2023 NFL Draft Thread

[FearlessF]

Was Washington the #2 guy?, cause I heard they ran two TE sets and he played many snaps

[betarhoalphadelta]

I tend to think it's probably because freak athletes like him can dominate certain levels of play w/o being fundamentally great and also because their starting TE is one of the 5 best players in the country.

And sometimes those freak athletes are in for a RUDE awakening when they get to a higher level of competition--such as the NFL--and realize that the guy on the other side of the LOS is just as much of a freak athlete as himself, but also has excellent fundamentals. 

[Cincydawg]

Was Washington the #2 guy?, cause I heard they ran two TE sets and he played many snaps

They did run a lot of 12 formations, but Bowers got most of the targets.  Darnell was basically a guy you had to try and cover with a safety somehow pulling coverage away from others  He did play a LOT, I'd call him 1b with 1a.

I never know how someone will play in the NFL though, a lot hinges on where he goes and injuries of course.

[bayareabadger]

And sometimes those freak athletes are in for a RUDE awakening when they get to a higher level of competition--such as the NFL--and realize that the guy on the other side of the LOS is just as much of a freak athlete as himself, but also has excellent fundamentals.

I mean, doesn’t that happen to most everyone when they get to the NFL? Even the kids with good fundamentals run into better older players who also have good fundamentals.

I don’t know if he will be good or not, but the criticism here seems to be mostly based on a workout? Which I’m told his bad. And I did watch him kick ass playing actual football, which seems like it would be a good barometer?

Not to mention that Washington’s teammates ain’t exactly 2-star athletes. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I mean, doesn’t that happen to most everyone when they get to the NFL? Even the kids with good fundamentals run into better older players who also have good fundamentals.

I don’t know if he will be good or not, but the criticism here seems to be mostly based on a workout? Which I’m told his bad. And I did watch him kick ass playing actual football, which seems like it would be a good barometer?

Not to mention that Washington’s teammates ain’t exactly 2-star athletes. 

Well, I think that there are a lot of players at lower levels who get by with freak athleticism and don't put in the effort on fundamentals because they're lazy and they're successful without it. Eventually you run into someone who has both. And the NFL is full of those people. Because the lazy ones get weeded out (or sack up and learn the fundamentals). 

I'm not really speaking about Washington in particular. I think this is a common thing seen across sports, so I was thinking more of the general case. 

As for Washington, I can't really claim either way. OAM is a former OL, and I'm not. So I'll stipulate for the point of discussion that he is correct. If so, Washington might need to work on that to be successful at the next level. 

[Riffraft]

The combine is only driving Richardson’s hype higher. Weird how I can watch as many Gators games as I do and never once find anything in Richardson’s play that translates to potential success in the NFL. Leave it to one dumb GM to spend a high draft pick on Richardson anyway. We talked in another thread on how ADs time and time again get away with very costly contract extensions which quite often seem more about serving hype than positioning the program for better results.

I’m always surprised to see GMs similarly serve hype rather than process through the layers of context around college prospects as part of making a careful decision. For instance, when it comes to drafting QBs, was the prospect an accurate passer? If NO, move on. If yes, than was the offense overhauled to raise accuracy? Keep in mind Tebow threw for a 67% college accuracy with an offense was redesigned around his blind spots. If not, and the prospect kept his numbers high regardless of what went on around him, that’s a QB for whom I’d like to study more game tape, interview, workout, etc. Deshaun Watson is an example where the game tape puts his combine numbers to rest.

The GMs that won’t/can’t do this really stand out as individuals holding jobs they are in no way qualified for. And across the working world there are A LOT of individuals working positions well beyond their capacity.

Only issue with what you said (and I agree with you) is Josh Allen.  His accuracy in Gollege was not good, which he why I was against the Browns drafting him that year.  I guess he is the expection that proves the rule. 

[OrangeAfroMan]

NFL GMs seem to always be grasping for the exceptions.  The argument FOR it is that all 10-year NFL starting players are exceptional.  
The argument against it is that no matter where you pick or how smart you are, those exceptional players are rare and hard to find.  
.
I don't feel like I was criticizing Washington, just discussed 1 short video and said he's a backup (yes, 1b) to one of the best players in the country.  Just discussion, not being harsh or anything.
.
With his physical gifts, great coaching could make him a terror for defenses.  

[bayareabadger]

Well, I think that there are a lot of players at lower levels who get by with freak athleticism and don't put in the effort on fundamentals because they're lazy and they're successful without it. Eventually you run into someone who has both. And the NFL is full of those people. Because the lazy ones get weeded out (or sack up and learn the fundamentals).

I'm not really speaking about Washington in particular. I think this is a common thing seen across sports, so I was thinking more of the general case.

As for Washington, I can't really claim either way. OAM is a former OL, and I'm not. So I'll stipulate for the point of discussion that he is correct. If so, Washington might need to work on that to be successful at the next level.

Gotcha. 

I think there's a near universality to that.

[rook119]

If there is one position where "measurables" seem to pan out its CB.

I always wanted to see a 6'4" combine freak play corner. And if we are drafting dudes for "upside" wouldn't this make Richardson's ceiling a bigger and just as fast version of Rod Woodson?

[OrangeAfroMan]

6'4" guys can be as fast as 6' guys, or even faster over long sprint distances (a la Usain Bolt), but they can't be as quick/agile.  No matter the freakishness, longer limbs take longer to change direction in a small space. 
I'm saying this because while we have 6'4" WRs, CBs have to be better than WRs.  

[Cincydawg]

How many of the great/near great QBs in the NFL showed up great in the Combine/Wonderlic?

Shirley, someone has looked at the analytics of this.

How many great college QBs excel at the evals and then fade?

[Kris60]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-combine-2023-west-virginia-wr-accomplishes-combine-feat-matched-by-only-two-players-including-dk-metcalf/

Here’s the WR version of Richardson.  Off the chart workout numbers but the pesky part of playing receiver, catching the ball, sometimes plagued him.  Some WVU fans are blaming Neal Brown’s lousy offense for Wheaton’s lack of production.  There is probably some truth in that, but he also had opportunities to make plays and just didn’t.

[FearlessF]

playmakers make plays

[Cincydawg]

How in your opinion is the best college player ever to be a near bust in the NFL (aside from injury)?

Probably some QB I'm thinking.