball an attractive job? That travel schedule is a bitch. I guess they could start playing Cincinnati six times a year.
Idk.  I would say it’s a middle of the road job.  Not a blue blood school, the terrible travel schedule, and WV isn’t a bucket list destination for most people (the rumor was Beilein’s wife couldn’t wait to get out of here).  OTOH,  Beilein and Huggs have shown you can win pretty consistently here.

WVU has made it to 12 of the 17 last NCAAs and parlayed those appearances into 5 Sweet 16s, an Elite 8, and a Final Four.   As far as on court success goes that is probably pretty similar to what Purdue has done during that same time span, but I wouldn’t say it’s as attractive as Purdue.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2023, 10:53:36 AM »
I think that Ohio State's Thursday game against Penn State is important simply because I think it is Ohio State's best remaining chance at a win. Ohio State has lost eight straight and 13 of 14 and is now 11-16. Their five remaining games, in order of likelihood of winning are:

  • Vs PSU 2/23 at 630
  • Vs UNL 3/8 at 6*
  • Vs UMD 3/1 at 7
  • Vs Il 2/26 at noon
  • At MSU 3/4 at TBD

*This is in the BTT and assumes that UNL and tOSU finish 12th and 13th respectively. 

In theory Ohio State could play a sixth (or more) game(s) by winning the UNL game but at this point that is doubtful. 

The Buckeyes have looked completely lost for a month. Holtmann has lost the team and has no idea how to fix this mess. My guess is that they'll lose out.

If they do lose out they'll finish 11-21, losers of 13 straight and 18 of their last 19.

Serious question:
Does anyone other than @MaximumSam think that Holtmann should be retained?

MaximumSam

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2023, 09:29:27 PM »
I don't think Gene Smith has any intention of firing Holtmann this season absent him mooning the crowd. But say it does happen, or more likely, he leaves for another job. My thoughts on possible candidates.

Sean Miller, Xavier: Clearly one of the strongest candidates - he was great in his first stint at Xavier and hardly a bust at Arizona. He's doing just fine in his second stint at Xavier. He had some pretty public NCAA issues that led to his ouster at Arizona, though he received no sanctions. Given he just started at Xavier, seems unlikely he would jump ship right off the bat. 

Greg McDermott, Creighton: Had Holtmann passed in 2017, Greg McDermott would likely have been the guy. He's built a great program at Creighton, though that was after flaming out at Iowa State. The knock on him is that he's pretty similar to Holtmann. He has one Sweet Sixteen appearance and one first place tie in the Big East and one conference win in the Missouri Valley. He's probably the most gettable coach from a major conference.

Chris Mack, Popeyes: Mack is from Ohio and was great at Xavier. That led to him getting the job at Louisville, where they ran him off for reasons that are still pretty weird, at least to me. His time at Louisville wasn't great, though he had a mess to clean up in the wake of Pitino and no support from the university. In any event, he's only 52 and seems destined to take another job at some point.

Jeff Boals, Ohio: Former assistant at OSU, coached at Stony Brook and now Ohio. Has been pretty decent - one tourney appearance and a win. Also probably pretty cheap.

Chris Jent, Lakers: Played at OSU, assistant at OSU. Never been a head coach anywhere. He'd be like the no name Juwan Howard hire.

Billy Donovan, Bulls: I don't follow the NBA much, but Donovan has been there a while to little success. He had lots of success at Florida. At some point, he seems bound to go back to school, though to date he hasn't shown much interest in it and is still under contract with Chicago. I'm sure they would kick the tires here.

Jerrod Calhoun, YSU: ELA mentioned him somewhere. He had a great tenure at Div. 2 Fairmont State. He has slowly turned Youngstown State into a legitimate basketball program, which is saying something. Still, that would be a big departure from what OSU normally does in basketball hires. 

Anthony Grant, Dayton: Grant has had a pretty uneventful tenure at Alabama and Dayton, with one exception - his Dayton team was pegged to be a #1 seed when the COVID tourney was cancelled, which is a pretty big youch for a program like Dayton. He fits the profile that Gene Smith seems to like - solid guys at midmajor type schools. 

Pat Kelsey, College of Charleston: Long time coach at Winthrop who was successful there, and is currently 26-3 in his second year at the College of Charleston. Seems likely to be a hot commodity. He's from Cincinnati so that's worth something. 


ELA

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2023, 11:20:58 PM »
I really like Calhoun.  But I can't imagine any top end power five school other than Ohio State hiring him, so I don't think you have to make a change to get him.  I think you can give Holtzman another year, and still get him next year. If it's not working out. That'll give you another year to evaluate him, whether it's another year of building at Youngstown State, or if he gets a mid major job at an MAC or MVC school

Kris60

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2023, 07:07:26 AM »
I really like Calhoun.  But I can't imagine any top end power five school other than Ohio State hiring him, so I don't think you have to make a change to get him.  I think you can give Holtzman another year, and still get him next year. If it's not working out. That'll give you another year to evaluate him, whether it's another year of building at Youngstown State, or if he gets a mid major job at an MAC or MVC school
He’s a Huggs protege.  His name pops up a lot when people start mentioning possible replacements for him.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2023, 09:18:31 AM »
I don't think Gene Smith has any intention of firing Holtmann this season absent him mooning the crowd. But say it does happen, or more likely, he leaves for another job.
LoL. Did you type this in jest? You can't be serious. Unfortunately, I've long since given up hope that Notre Dame or any other school would solve this problem for us.

Imagine, for a minute, that the situation was reversed:
  • Ohio State has a coach retiring.
  • Notre Dame's coach is in his sixth year and
  • He has never been to a S16, and
  • He has never won a league title, and
  • He was only even close to a league title once, in his first year, with his predecessor's recruits, and
  • His team is currently 3-13 in the league, and
  • His team is currently under .500 overall, and
  • His team has lost their last eight straight games, and
  • His team has lost 13 of their last 14 games, and
  • His team had regressed BADLY over the course of the season from as high as top-10 in some computers early to being a complete dumpster fire 🔥, and
  • Notre Dame fan sites are actively discussing replacing him, and
  • The Notre Dame AD has been questioned repeatedly about his status because his performance is so bad that such questions come up.
How would you feel if Ohio State hired that guy away from Notre Dame?


All of that said, I'm afraid you are right regarding Smith's likely intentions. Obviously the extension last year was a mistake and now we get to pat for it because:
  • It makes it harder psychologically for Smith to fire Holtmann because he has to effectively swallow his pride and admit his mistake, and
  • It makes it harder financially for Smith/Ohio State to fire Holtmann because the buyout is bigger.

Holtmann has obviously lost the team this year. His job status is now a legitimate issue. Taking those two facts into account it seems likely that we'll suffer defections this off-season either of recruits or of players via the portal.

Even if nobody defects, next year doesn't look very promising. *MAYBE* they could get back to Holtmann’s previous standard of being decent but not good enough to contend for the league title then getting quickly bounced from the NCAA tournament.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2023, 09:22:56 AM »
Serious question:
Does anyone other than @MaximumSam think that Holtmann should be retained?
Looking for opinions from other Ohio State guys such as @MaximumSam and myself but really, I'm more interested in more detached, dispassionate, and rational takes from neutral observers. What say you: @ELA @Kris60 @847badgerfan @boilerbanger 

@bayareabadger 
@betarhoalphadelta 

Etc?

847badgerfan

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2023, 09:35:28 AM »
If I'm Smith, I'm at least making a list.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

ELA

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2023, 09:49:58 AM »
I don't think it has reached a point where you have to fire him.  So I wouldn't fire him, and then conduct a search.  But if you've identified a target, and through back channel learned that he would take the job, then I think you do it

847badgerfan

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2023, 10:02:08 AM »
^^^

That's what I think is happening now.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Basketball Coaching Carousel
« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2023, 10:10:45 AM »
I'm not following close enough to know if this is a "must fire" situation, but it also doesn't appear to be a situation that I'd disagree with firing him.

Six years in. No real accomplishments.  Baseline performance below the level OSU has historically been able to reach. Team trending down rather than up, despite having talent. His best (first) season's results with a core Matta built.

People were calling for Painter to be canned after two bad seasons, but Painter had actually accomplished something prior to that, by recruiting and winning with the Baby Boilers and making the S16 twice. If Painter had Holtmann's resume when he had his two bad seasons, I would have said he was a failed experiment and canned him.

If I'm the OSU AD, I'm asking "what do I see in Chris Holtmann that makes me think he can do any better than what he's shown in his first 6 years?" And if I don't have a good answer, I find someone else.

 

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