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Topic: B1G Power Rankings, week 9

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MrNubbz

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2022, 06:28:36 PM »
1)Michigan put them here Buckeyes been playing better since I did
2)Buckeyes,coming alive in the 4th Qtr is becoming a thing
3)Illini - winning convincingly on the road
4)PSU - played OK and has faced the meat of the schedule
5)Maryland - had a bye
6)Badgers
7)Gophs
8)Boilers
9)Iowa
10)MSU
11) 'Skers
12)Hoosiers
13)Rut
14) NU
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 08:57:19 AM by MrNubbz »
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SuperMario

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2022, 08:01:32 PM »
👍👍👍👍Good Points,I'll still prolly maybe put M at one because since i did tOSU has looked better and better IMHO.Why mess with the recipe 😎 .The emergence of the D-Line under Knowles has been noticeable - can't teach speed
Was the Dline better or the PSU qb just a terrible decision maker? Maybe a little of both. I like your recipe so I’m voting Michigan 14th

ELA

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2022, 08:04:25 PM »
It feels like a perfect year for no CFP.  I think the Georgia-Tennessee winner and OSU-UM winner should play for the title, but some weird shit will happen

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2022, 08:31:23 AM »
  • Ohio State - Played a little shakey for 3 qtrs, but turned it on when they had to.
  • Michigan - After the first couple of possesions, took control of the game.
  • Penn State - Not quite at the top of the hill yet, but they are right there ready to assend to the top. They have some young, promising players that will make some noise over the next few seasons.
  • Illinois - Great defense. If they were a little more explosive on Offense, they could be a real threat. Also, still cannot get over losing to Indiana.
  • Maryland - Bye
  • Wisconsin - Bye
  • Minnesota - It was Rutgers, but still did what they had to.
  • Purdue - Bye
  • Iowa - Found an offense, if only against Northwestern.
  • Michigan State - Showed some fight, just a little too much at the end.
  • Rutgers - Schiano still has a lot of work to do.
  • Nebraska - I didn't see this game, but saw the result. It is about what I expected.
  • Indiana - Bye
  • Northwestern - Classiest coach in college football, I hope things turn around for him.

847badgerfan

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2022, 08:48:17 AM »
I'm quite surprised to see people ranking Purdue ahead of Wisconsin.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

LetsGoPeay

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2022, 08:50:03 AM »
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Illinois
4. Penn State
5. Wisconsin
6. Minnesota
7. Iowa
8. Purdue
9. Maryland
10. Nebraska
11. Michigan State
12. Rutgers
13. Indiana
14. Northwestern

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2022, 10:32:49 AM »
We all know the transitive property does not work at all. But if your going to apply it- be balanced about it.

you just said OSU did better against 2 of their 3 common opponents- but then you focus on the one where UM did better.

You can’t reasonably make that comparison.  OSU mutilated MSU in THEIR stadium, right out of the gate.  UM took a long time to put them away. But that’s a rivalry game. To me- that was a dominating win by Michigan.
I don't know, maybe you are right.  I've been tracking tOSU's and M's opponents by sagrin ranking all year and here are Michigan's seven wins sorted as such:

That PSU game is a major outlier.  The only other teams that Michigan was able to beat by 24 or more were their atrocious OOC opponents.  Ie, if Michigan is good enough to beat #14 PSU by 24 then:
  • Why did they only beat #38 Iowa by 13?
  • Why did they only beat #43 Maryland by 7?
  • Why did they only beat #49 MSU by 22?
  • Why did they only beat #85 IU by 21?  
Iowa, UMD, MSU, and IU are not as good as Penn State and for some reason Michigan's games against them were closer than their game against PSU.  Why?  


Here is another way to look at it.  I track all B1G teams games compared to each of their opponents' other B1G opponents.  Here is the table:

This is sorted by last week's power ranking because this week's isn't updated yet but it will be reasonably close so that doesn't matter much.  Explaining this table:
  • Each B1G team has now played five B1G games.  
  • Each B1G team's five league opponents are ranked relative to each other based on the scoring differential against the team in question.  For example, look at the tOSU row:
  • PSU lost to tOSU by 13 so they are #1
  • MSU lost to tOSU by 29 so they are #2
  • UW lost to tOSU by 31 so they are #3
  • RU lost to tOSU by 39 so they are #4
  • Iowa lost to tOSU by 44 so they are #5

Penn State's worst-of-the-year performance against Michigan is an obvious outlier that just jumps off the page.  It suggests that Penn State is worse than Maryland (only lost to M by 7), Iowa (only lost to M by 13), Indiana (only lost to M by 21), and MSU (only lost to M by 22).  

What to do with outliers?
On the one hand, maybe this was just a particularly good day for Michigan and/or a particularly bad day for Penn State.  OTOH, Michigan did something similar to Ohio State last year.  The Wolverines were pretty unimpressive for an eventual B1G Champion all year last year.  They only beat Rutgers by 7, UW by 21, UNL by 3, NU by 26, IU by 22, PSU by 4, and they LOST to MSU.  Their only really impressive league win prior to tOSU was beating Maryland badly but even there, their 41 point win wasn't as big as tOSU's 49 point win.  Then they rolled into THE GAME and looked like world-beaters for three-and-a-half hours.  Does Michigan simply have another gear that they reserve for only their best opponents?  Michigan's 2021 B1G opponents ranked against each other:
  • MSU beat them
  • Nebraska lost to them by 3
  • Penn State lost to them by 4
  • Rutgers lost to them by 7
  • Ohio State lost to them by 15
  • Wisconsin lost to them by 21
  • Indiana lost to them by 22
  • Northwestern lost to them by 26
  • Iowa lost to them by 39
  • Maryland lost to them by 41
MSU, UNL, PSU, and RU were absolutely NOT better than tOSU last year.  We know this because tOSU beat them by 49, 9, 9, and 39 points.  Also, Iowa was NOT one of the worst teams in the B1G last year.  I'll concede that they were overrated due to playing in the weaker division but they weren't worse than more than half of the eight B1G teams that did better against M than they did.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2022, 04:03:09 PM »
I'm quite surprised to see people ranking Purdue ahead of Wisconsin.
I find Wisconsin REALLY hard to rank right now for two reasons:
  • I think they have improved since earlier in the year relative to other teams but I'm not sure by how much, and
  • That MSU loss is still BAD.  

Judging by Wisconsin's recent results against Purdue and Northwestern I'd rank them as the best team in the West at #4.  However their other two most recent games (getting blown out at home by IL and losing at MSU) were just as bad as September Wisconsin.  

I get that UW has H2H over Purdue but they also have a H2H loss to MSU.  Also, Purdue has H2H over UMD and MN and a close loss to PSU.  So now what?  

As I see it, there are definitive tiers and the rankings within each tier are highly debatable:
  • tOSU, M
  • PSU
  • IL*
  • UMD, UW, PU, MN, IA^
  • MSU, UNL
  • RU, IU
  • NU
*There is a lot of difference of opinion on here as to whether PSU or IL should be #3 but I think the people who have Illinois #3 have been reeled in by Illinois' weak schedule.  Here they are with their opponents based on last week's power rankings:

Penn State has two losses but they were to the unanimous best two teams in the league and they have played four of the top-8 teams in the league.  Illinois lost to the second-worst team in the league and their best win was over a Wisconsin team that fired their coach the next day.  They both play bad teams this weekend (MSU, IU) and mediocre teams next weekend (UMD, PU).  Their schedules will equalize somewhat on November 19th when PSU gets Rutgers and Illinois gets Michigan.  


^Every team in my tier-4 has at least one game where you can say "Hey, they might be as good or better than Illinois" and at least one game where you can say "Hey, they might be as bad as MSU/UNL".  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2022, 04:20:57 PM »
Prior Rankings at R chronologically from last week (next to team name) to preseason (far R):


  • Michigan (2,2,2,3,3,2,2,2), I've moved them to #1 but I still have my doubts.  They have let WAY too many teams hang around WAY too long and I don't know how many times they can hit the "In Case of Emergency" button and expect it to work out.
  • Ohio State (1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1), This drop is more a reflection of Michigan looking good than anything tOSU did to deserve to drop. 
  • Penn State (3,3,3,2,1,3,4,4), Probably still the third best team in the league but it sucks for them that while they'd be the favorite to win the B1G-W they are almost mathematically eliminated in the B1G-E
  • Illinois (4,4,7,11,10,10,13,9), That loss in Bloomington looks stranger by the week. 
  • Purdue (5,6,6,9,7,7,7,7), Still in control of their own destiny in the B1G-W but . . .   
  • Minnesota (6,5,4,4,4,5,6,8), The Gophers managed to go from odds-on favorite to win the B1G-W to also-ran in two weeks.  Maybe the only B1G team with no close games.  They have double-digit wins over their bad opponents and double-digit losses to their good opponents. 
  • Wisconsin (10,9,9,6,5,6,3,3), Will the real Badgers please stand up?  Are you the team that shellacked PU and NU or the team that got shellacked by IL and lost to MSU?     
  • Maryland (8,7,5,5,8,8,9,12), In the B1G-W they'd be a contender.
  • Iowa (7,8,8,7,11,11,8,6), I still don't know what to think of Iowa.  Their defense is so good that they kept it close with Michigan and are a credible threat to upset anyone.  Conversely, their offense is so bad that anyone is a credible threat to beat them. 
  • Nebraska (9,10,12,13,14,14,14,14), It will be a long road if they are to get to contender even in the B1G-W. 
  • Michigan State (11,11,10,8,6,4,5,5), Based on last week's rankings, the Spartans play the top-6 teams in the league.  That makes things difficult.   
  • Indiana (12,13,13,12,12,12,12,10), How did they beat Illinois and in a bigger-picture how did this program go from up-and-comer to bottom-feeder so quickly? 
  • Rutgers (13,12,11,10,9,9,10,13), Schiano has a long ways to go.   
  • Northwestern (14,14,14,14,13,13,11,11), Honestly, 14th simply isn't low enough of a ranking for this team.   


847badgerfan

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2022, 04:27:55 PM »
I find Wisconsin REALLY hard to rank right now for two reasons:
  • I think they have improved since earlier in the year relative to other teams but I'm not sure by how much, and
  • That MSU loss is still BAD. 

Judging by Wisconsin's recent results against Purdue and Northwestern I'd rank them as the best team in the West at #4.  However their other two most recent games (getting blown out at home by IL and losing at MSU) were just as bad as September Wisconsin. 

It doesn't look as bad if you consider how many players (including starters) they were missing that day. It's a 2 OT loss on the road, in the dark.

U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Mdot21

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2022, 05:55:04 PM »
1) Ohio State
2) Michigan 
3) Penn State
4) Illinois
5) Maryland
6) Wisconsin 
7 Purdue
8) Minnesota 
9) Iowa
10) Rutgers
11) Michigan State
12) Nebraska 
13) Indiana
14) Northwestern

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2022, 09:27:21 AM »
It doesn't look as bad if you consider how many players (including starters) they were missing that day. It's a 2 OT loss on the road, in the dark.


I get that but MSU has just been shockingly bad this year. In their last six games they have five losses including blowouts to tOSU, M, and MN and a two TD loss to Maryland. The other game was a win over UW. As I said in my rankings, every team in that 5-9 group has good looking games and bad looking games and I feel like drawing names out of a hat wouldn't be any less accurate than trying to weigh the good and bad for those teams.

grillrat

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2022, 02:21:09 PM »
I'm quite surprised to see people ranking Purdue ahead of Wisconsin.
Probably the same reason that you had this in your rankings:


6. Minnesota 5-3, 2-3 in BT
7. Iowa
8. Purdue 5-3, 3-2 in BT, with H2H win @ Minnesota

Overall record of opponents:

Minnesota:  29-35
Purdue:  35-30


847badgerfan

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 9
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2022, 02:33:42 PM »
I think the Goophs would beat Purdue today, just as think Wisconsin would beat Purdue today.

My rankings are always about today - not so much about the past.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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