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Topic: Misfits Thread

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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7574 on: August 29, 2020, 05:30:01 PM »
With most politicians, I care most about policy. Because I believe that most people who enter the office of the Presidency are remade by the enormous gravity of the office.

On policy, I preferred McCain/Romney to Obama. On policy, I preferred Bush/Dole to Clinton. But I believe that Obama and Clinton both were sincerely awed by the power of the office they held and tried to faithfully discharge the demands of that office. I believe they put America first, regardless of the fact that I had policy disagreements with them.

With Trump, I don't think that he puts America first. I think he puts Trump first. His tax "cut" was part of that. The limitation on SALT deductions was intended not because he thought those deductions were bad, but because he knew that they would punish blue states that didn't vote for him. I think he is profoundly horrible person and is unfit due to poor character for the office that he holds. I could agree with him 100% on policy and that would still be true.

I don't like "lesser of two evils" voting, but when the difference between the two evils is so significant, I'm Ridin' with Biden.
ok because a tax cut might help him personally we should not have had one

the blue states have nothing but themselves to blame for their greed and complete disregard for their citizens

all you haters better buckle up cause you will be very sad in a few months

I dont think Biden will carry even his own state
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7575 on: August 29, 2020, 05:36:11 PM »
320: Where have you been for the last 4 years?
Do you not know that there have been six of Trump's very close associates convicted of felonies, mostly for things they did in service to him?  (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-associates-prison-faced-criminal-charges/story?id=68358219)
Did you not follow his attempts to get Ukraine to "produce" some dirt on Biden under penalty of losing the air defense weapons we had previously agreed to provide? (https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/15/trump-resisted-ukraine-sale-javelin-antitank-missile/)
Have you not heard of his retweets of racist/alt-right/Holocaust-denier tweets?
(https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-retweets-right-wing-activist-associated-with-white-nationalist-group-1.8852355)
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42166663)
(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/04/trump-retweets-conspiracy-theorists-far-right-figures-after-facebook-bans.html)
(https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-retweets-infowars-and-a-far-right-personality-2019-5)
What's your point about Obama?  I asked you if someone spoke of Obama in the same worshipful, see-no-evil tones that many Trump supporters use when describing their guy, what you would think, and you responded with a rhetorical question.
You know, I've asked you flat out more than once if you would like a dictator in the White House as long as the dictator was someone like Trump.  You have not responded to that question.  May I assume that your answer is "yes"?
we dont have a dictator in the WH and you continue to tell me why you think otherwise

if youre talking about Russisgate just wait and you will see real justice in the next few months

Obama was the mastermind of Russiagate thats my point

look you feel your way and I feel mine Im done
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7576 on: August 29, 2020, 05:50:05 PM »
we dont have a dictator in the WH and you continue to tell me why you think otherwise
This is fair, as he's only a wannabe dictator, for now.
if youre talking about Russisgate just wait and you will see real justice in the next few months

Obama was the mastermind of Russiagate thats my point
...and here's where you go off the rails.
look you feel your way and I feel mine Im done
I hope good things for you, I really do.  I will celebrate with you, the moment you beat your dementia.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7577 on: August 29, 2020, 05:54:58 PM »
ok what has he done to make you think he wants to be a dictator?

Let's see... His "joke" after meeting the Chinese President about being President for Life of "Maybe we'll give that a shot"
"Maybe we'll give that a shot", coupled with the NUMEROUS times he's "joked"--or perhaps not--about seeking a third or fourth term. His statement that the President has total authority over governors when it comes to reopening their states. Maybe it's his refusal to admit he'd actually accept the outcome of a Democratic election
his refusal to admit he'd actually accept the outcome of a Democratic election if he loses. Maybe it's declaring critical media to be the "enemy of the people". 

Or maybe it's just the way that he treats anyone who disagrees with him, ever. They cannot ever simply be "wrong", they are evil and the enemy. 


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what boarder line often illegal stuff are you talking about?
Oh, deliberately delaying Congressionally-authorized military aid to the Ukraine out of an desire to extort them into benefitting his 2020 electoral campaign. Taking funds earmarked for other things to build his wall because Congress [and apparently Mexico] wouldn't pay for it. Maybe violating New York law by misusing charitable funds for self-promotion in campaign matters? 

I mean, that's a start. When the investigators in New York actually get their subpoena served for some tax records, there are probably a bunch of unknown financial crimes they'll uncover. But those are mostly prior to him becoming President. 


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what racist white nationalist crap has he tweeted?
Trump retweeted a video where one of his supporters was chanting "white power"
retweeted a video where one of his supporters was chanting "white power". White House said he "didn't see it"... 

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you have a lot of built up animosity CW just take a deep breath and tell me what you are talking about

Primarily that Trump's reputation as a wannabe dictator and/or "President for Life" who plays fast and loose with [i.e. ignores] the law is well-founded. 

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7578 on: August 29, 2020, 05:59:49 PM »
we dont have a dictator in the WH and you continue to tell me why you think otherwise

if youre talking about Russisgate just wait and you will see real justice in the next few months

Obama was the mastermind of Russiagate thats my point

look you feel your way and I feel mine Im done
So, you asked me for facts.  I provided links to the facts.  You didn't look at them.  You respond to them by reiterating your previous points with no facts provided.  And now you're "done."
Great.  Thanks for the discussion.
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7579 on: August 29, 2020, 06:03:57 PM »
So, you asked me for facts.  I provided links to the facts.  You didn't look at them.  You respond to them by reiterating your previous points with no facts provided.  And now you're "done."
Great.  Thanks for the discussion.
yep you win I lose
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7580 on: August 29, 2020, 06:05:54 PM »
ok because a tax cut might help him personally we should not have had one

the blue states have nothing but themselves to blame for their greed and complete disregard for their citizens

all you haters better buckle up cause you will be very sad in a few months

I dont think Biden will carry even his own state
Oh, trust me, I'm pretty much ALWAYS in favor of tax cuts. I'm a freakin' libertarian. Taxes are theft, bro!

The SALT limits should give you an idea into his mindset. He wanted to cut taxes on the states that voted for him, and screw those who didn't. The SALT limits costs me over a thousand dollars a year in my federal tax burden. The limitation on mortgage interest deduction was intended to punish people who live where the cost of living is highest (i.e. blue states) by limiting deductions. 

I believe 100% that the tax "cut" was designed to be punitive to blue states. That was a feature in the plan, not a bug. Because that's Trump. We didn't vote for him, so he wants to hurt us. 

Quite literally, Trump is that easy to read. If you are nice to him, he rewards you. If you are mean to him, he wants to cause you pain in any possible way he can. 

I personally expect better from the leader of the free world.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7581 on: August 29, 2020, 06:11:08 PM »
I hope good things for you, I really do.  I will celebrate with you, the moment you beat your dementia. 
Says the moronic child of this board. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7582 on: August 29, 2020, 06:13:06 PM »
The Bulwark
The Triad
Three things to read from JVL

1. Double Standards
One of the arguments you often hear from apologists for the police goes like this:

"Sure, the cops shouldn't have done that, but if the guy had simply done what he was told by the police it never would have happened."

The idea is that however disproportionate or unlawful the actions of a police officer might be, citizens should expect that not immediately and submissively complying with a directive from a cop will result in beating, arrest, or death. Because that's just the way things are.

The nice version of this argument is that police are constantly concerned for their own safety and so we should expect them to be on a hair trigger in every situation. Even if they outnumber the citizen. Even if they have firearms and the citizen is not brandishing a weapon. They have to use overwhelming force because if they tell a protestor to leave a public place and the fellow doesn't do so immediately, then he might pull a bazooka out of his pocket or something.

I would like to believe this nice version, because it would suggest that police who abuse their authority do so purely out of rational fear for their own safety.

But there's a passage from a story in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel about the night of August 25, when a militia member shot three people and killed two:
 

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Journal-Sentinel reporter earlier in the evening observed a group of armed men with long guns standing guard at a dry cleaning business on Sheridan Road near 59th Street, some on the roof.
Police told them to get off the roof and a person shouted back: "Officer, this is our business." Police did not ultimately order them off the roof.

So much for "comply with any police order immediately or you get what's coming to you."

I am not saying that the cops should have shot the guys on the roof. Maybe the guys with long guns on the roof really were on their own private property. Maybe they engaged in a polite, civil dialogue with the police. Maybe the police deescalated a potentially dangerous situation without resorting to force. If so, that's great! That's their job!

However, this is just one more data point demonstrating that police behave differently when they are faced with citizens who are obviously armed and dangerous than they do when they face citizens who they only suspect might be armed. If you're an unarmed guy on a public street and you don't move the exact second an officer tells you to, then you get this, or this, or this, or this.

If you are part of a group armed with guns and the police tell you to do something, you get this, or this, or this. Or the police order you to get off a roof with your rifles and instead of getting shot for not immediately complying, you have a productive conversation which ends with the police moving along while you get your way.

I mean, it's either that or race has something to do with it. It's a mystery.

A Note on Police Reform
A couple weeks ago I got a long, thoughtful email from a law man explaining that when we talk about "police reform" we're reducing to shorthand a subject that is incredibly complicated. I want to share his thoughts with you, but he asked me to keep his name out of it, so we'll just call him Jonah Hex:
 

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I am a peace officer who was in uniformed patrol for the last twelve years before transitioning to a weird, specialty law enforcement job (at a great time, too!) that has given me time to reflect upon patrol work. It’s like waking up slowly from a strange dream.

There is a widespread assumption that police administrators would fire incompetent officers if not for the powerful police unions. This is . . . an incomplete picture at best. It’s almost impossible to generalize about policing in America. In California, where I work, police officers make a good middle-class income. I have a friend who worked for New Orleans PD who told me they started at $17/hr, and he knew cops who were single moms who were on food stamps. In the same way, police unions have a wide range of sway over police administrators in different parts of the country.

There are incentives for police administrators to retain incompetent officers that have nothing to do with unions. A police department is a hungry beast that needs to be fed cops regularly. When economic times are good, no one wants to be a police officer. There is better money to be made without the lifestyle downsides that come with police work. Inevitably, departments start to drop well below their “minimum” staffing. In my area, many departments are 25-30% below minimum. I know of one big-city division that used to staff 9 officers on patrol. The minimum staffing was revised down to 6 due to the general lack of cops. When people are sick or on vacation, they will go as low as 4. Needless to say, their response time isn’t stellar.

I saw this dynamic play out during my career. When I was hired, shortly before the mortgage meltdown, people thought I was crazy to go into policing. I was able to land a job with my preferred agency, but I would have been able to get a position elsewhere. My agency paid my way through the academy and supplied all of my equipment. While there weren’t as many candidates due to the good economy, my agency was still able to be choosy as it was nearly fully staffed.

Once the Great Recession hit, there was a sudden interest in policing. My agency had its pick of candidates who had put themselves through the academy. The overall quality of candidates improved. When the rare lemon was hired, I witnessed unsuitable trainees getting fired during training for poor performance.

The latest economic boom coincided with a shortage of officers due to a previous hiring freeze. The quality and depth of the applicant pool was greatly diminished, and we were in the midst of a large wave of retirements.

By this point, I was a training officer. I saw my recommendations to remove unsuitable trainees for performance that had been unacceptable to that point ignored. The attitude of the command was that—barring any illegal behavior—trainees could be “fixed” later. This proved overly optimistic. It is very difficult to fix poor character or decision making.

I understand the administration’s quandary. They need cops. It takes about 9 months from the time of a retirement until a trainee is in the academy. Our academy is 6 months. My agency had an extra-long, nearly 6 month field-training phase. So after almost 2 years, to be told the appropriately $100,000 spent on hiring and training this person-who you hand picked was all for naught? That is a bitter pill to swallow. The sunk-cost fallacy is overwhelming at that point.

All of this goes back to what I wrote at the beginning of this movement following the killing of George Floyd: We have a number of overlapping problems and solving them requires identifying them, disentangling them, addressing them individually.

One more note of interest from Jonah Hex:
 

Quote
COVID has had an impact in cop world. The Officer Down Memorial Page tracks line-of-duty deaths. I often used it with my trainees to show them that cars were as dangerous as guns to cops. Here is the current year page: https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2020.

There are currently 82 COVID deaths listed. Last I checked, there were no NYPD deaths listed, but about 30 NYPD cops have died from COVID. These are duty related. I know of two Riverside County, CA deputies who died of COVID the same week. Only one was duty related, and that is the only one listed on ODMP. For perspective, 145 officers died in 2019. If you take 5/12 of that (equal to the pandemic so far) that is about 60. COVID has far more than doubled the risk of being a cop.

Given the impact on older officers, I predict a lot of extra retirements this year. When policing is slightly less popular than a violent bout of food poisoning, I don’t see a lot of volunteers to take their places.


The idea that COVID could kill more officers in the line of duty this year than all other causes of death is pretty striking.

Also striking: After this year, think about the kind of people who would really want to become cops. I can think of two general types: Those who want to fix law enforcement and those who like what they've seen.

I suspect the latter group might be larger than the former.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7583 on: August 29, 2020, 06:13:26 PM »
My GUESS is the tax cut plan was hatched pretty much entirely in Congress.  I'm not sure Trump even knew what was in it when he signed it.  I could be wrong.

The standard deduction went way up to offset part of the SALT deduction limitation.  

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7584 on: August 29, 2020, 06:14:52 PM »
Don’t worry 320. I may not be a fan of Trump but I can see right through the bullshit they’re feeding you.

Who refused to except the results of the last election? LOL and who still refuses to except it.

And who is saying let’s not go do the debates? And who is saying we shouldn’t except results if Trump wins?

And he’s talking about trying to get Ukraine to do something? Who do we have on tape bragging about extortion against Ukraine? Hint his name rhymes with Lye-den. Same guy who son is getting paid lots of money to be an absentee in a Chinese corporation

Now if you’ll excuse me I have to go back to watching the video I was watching of a black man physically assaulting to traffic agents in New York, who were unarmed, because they asked him to move his car away from a fire hydrant. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7585 on: August 29, 2020, 06:21:47 PM »
My GUESS is the tax cut plan was hatched pretty much entirely in Congress.  I'm not sure Trump even knew what was in it when he signed it.  I could be wrong.

The standard deduction went way up to offset part of the SALT deduction limitation.
My guess is that Donald Trump cannot understand a Form 1040, much less tax policy.  He pays people to think about complicated things for him and then fires them when his gut doesn't like what they have told him.
I'm sorry--I misspoke there.  He doesn't fire anyone.  He doesn't have the cojones for that, just as he doesn't have the cojones to stand up to Putin or Xi or even Kim.  He gets his surrogates to trash them in the mainstream media, on Fox News, and on Twitter.  Then he tweets that "people are saying . . . ."  Eventually, they quit.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7586 on: August 29, 2020, 06:23:32 PM »
I gather CWS is not a big Trump fan, but I could be wrong.

Neither am I.  

Anyway, back to discussing football and other apolitical topics, like special relativity.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7587 on: August 29, 2020, 06:34:31 PM »
My GUESS is the tax cut plan was hatched pretty much entirely in Congress.  I'm not sure Trump even knew what was in it when he signed it.  I could be wrong.

The standard deduction went way up to offset part of the SALT deduction limitation. 
Trump's a buffoon, but he's a buffoon who knows the difference between hurting "his" people and hurting the others.

Again, the Republican party wanted a tax cut for the rich. They needed a way to cut down the total price tag, and what better than to screw blue state folks? 

And remember, while SALT doesn't require itemization, mortgage interest is itemized. Raising the standard deduction helps those in red states whose property values are low enough that they still can't itemize by giving them a bigger deduction. At the same time, limiting the mortgage interest deduction based on housing value makes it such that the people who would still be able to itemize beyond the raised standard deduction lose a huge portion of that advantage. 

And again, the SALT deduction limit is particularly pernicious. Yes, here in California we know our taxes are high. But the Trump tax plan basically says I'm taxed on income I never received because the state of California took it. I'm not a homeowner [currently], so I don't even have the option of deducting property taxes. It's purely CA income taxes. Last year the federal government taxed me on almost $5000 that the state of California took from me. So I was taxed on money I didn't receive. 

 

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