2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread

[medinabuckeye1]

It certainly doesn't seem imminent, but these things can change quickly.

He'd never admit it, but I think winning a second national title is extremely important to him.

That makes a lot of sense in terms of legacy.  As a fan of a B1G Program but not a fan of either of the programs that these guys coached, I'd put him next to Bob Knight as the best two B1G BB coaches within my memory*.  I was curious so I checked Wiki to compare:
NC's:

• 3 for Knight 1976, 1981, 1987
• 1 for Izzo 2000

F4's:

• 8 for Izzo 1999, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015, 2019
• 5 for Knight 1973, 1976, 1981, 1987, 1992

League titles (regular season):

• 11 for Knight 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1993
• 10 for Izzo 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2018, 2019, 2020

Izzo has a lot more F4's but to be fair about half of Knight's tenure was before the expansion to 64.  Granted, that cuts both ways because you needed less wins to make the F4 IF you made the tournament but the tournament was also a LOT more exclusive.  Izzo made F4's without winning the B1G in 2005 and 2015.  Knight only did that once, in 1992.  

Izzo has had a lot more tournament success up to the F4 but Knight had a lot more success in the final four.  Three of Knight's five F4's ended with Indiana cutting down the nets, only one of Izzo's eight F4's ended with the Spartans cutting down the nets.  

Even though Knight played for Ohio State and won an NC as a player at Ohio State, I still consider myself "neutral" as between IU coach Knight and MSU coach Izzo.  As such, it is this "neutral" fan's position that I'd rank Knight just slightly ahead of Izzo in terms of greatest B1G BB Coaches.  That is true for now but Knight is 82 years old and has been out of coaching for 15 years while Izzo is 68 and has the co-favorites in the league for the upcoming season.  If Izzo stays a while, picks up a few more league titles, another F4 or two, and an other NC, that would make it a really close call and I'd probably lean to Izzo based on the (then) 9+ F4's, more league titles, and close NC's.  

*My memory:
Knight coached at Indiana forever.  He started in 1971 which was before I was born and got fired in 2000 by which time I was a 25 year old college graduate.  Thus, Knight is a B1G BB coach within my memory but to be honest, most of his success came before I had any awareness of it.  By the time I had any awareness of him, Knight was already known as a great BB Coach with multiple NC's to his credit.  

Izzo, OTOH, took over the top job in East Lansing while I was a student at Ohio State so I've seen all of his teams.  

[medinabuckeye1]

Preseason AP Poll:

• KU
• Dook
• Purdue
• Michigan State
• Marquette
• UCONN
• Houston
• Creighton
• TN
• FAU
• Gonzaga
• Zona
• Miami, FL
• Arkansas
• aTm
• UK
• SDSU
• TX
• UNC
• Baylor
• USC
• Villanova
• Saint Mary's
• Bama
• Illinois

Additionally, Wisconsin (1st), Maryland (5th), and Indiana (15th) are among the ORV.  

The Coaches poll is similar at least for our league.  Purdue moves up a spot to #2 (ahead of Dook) and Illinois drops a spot from 25th to 1st among the ORV.  Wisconsin (2nd), Maryland (3rd), tOSU (7th), and Indiana (11th) are among ORV.  


Based on that and our discussion above, new proposed tiers:

• Purdue, Michigan State
• Maryland, Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana (all four have votes in both polls)
• Ohio State, Northwestern, Iowa, Rutgers, Michigan
• Nebraska
• Penn State, Minnesota

Tiers #2 and #3 probably have too many teams but I'm thinking that will sort itself out once we see them start playing.  It is possible that one of UMD/IL/UW/IU will pop up and contend with PU/MSU and it is likely that at least one of them will look no better than tOSU/NU/IA/RU/M.  Also, at least one of tOSU/NU/IA/RU/M will probably need dropped to tier-4.  

[bayareabadger]

 What I can't stand about Gonzaga is that nobody seems to consider the pathetic weakness of their schedule.  They play a few top teams early but overall their OOC isn't usually much better than the other top teams. The difference is that the other top teams spend their conference seasons playing good teams week in and week out. Gonzaga spends their conference seasons fattening up on cupcakes.

What I really can't stand is grown adults who can't seem to express relatively mundane sports opioions without tearing down good teams and sh%&$ing on college kids. 

Here's a simple, grown up way to express that sentiment:

"I think that while college sports claims to be level in some way, ultimately, we know it's not, and strength of schedule needs to carry much more weight than it does. It's true that a team has only so much control there, but ultimately, I just don't care. If the Boston Celtics played in the A10, then by God, they should be capped at around a 7 seed. That's just how it should be." 

See, easy, clean, polite, free of unneeded bile. Of course, we're also free to start the campaign to add them to the B1G as basketball only members. They could get a real slate. We could see even more quality basketball and make the conference slates that much stronger. Wins all around! 

[medinabuckeye1]

What I really can't stand is grown adults who can't seem to express relatively mundane sports opioions without tearing down good teams and sh%&$ing on college kids.

If there are any Gonzaga players here, I extend my apologies to them and urge them to get out of here and go to class/practice. Everyone else can deal with it.

Here's a simple, grown up way to express that sentiment:

"I think that while college sports claims to be level in some way, ultimately, we know it's not, and strength of schedule needs to carry much more weight than it does. It's true that a team has only so much control there, but ultimately, I just don't care. If the Boston Celtics played in the A10, then by God, they should be capped at around a 7 seed. That's just how it should be."

For that reason, the part of their schedule that I mainly object to is the part that the school can control. Their OOC last year included:

• Eastern Oregon which is so far down that ESPN doesn't even have a link for them, Div 3?
• UNF, finished 7th in the ASUN
• Portland State, finished 7th in the Bsky
• Kent, 2nd MAC
• NIU, 6th MAC
• Montana, 4th Bsky

This would be fine for Michigan State, Kansas, or Kentucky because those teams will balance that off with legitimate challenges in almost every league game. Gonzaga does not have that. In a given year they'll have a handful of legitimate challenges in their league and the rest of their league games will be equivalent to the crappy early OOC games that most of us complain about our teams playing.

When you absolutely know, year in and year out that your league will not even come remotely close to measuring up to the serious BB leagues and you want to be treated like a serious BB power, you should schedule an insanely challenging OOC to make up for your insanely weak conference.

I honest think their scheduling hurts their Tournament performance because generally by the time they get to the NCAA they end up seeing serious opposition for (almost) the first time in three months.

[bayareabadger]

If there are any Gonzaga players here, I extend my apologies to them and urge them to get out of here and go to class/practice. Everyone else can deal with it.For that reason, the part of their schedule that I mainly object to is the part that the school can control. Their OOC last year included:

• Eastern Oregon which is so far down that ESPN doesn't even have a link for them, Div 3?
• UNF, finished 7th in the ASUN
• Portland State, finished 7th in the Bsky
• Kent, 2nd MAC
• NIU, 6th MAC
• Montana, 4th Bsky

This would be fine for Michigan State, Kansas, or Kentucky because those teams will balance that off with legitimate challenges in almost every league game. Gonzaga does not have that. In a given year they'll have a handful of legitimate challenges in their league and the rest of their league games will be equivalent to the crappy early OOC games that most of us complain about our teams playing.

When you absolutely know, year in and year out that your league will not even come remotely close to measuring up to the serious BB leagues and you want to be treated like a serious BB power, you should schedule an insanely challenging OOC to make up for your insanely weak conference.

I honest think their scheduling hurts their Tournament performance because generally by the time they get to the NCAA they end up seeing serious opposition for (almost) the first time in three months.

Portland State was part of the Nike event, so not in their control, really.

The other five, well that comes down to what you want to be, a real basketball program, or a Medina-satisfying machine. You need some home games. Basketball teams are theoretically for home fans to see. Real teams almost exclusively don’t want to go there and don’t see profit on doing so.

Again, there is a perfectly easy way to say you think their ceiling should be limited without getting worked up and pissing all over them. Also, insanely seems a little strong. There’s a whole world of CBB out there. Shoot, there’s more than 20 worse leagues.

[boilerbanger]

I feel like Michigan State is over hyped this year due to a strong NCAA Tourney performance (beating Marquette) and not reviewing the entire body of work from last year.  Not saying they don't get to be one of the best teams by March, but I don't see it out of the gate.

[medinabuckeye1]

Portland State was part of the Nike event, so not in their control, really.

The other five, well that comes down to what you want to be, a real basketball program, or a Medina-satisfying machine. You need some home games. Basketball teams are theoretically for home fans to see. Real teams almost exclusively don’t want to go there and don’t see profit on doing so.

Again, there is a perfectly easy way to say you think their ceiling should be limited without getting worked up and pissing all over them. Also, insanely seems a little strong. There’s a whole world of CBB out there. Shoot, there’s more than 20 worse leagues.

The difference with those 20 worse leagues is that none of them have a team even remotely similar to Gonzaga in terms of reputation and "name". 

Every other team that is above, at, or even remotely close to Gonzaga's reputation/name plays a VASTLY tougher league slate. 

[ELA]

He's not wrong.  I mean they got what they deserved, but not based on what everyone else got

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/38691484/oklahoma-state-coach-mike-boynton-says-ncaa-owes-apology-postseason-ban

[MaximumSam]

KenPom ranked the Zags schedule as 45th last year. Purdue ranked 32nd and Duke 51st.

[boilerbanger]

Purdue v Gonzaga in Round 1 of the Maui Tournament ... should be a good one, Gonzaga will be out for revenge after the ass whooping they received in the Nike tournament from Edey and the Boilers last year.  This is one time I would like to see history repeat itself.

[ELA]

For Kansas, the team's No. 1 ranking in The Associated Press top-25 preseason poll is no surprise. For Hunter Dickinson, the former Michigan star who joined the Jayhawks in May, the ranking is validation.

"I like it. I like people knowing it because I want them to know we're better than them," Dickinson told ESPN on Wednesday at Big 12 media day in Kansas City. "And they're coming in here to try to upset us."

[847badgerfan]

Such a dick.

[boilerbanger]

I so hope Purdue and Kansas square off in the finals of the Maui Invitational ... would love to stick it up hiss ass.

[medinabuckeye1]

I so hope Purdue and Kansas square off in the finals of the Maui Invitational ... would love to stick it up hiss ass.

What is your expectation for Purdue this year?

As an outsider my impression is that Edey returning makes them a threat to anybody but if they can't get improved production from the other four spots, their ceiling is limited.