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Topic: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game

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MrNubbz

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #140 on: November 28, 2018, 01:22:29 PM »
ya but even on roll outs they could have used the WR's & Evans more creatively
“I always carry a flask of whiskey in case of a snakebite and furthermore I always carry a small snake.” - W.C. Fields

Hoss

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #141 on: November 28, 2018, 01:35:35 PM »
JMO, but the weakness of pro style offenses is the mental load it puts on the players and coaches. Simplistic perhaps, but as a Nebraska fan I’ve been through two iterations of the transition between pro style and spread-type offenses over the past ten years, and I believe it to be true.

The players are processing more information than their spread-offense peers due to the robust playbooks, and the coaches have less time to install and rep those expansive playbooks as well, compared to 20 years ago. The end result is that execution suffers compared to peers in spread systems with reduced playbooks;  half-field passing games in particular. Pro style players are thinking about assignments, spread offense players are thinking about how to play the man across from them.

There’s really no need for all that Bill Walsh-legacy stuff. Mumme and Leach figured how to compress the code for the WCO passing game years ago, and contemporary officiating allows you to throw with impunity, so you don’t need to run Power in order to prop up your pass pro. For better or worse, that’s where we are IMO.

SFBadger96

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #142 on: November 28, 2018, 02:15:36 PM »
What's the deal there?  The OL looked horrible against Notre Dame, but improved vastly over the course of the year, with Warriner getting due credit.  I said during the Rutgers game, that I thought that was the best I had seen Patterson all year, because he was throwing perfect passes against a surprising amount of pressure.  Wrote it off to being an off day for the line in a game that was tough to get up for.  They were slightly better, but not great, against Indiana, and then fell off a cliff against Ohio State.  Any speculation out there for the November regression on the line.  I will say, I think Rutgers defensive front was much better later in the year.  After that Michigan game they held Penn State to just 20 points, and then got good pressure on MSU, who lacked a QB who could beat it.
I'm going with: match-ups and injuries matter.
Not sure Rutgers got that much better, or played teams they were better suited to defend.
Likewise, not sure Michigan's OL got any worse, or played teams better suited to defend against them.

MrNubbz

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #143 on: November 28, 2018, 02:25:04 PM »
 Pro style players are thinking about assignments, spread offense players are thinking about how to play the man across from them.

There’s really no need for all that Bill Walsh-legacy stuff. Mumme and Leach figured how to compress the code for the WCO passing game years ago, and contemporary officiating allows you to throw with impunity, so you don’t need to run Power in order to prop up your pass pro. For better or worse, that’s where we are IMO.
Correct brought this up before.Like Yogi berra said "you can't think and hit at the same time".Lot of truth in that game moves too fast - read and react
“I always carry a flask of whiskey in case of a snakebite and furthermore I always carry a small snake.” - W.C. Fields

FearlessF

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #144 on: November 28, 2018, 02:49:06 PM »
Yogi couldn't think and talk at the same time
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #145 on: November 28, 2018, 03:04:04 PM »
And he won what 10 WS rings
“I always carry a flask of whiskey in case of a snakebite and furthermore I always carry a small snake.” - W.C. Fields

FearlessF

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #146 on: November 28, 2018, 03:06:15 PM »
and not because of his thinking
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #147 on: November 28, 2018, 03:21:22 PM »
And Lawrence Phillips won because of quick thinking?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 03:36:16 PM by MrNubbz »
“I always carry a flask of whiskey in case of a snakebite and furthermore I always carry a small snake.” - W.C. Fields

Mdot21

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #148 on: November 28, 2018, 06:05:34 PM »
Maybe I'm alone in this thinking, but I've always thought that play calling can dramatically impact how good or poor an offensive line looks. IF there's zero creativity to an offensive, how much easier is it as a DC to put pressure on the line and QB? If I was a DC, I would predict with high confidence that the M offense would run some sort of power run with Hidgon on first down. Similar play or short pass play to the TE and distance would determine the 3rd down play.
That being said, it's not the only thing that impacts an offensive line. Talent level, experience & injuries also play a large role, but those can be hidden or amplified with offensive scheme and play calling.
I'm not sure I'm sold on Patterson, but I'm also equally unsure if it's him or play calling.
I’m absolutely sold on Shea. It’s his coaches that I’m not sold on. 
You can see the talent he has. He’s got an accurate NFL arm, he can throw on the run accurately and he can really run and make plays with his legs.
His coach is in his heada- kid has played scared all year bc I think Harbaugh has drilled it into his head don’t turn it over. The offensive scheme and play calling is atrocious. The play calling system and the time management sucks. It’s really just an all around shit show. 
Kliff or Canada would turn that thing around in a NY minute if either was hired and given full control. 
Harbaugh’s ego and stubborness is going to be his down fall at Michigan.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #149 on: November 28, 2018, 06:43:39 PM »
I was in the 'Shoe for the game and watched the first half on DVR last night.  Three things struck me that I haven't seen discussed much here:

First, TOP:
All through the first half I was very concerned about the massive gap in time of possession.  While Ohio State was jumping out to the 21-6 lead the Buckeyes had:
  • Three TD drives totaling only about 8:30.  
  • Two three-and-outs of less than one minute each.  
Meanwhile the Wolverines had:
  • Two LONG FG drives of over 5 minutes each totaling 10:48.  
  • Two three-and-outs and a "four-and-out" each longer than Ohio State's unsuccessful drives and totaling about 5:30.  

All through the first half and into the second, I was worried about this because tired and worn out defenses tend to make mistakes that give up big plays and Ohio State's Defense has been bad about giving up big plays anyway.  

Second, dominating an opponent but only barely leading:
After the Ohio State/Penn State game this year we had a discussion about how often we have seen a team dominate the first half statistically but fail to get enough points out of that domination and end up losing like Penn State did.  In that game PSU had two FG's and a missed FG plus a fumble deep in their own territory which meant that their absolute statistical domination only led to a 13-7 Halftime lead.  

I was thinking about that in this game, especially after the disaster on the kickoff after Michigan's TD made it just a two point game.  I was VERY concerned that only achieving a two point lead after dominating most of the first half statistically would come back to bite the Buckeyes.  Even the end-of-half FG did not do much to alleviate my concerns.  The Buckeyes had a HUGE advantage in yards and a five point lead at halftime.  That sounded frighteningly like Penn State's situation at halftime of the tOSU/PSU game.  

Third, Harbaugh's decision to go for two:
What was he thinking?  In the Stadium I was explaining to my wife that most teams do not start going for two until the fourth quarter because if you fail to get it you can wind up chasing it all game long.  The rest of the game ended up being a perfect illustration of my football lesson for my wife.  
  • Harbaugh went for two down by 2 in the second quarter.  
  • Harbaugh went for two again down by 16 in the fourth quarter.   It would have been 15 if they had kicked the PAT.  
  • When Harbaugh finally went back to kicking PAT's his team was down 17 and he needed the PAT to make it a possibly two possession game.  It would have been 15 if they had kicked the two PAT's.  

Brutus Buckeye

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ELA

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Mdot21

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #152 on: December 11, 2018, 03:24:50 PM »
He's certainly passionate, but at times it's best to just shut up

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2018/12/11/michigan-football-chase-winovich-mirage-ohio-state/2278378002/
yeah Chase should probably just keep his mouth shut on that. Take the L like a man and move on.

 

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