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Topic: Misfits Thread

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Kris60

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7238 on: August 28, 2020, 07:21:44 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2020, 10:13:43 PM
This is my favorite demographic now.  The evangelicals being a major subset of it.  THE #1 most hypocritic group of humans, ever. 
Evangelicals have become a one issue voting block, imo. Abortion.  The thinking is if we can’t agree that babies shouldn’t be killed, then what else is there to talk about?  There has to be some things we fundamentally are in lock step on.

If you and I were tasked with coming up for new rules for college football and the first thing out of my mouth was, “Ok, no more running the football. Everything is a pass play” then we would probably have trouble moving onto other rules if every proposal I had was tied to eliminating the running game.

For better or worse, that’s what abortion is to evangelicals.  They (I’m saying they but I would fit in that group) think if we can’t agree on the right to life, then what else is there to talk about?
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7239 on: August 28, 2020, 07:27:29 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 06:04:28 AM
Anyone who asks hard questions on a message board tends to get derided and "kicked out".  Hard questions need to be asked, in my view, even if, because, they make us uncomfortable or angry.
Exchange snarky remarks/attacks with "hard questions" and you have the scenerio - with distressing frequency I might add.Being passionate is not an excuse for being an ass
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 07:35:17 AM by MrNubbz »
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7240 on: August 28, 2020, 07:34:00 AM »
If a poster annoys me, I generally just laugh it off.  We're not going to change opinions here, not often anyway.  We can bring "data" to the discussion, even if it's about Sweden, which seems for some reason to be a topic I'm not to surface even though I find it interesting.

I frankly don't know what the best path to COVID would have been, but I think it merits examining any country that did something different, including the Asian countries where mask wearing is common, and not wearing a mask is socially unaccepted.


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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7241 on: August 28, 2020, 07:36:12 AM »
It interesting to me that many people form opinions first, usually based on their political leaning, and then cherry pick facts to support said opinion.  They prefer THIS news channel to that, and this source of opinion on line to that, etc.  Confirmation bias.  It's rampant.  The willingness to challenge one's own beliefs and opinions with contrary opinions and facts is uncomfortable, and the effort usually devolves into name calling.

It also is the origin of much "bad science" that has existed.
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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7242 on: August 28, 2020, 08:02:45 AM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on August 27, 2020, 05:53:05 PM
currently the power is with the citizens of each state

why would you want to take that power away
The House was supposed to be the voice of the people in the Federal gov't while the Senate was to be the voice of the States. Since the passing of the 17th Amendment, the States of ceded more and more authority to the Fed Gov't which has caused the Fed Gov't to expand well beyond what was envisioned. This has also given power to the 2 party system. Instead of Senators being accountable to their states, they have become accountable to their parties. In Ohio, our 2 Senators take their marching orders from Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer. If you want to know how they will vote on an issue, ask those 2 individuals. Prior to the 17th, the state legislature held control of the states senators. If they did not keep the states interest in their voting, they would be replaced by the legislature. 
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7243 on: August 28, 2020, 08:03:01 AM »
Quote from: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 07:21:44 AM
Evangelicals have become a one issue voting block, imo. Abortion.  The thinking is if we can’t agree that babies shouldn’t be killed, then what else is there to talk about?  There has to be some things we fundamentally are in lock step on.

If you and I were tasked with coming up for new rules for college football and the first thing out of my mouth was, “Ok, no more running the football. Everything is a pass play” then we would probably have trouble moving onto other rules if every proposal I had was tied to eliminating the running game.

For better or worse, that’s what abortion is to evangelicals.  They (I’m saying they but I would fit in that group) think if we can’t agree on the right to life, then what else is there to talk about?
I'm solidly pro-life.  I believe that abortion is a killing.
But who the president has not moved the needle on abortion as a legal issue or on how many women abort their babies.
Abortion--thankfully--has been going down since the 1990s under pro-life and pro-choice presidents alike.
And justices appointed by ostensibly pro-life Republican presidents have not proven to be reliable opponents of abortion.  Just recently, Kavanaugh voted with the liberals to create a deadlock that left a lower court's pro-abortion ruling stand.
I don't think our POTUS personally cares about abortion, but he knows that his white evangelical base does, so he makes it an issue.  Same reason he held up a Bible in front of the boarded-up church (which I found disgusting).  Same reason he moved the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (which I favored).
I don't think "he'll appoint pro-life judges" is enough of a reason to vote for a scoundrel.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7244 on: August 28, 2020, 08:03:25 AM »
Quote from: Kris60 on August 28, 2020, 07:21:44 AM
Evangelicals have become a one issue voting block, imo. Abortion.  The thinking is if we can’t agree that babies shouldn’t be killed, then what else is there to talk about?  There has to be some things we fundamentally are in lock step on.

If you and I were tasked with coming up for new rules for college football and the first thing out of my mouth was, “Ok, no more running the football. Everything is a pass play” then we would probably have trouble moving onto other rules if every proposal I had was tied to eliminating the running game.

For better or worse, that’s what abortion is to evangelicals.  They (I’m saying they but I would fit in that group) think if we can’t agree on the right to life, then what else is there to talk about?
Exactly.  And their lack of respect for life tends to undermine ALL of their faux bluster about inclusion. 
it is never about inclusion.  It’s about getting their fingers on anything they don’t have.  Give them what they ask for, they just want something else.  Classic Marxism.
for the record- I don’t associate this with other forum members, but one.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7245 on: August 28, 2020, 08:04:45 AM »
Quote from: CWSooner on August 28, 2020, 08:03:01 AM
I'm solidly pro-life.  I believe that abortion is a killing.
But who the president has not moved the needle on abortion as a legal issue or on how many women abort their babies.
Abortion--thankfully--has been going down since the 1990s under pro-life and pro-choice presidents alike.
And justices appointed by ostensibly pro-life Republican presidents have not proven to be reliable opponents of abortion.  Just recently, Kavanaugh voted with the liberals to create a deadlock that left a lower court's pro-abortion ruling stand.
I don't think our POTUS personally cares about abortion, but he knows that his white evangelical base does, so he makes it an issue.  Same reason he held up a Bible in front of the boarded-up church (which I found disgusting).  Same reason he moved the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem (which I favored).
I don't think "he'll appoint pro-life judges" is enough of a reason to vote for a scoundrel.
Not to vote for one scoundrel over the other
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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7246 on: August 28, 2020, 08:17:09 AM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on August 27, 2020, 06:05:19 PM
Okay, so you're retreating to the fact that he wasn't defending neo-Nazis. He was just defending "proud Southerners" who objected to tearing down Confederate statues and renaming a park that was named after the lead general from the losing side.

There have been so many dog whistles I forgot to mention his unbridled support for the symbols of the confederacy--including the flag.

Why would the President Of The United States Of America support the symbols of the CSA so strongly?
Perhaps because they are Americans too. To many times, people forget that even though they may live in a different part of the country, the opinions, lives and traditions of people in the South are somehow inferior to yours. The left has made everything that defines our nation as racist or a "dog whistle". Michelle Obama alluded to all of this when her husband was running for President. She stated:

Quote
"Barack knows that we are going to have to make sacrifices; we are going to have to change our conversation; we're going to have to change our traditions, our history; we're going to have to move into a different place as a nation."
In the opinions of many, removing statues is one way that the left is attempting to "change our history". The fact of the matter is, you can't change history but you can try to rewrite it to comport to ones own ideas. Perhaps if more people would have listened to what the left has been telling us they want to do, more people would have realized it and stood up to it before now. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7247 on: August 28, 2020, 08:18:36 AM »
Just to throw out their I am solidly pro-choice and I think efforts to incarcerate women and doctors over abortion are evil.
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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7248 on: August 28, 2020, 08:22:41 AM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on August 27, 2020, 06:05:25 PM
Back to the state government. So in this case the people of the state are not the state, but the politicians are.

We had the 17th amendment chat a while back. And in the most neutral way, it struck me as an interesting brand of elitism. I'm not saying that in terms of bringing any baggage with it. In a lot of decision-making, elitism is a benefit (a person with elite engineering knowledge should be in charge of engineering projects). But when we say, the people who select senators should be state reps and governors rather than the people of a state, we're arguing for elitism.
You do realize that his country was not founded as a Democracy? The founders intentionally set up the government as a Republic for a reason. They knew that a Democracy would collapse upon itself when the people found that they could vote to have the government give them money from the treasury. You do also realize that the members of the State Legislature are themselves voted into office by the people? Getting back to the original intent of the founders is not elitism. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7249 on: August 28, 2020, 08:25:08 AM »
Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:22:41 AM
You do realize that his country was not founded as a Democracy? The founders intentionally set up the government as a Republic for a reason. 
Make it stop
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7250 on: August 28, 2020, 08:26:20 AM »
Quote from: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 28, 2020, 08:02:45 AM
The House was supposed to be the voice of the people in the Federal gov't while the Senate was to be the voice of the States. Since the passing of the 17th Amendment, the States of ceded more and more authority to the Fed Gov't which has caused the Fed Gov't to expand well beyond what was envisioned. This has also given power to the 2 party system. Instead of Senators being accountable to their states, they have become accountable to their parties. In Ohio, our 2 Senators take their marching orders from Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer. If you want to know how they will vote on an issue, ask those 2 individuals. Prior to the 17th, the state legislature held control of the states senators. If they did not keep the states interest in their voting, they would be replaced by the legislature.
States are run by the parties as well.  I really dont think states governments selecting the senators would keep senators from reflecting which party runs the state.  While your goal is good your solution would not achieve it
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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7251 on: August 28, 2020, 08:37:30 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 28, 2020, 06:04:28 AM
One could logically have a POV that some social "progress" is not progress.  We are now rather accepting of unmarried women getting pregnant, is that social progress?

And by "accepting", I don't just mean it's accepted generally as "not a bad thing", I mean that it is considered very normal and proper.

We might be better off societally if we collectively viewed it as something to avoid.  Our culture at one time looked down on "living on the dole".

But, it's a matter of perspective I suppose.

Anyone who asks hard questions on a message board tends to get derided and "kicked out".  Hard questions need to be asked, in my view, even if, because, they make us uncomfortable or angry.


I may not agree with all of your positions on issues, but I really do admire your common sense and demeanor. Very well stated. :c017: 
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