header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game

 (Read 13017 times)

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14328
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #126 on: November 27, 2018, 08:24:36 PM »
Think we all over estimated Dr Blitz and Harbaugh and all severely under estimated Urban Meyer. Michigan got schooled in the coaching match up. Flat up schooled. Props to Urban. He’s not one of the greatest ever for no reason.

Harbaugh’s Stone Age offense works better in the NFL where many teams still run that sort of offense. At the highest levels in college- just will never cut it. Was listening to Cris Carter on a radio podcast and agree with him 100% when he was just going in on Harbaugh and Michigan. Cris made a great point- he said he watches other teams in college like Oklahoma and he says wow that’s an innovative play- that’d be hard to defend like 25 times during the game. He says he watches Michigan and he never sees even one play like that. Hate to agree with the guy but he’s right. Michigan’s offense sucks.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 08:26:40 PM by Mdot21 »

SuperMario

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1266
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #127 on: November 27, 2018, 10:41:38 PM »
Think we all over estimated Dr Blitz and Harbaugh and all severely under estimated Urban Meyer. Michigan got schooled in the coaching match up. Flat up schooled. Props to Urban. He’s not one of the greatest ever for no reason.

Harbaugh’s Stone Age offense works better in the NFL where many teams still run that sort of offense. At the highest levels in college- just will never cut it. Was listening to Cris Carter on a radio podcast and agree with him 100% when he was just going in on Harbaugh and Michigan. Cris made a great point- he said he watches other teams in college like Oklahoma and he says wow that’s an innovative play- that’d be hard to defend like 25 times during the game. He says he watches Michigan and he never sees even one play like that. Hate to agree with the guy but he’s right. Michigan’s offense sucks.
We said it after week 2 or 3 as well. The only thing that changed is the defense played so well most of the year, it hid the offensive struggles. In the past, Michigan had boring offense with even more boring qbs, so we fooled ourselves this year because the qb is a bit more talented.
What’s most maddening to me has been the refusal to map out plays for DPJ, Nico & Tarik Black, in favor of throwing 12 times to very mediocre tight ends. Jake Butt has been gone for two years.
When your TE and Fullback are the focal point of your offense, you’re in the Stone Age. Sadly, I think Michigan had the edge with experience and talent this year, but Urban was playing chess while Jimmy was learning his abc’s.

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #128 on: November 27, 2018, 11:02:17 PM »
Yesterday marked seven years since ttun's last win over Ohio State.

Celebrating 2,558 days!

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14328
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #129 on: November 27, 2018, 11:43:28 PM »
We said it after week 2 or 3 as well. The only thing that changed is the defense played so well most of the year, it hid the offensive struggles. In the past, Michigan had boring offense with even more boring qbs, so we fooled ourselves this year because the qb is a bit more talented.
What’s most maddening to me has been the refusal to map out plays for DPJ, Nico & Tarik Black, in favor of throwing 12 times to very mediocre tight ends. Jake Butt has been gone for two years.
When your TE and Fullback are the focal point of your offense, you’re in the Stone Age. Sadly, I think Michigan had the edge with experience and talent this year, but Urban was playing chess while Jimmy was learning his abc’s.
That’s what makes me want to rip my hair out. They constantly take DPJ, Black, and Nico off the field to play 3 TE sets. Makes me fookin itrate. Those 3 kids are Sunday receivers. 
Sean McKeon is trash. Absolute trash. Every single play he’s involved in is a wasted play. Gentry is a stat padder. Big time talent but he feasts on the bad teams and comes up short in the biggest moments and vs the better teams.
Harbaugh and his staff still can’t figure out how to use Chris Evans properly. Kid would be a weapon in space playing for Urban. Here he’s wasted trying to make him a pound it between the tackles I-formation back. It’s asinine. The few times all year they throw passes to him and get him in space- he’s deadly.
Shea needs to be used more in the run game and those successful RPOs they had wrinkled in were completely missing vs Ohio State. Those plays should be a staple in the offense every week. 
Shea and those 3 NFL wide outs and the sophs Ronnie Bell & Oliver Martin and Chris Evans could be INCREDIBLE with a real offensive coach and a wide open, hurry up, creative scheme. 
I’m done with Harboffense and Pep. They flat out suck. 

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25061
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #130 on: November 28, 2018, 06:40:25 AM »
Yesterday marked seven years since ttun's last win over Ohio State.

Celebrating 2,558 days!
The longer it goes, the harder it is when it ends. Trust me.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #131 on: November 28, 2018, 08:47:43 AM »
The longer it goes, the harder it is when it ends. Trust me.
I know you just had a REALLY long one end (14 years, impressive!) but in my experience, I disagree.  I obviously NEVER enjoy my team losing to a rival but when they won in 2011 and 2003 it wasn't all that bad.  As long as my team won the previous game it feels somewhat even and when it gets to a long streak like you had and we have, you can write off a loss as one of those "a broken clock is right twice a day" or "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" kind of things.  It sucks, but it isn't THAT bad.  What REALLY sucks is losing two or more in a row like the Buckeyes did in 1999-2000, 1995-1997, and 1988-1991 (that one was even worse because after a tie in 1992 the Buckeyes lost again in 1993).  
It has been a LONG time since you have experienced consecutive losses to your rival (1993-1994), IMHO, that is what really sucks.  

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #132 on: November 28, 2018, 08:49:22 AM »
The longer it goes, the harder it is when it ends. Trust me.
Ya but you enjoyed the ride,and you can get on again
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 09:06:28 AM by MrNubbz »
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #133 on: November 28, 2018, 09:05:04 AM »
We said it after week 2 or 3 as well. The only thing that changed is the defense played so well most of the year, it hid the offensive struggles. In the past, Michigan had boring offense with even more boring qbs, so we fooled ourselves this year because the qb is a bit more talented.
What’s most maddening to me has been the refusal to map out plays for DPJ, Nico & Tarik Black, in favor of throwing 12 times to very mediocre tight ends. Jake Butt has been gone for two years.
When your TE and Fullback are the focal point of your offense, you’re in the Stone Age. Sadly, I think Michigan had the edge with experience and talent this year, but Urban was playing chess while Jimmy was learning his abc’s.
Good Post,I know you weren't sold on Shea/offense earlier in the season.Ya M's wr's have to be utilized better Collins made some nice snags and DPJ is tough.DJP looked good on a sideline catch had to be 8-9 guys in the scrum over there he was pinned down flip-flopped loose and got the xtra 2 yds for the 1st down.And Black has looked good from the get if he can stay out of the infirmary.
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Temp430

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2503
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #134 on: November 28, 2018, 11:17:06 AM »
Shea Patterson was running for his life all day.  It's amazing Michigan scored what they did.  Hard to execute any offensive play, no matter how brilliantly conceived, if your QB is running to stay alive.  On the other hand it was ridiculous how much time Haskins had to make his throws.  Not really a fair test.  You could have stuck your average Div. III QB in there and they would have looked good.  The Buckeye's OL played extremely well.  Considering the defense they were up against it has to be one of the best Ohio State OL performances of all time.
A decade of Victory over Penn State.

All in since 1969

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20280
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #135 on: November 28, 2018, 11:25:56 AM »
Shea Patterson was running for his life all day.  It's amazing Michigan scored what they did.  Hard to execute any offensive play, no matter how brilliantly conceived, if your QB is running to stay alive.  On the other hand it was ridiculous how much time Haskins had to make his throws.  Not really a fair test.  You could have stuck your average Div. III QB in there and they would have looked good.  The Buckeye's OL played extremely well.  Considering the defense they were up against it has to be one of the best Ohio State OL performances of all time.
What's the deal there?  The OL looked horrible against Notre Dame, but improved vastly over the course of the year, with Warriner getting due credit.  I said during the Rutgers game, that I thought that was the best I had seen Patterson all year, because he was throwing perfect passes against a surprising amount of pressure.  Wrote it off to being an off day for the line in a game that was tough to get up for.  They were slightly better, but not great, against Indiana, and then fell off a cliff against Ohio State.  Any speculation out there for the November regression on the line.  I will say, I think Rutgers defensive front was much better later in the year.  After that Michigan game they held Penn State to just 20 points, and then got good pressure on MSU, who lacked a QB who could beat it.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37407
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #136 on: November 28, 2018, 11:34:13 AM »
so, the knock when Harbaugh took over was the QB and O-line

obviously the QB play was improved this season, but not the O-line in matchups vs good D-lines
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Temp430

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2503
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #137 on: November 28, 2018, 11:47:23 AM »
What's the deal there?  The OL looked horrible against Notre Dame, but improved vastly over the course of the year, with Warriner getting due credit.  I said during the Rutgers game, that I thought that was the best I had seen Patterson all year, because he was throwing perfect passes against a surprising amount of pressure.  Wrote it off to being an off day for the line in a game that was tough to get up for.  They were slightly better, but not great, against Indiana, and then fell off a cliff against Ohio State.  Any speculation out there for the November regression on the line.  I will say, I think Rutgers defensive front was much better later in the year.  After that Michigan game they held Penn State to just 20 points, and then got good pressure on MSU, who lacked a QB who could beat it.
The starting RT JBB was out the last two games with some kind of injury.   His replacement, Spanellis, is just not good enough yet.  Saw that on the very first sack of the game.  Other than that the Buckeye's DL played up to their potential.  Michigan's OL showed great improvement but has a long way to go..especially at the tackles.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 11:51:16 AM by Temp430 »
A decade of Victory over Penn State.

All in since 1969

SuperMario

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1266
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #138 on: November 28, 2018, 12:38:17 PM »
What's the deal there?  The OL looked horrible against Notre Dame, but improved vastly over the course of the year, with Warriner getting due credit.  I said during the Rutgers game, that I thought that was the best I had seen Patterson all year, because he was throwing perfect passes against a surprising amount of pressure.  Wrote it off to being an off day for the line in a game that was tough to get up for.  They were slightly better, but not great, against Indiana, and then fell off a cliff against Ohio State.  Any speculation out there for the November regression on the line.  I will say, I think Rutgers defensive front was much better later in the year.  After that Michigan game they held Penn State to just 20 points, and then got good pressure on MSU, who lacked a QB who could beat it.
Maybe I'm alone in this thinking, but I've always thought that play calling can dramatically impact how good or poor an offensive line looks. IF there's zero creativity to an offensive, how much easier is it as a DC to put pressure on the line and QB? If I was a DC, I would predict with high confidence that the M offense would run some sort of power run with Hidgon on first down. Similar play or short pass play to the TE and distance would determine the 3rd down play. 
That being said, it's not the only thing that impacts an offensive line. Talent level, experience & injuries also play a large role, but those can be hidden or amplified with offensive scheme and play calling. 
I'm not sure I'm sold on Patterson, but I'm also equally unsure if it's him or play calling. 

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20280
  • Liked:
Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #139 on: November 28, 2018, 01:16:33 PM »
I can't disagree.  I think they did a better job of rolling Patterson out as the year progressed, compared to the opener, but too many of their runs were jams up the middle.

I wonder how many tendencies were being picked up by the end of the year, that based on what the OL did you could tell it was either a roll out pass, or a run up the middle.  Seems like something as simple as rolling Patterson, than handing a delay counter back the other way, even if it didn't work, may at least help break those tendencies.  That even a play that doesn't appear to work, if it makes the defense pause next time you show your bread and butter, can be a great play.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.