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Topic: Misfits Thread

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8834 on: September 09, 2020, 02:38:33 PM »
You seem to think that I am some huge pro-police guy, just because I side with them over the BLM/Antics types. I have plenty of problems with police. If you want to pit the police against the pot heads or other nonviolent criminals, fine. I'll side against police. But that's not what this movement is about. This is a coordinated effort to paint violent criminals as the good guys, and the cops that have to deal with those scumbags everyday as the bad guys, so I'm out. I don't give a shit if the cops gun down a rapist who is fighting with them, and trying to retrieve a weapon from his car. That is precisely what the police SHOULD be doing, instead of executing paramilitary style no knock warrants over someone's botanical practices.
If the police were just rolling around ordering people into their homes and then shooting them with paintballs, it would be appalling. But given the backdrop of looting and rioting, it becomes a lot more understandable in my opinion. Tensions are high, and the reasons are bullshit.
Fair enough. I went back because I thought you were the one asking whether peaceful protesters were being pepper-sprayed. It turns out that was 847 asking about that.

I still think it's BS that NG troops fired upon someone legally, peacefully standing on their porch with a cellphone. 

Because I care about my own safety, if a cop asks me to do something I'm going to comply. But it doesn't mean I'll agree with it, and I believe those who choose to civilly disobey unlawful orders do not deserve to have cops abuse their authority and attack them.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8835 on: September 09, 2020, 02:39:54 PM »
Once there was a brawl outside my apartment that drew police helicopters and swarms of cops armed with shot guns. At one point the helicopter lowered itself down to my porch, and ordered me inside. I went in, and watched from the window.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8836 on: September 09, 2020, 02:41:16 PM »
where does line belong in civilly disobey?

I didn't see the video, but it's possible someone threw something or yelled something threatening or some other not quite so civil action
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8837 on: September 09, 2020, 02:41:52 PM »
Once there was a brawl outside my apartment that drew police helicopters and swarms of cops armed with shot guns. At one point the helicopter lowered itself down to my porch, and ordered me inside. I went in, and watched from the window.

rough neighborhood
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8838 on: September 09, 2020, 02:44:13 PM »
You seem to think that I am some huge pro-police guy, just because I side with them over the BLM/Antics types. I have plenty of problems with police. If you want to pit the police against the pot heads or other nonviolent criminals, fine. I'll side against police. But that's not what this movement is about. This is a coordinated effort to paint violent criminals as the good guys, and the cops that have to deal with those scumbags everyday as the bad guys, so I'm out. I don't give a shit if the cops gun down a rapist who is fighting with them, and trying to retrieve a weapon from his car. That is precisely what the police SHOULD be doing, instead of executing paramilitary style no knock warrants over someone's botanical practices.
If the police were just rolling around ordering people into their homes and then shooting them with paintballs, it would be appalling.
But given the backdrop of looting and rioting, it becomes a lot more understandable in my opinion. Tensions are high, and the reasons are bullshit.
This seems like it would incentivize police to explain that every situation they're in is a high stress one, so all of their actions that infringe on folks' rights are fully just, unless it's in super specific circumstances. 

Even if you say you're not a huge pro police guy, what you've said above is the government should have pretty wide discretion to inflict violence on its citizenry. I tend to think that should be relatively narrow. It's hard to make that happen because of the home for dinner principle. But if the answer is that in a tense situation, the government has wide discrecion to cut folks down or damage property, well, that's one way to approach things. 

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8839 on: September 09, 2020, 02:45:56 PM »
where does line belong in civilly disobey?

I didn't see the video, but it's possible someone threw something or yelled something threatening or some other not quite so civil action
I saw the video, no evidence for anything being thrown.

Cincydawg

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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8841 on: September 09, 2020, 02:49:11 PM »
Once there was a brawl outside my apartment that drew police helicopters and swarms of cops armed with shot guns. At one point the helicopter lowered itself down to my porch, and ordered me inside. I went in, and watched from the window.

So you did what the government ordered you to do? That's nice. 

I mean, it's still silly the government ordered you to. And would be bad if the government followed up by launching stuff at your patio to drive you inside. 

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8842 on: September 09, 2020, 02:49:26 PM »
So, there was an 8 PM curfew and this happened at 9:30 PM.  Did the curfew include people on their porch doing nothing?

If so, it was idiotic, and these officers/troops took their orders rather literally.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8843 on: September 09, 2020, 02:50:36 PM »
This seems like it would incentivize police to explain that every situation they're in is a high stress one, so all of their actions that infringe on folks' rights are fully just, unless it's in super specific circumstances.

Even if you say you're not a huge pro police guy, what you've said above is the government should have pretty wide discretion to inflict violence on its citizenry. I tend to think that should be relatively narrow. It's hard to make that happen because of the home for dinner principle. But if the answer is that in a tense situation, the government has wide discrecion to cut folks down or damage property, well, that's one way to approach things.
It also inspires the mediots to paint violent criminals as "hands up, don't shoot!"
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SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8844 on: September 09, 2020, 02:53:32 PM »
I wouldn't want to be the attorney defending the government authorities in that that video.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8845 on: September 09, 2020, 02:56:45 PM »
I wouldn't want to be the attorney defending the government authorities in that that video.
Nor I, but there was a curfew.  My GUESS is the NG troops were told to clear the street and they thought that included people sitting on their porch and acted .... unreasonably.  The troops at times can get a feeling of power and authority and behave ... on that basis.

They ordered the folks inside and when they did not comply used nonlethal means, which was in my view an over reaction.

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8846 on: September 09, 2020, 03:04:45 PM »
Nor I, but there was a curfew.  My GUESS is the NG troops were told to clear the street and they thought that included people sitting on their porch and acted .... unreasonably.  The troops at times can get a feeling of power and authority and behave ... on that basis.

They ordered the folks inside and when they did not comply used nonlethal means, which was in my view an over reaction.
That's how it went down here in Kenosha. We were not allowed to be outside of our home, which in our case is our marina.

Were we to take one step outside of our gate, which is still marina property (and our home), we'd have been in violation of the curfew and subject to arrest.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8847 on: September 09, 2020, 03:15:43 PM »
Nor I, but there was a curfew.  My GUESS is the NG troops were told to clear the street and they thought that included people sitting on their porch and acted .... unreasonably.  The troops at times can get a feeling of power and authority and behave ... on that basis.

They ordered the folks inside and when they did not comply used nonlethal means, which was in my view an over reaction.
this at times includes all folks with authority, especially if they are not accountable for their actions
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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