header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread

 (Read 144857 times)

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7849
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2212 on: March 15, 2019, 02:47:30 PM »
2005 Drew Neitzel 2.0?

This is the exact same thing that happened with Neitzel.  Disappointing freshman year coming of Mr. Basketball, then suddenly exploded in the postseason to extend Izzo's bench, and his career took off from there
I hope not. That kid was a damn nightmare as a junior. 

TyphonInc

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1929
  • Easily Amused
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2213 on: March 15, 2019, 02:49:43 PM »
MSU is good. 

Wesson has a legit gripe about some of those fouls. (But he doesn't help his cause when he is throwing elbows.)

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2214 on: March 15, 2019, 03:05:26 PM »
That first sentence is correct, and should probably be the board slogan.
I love it!
"I get where you are coming from and I don't think we are THAT far apart."

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2215 on: March 15, 2019, 03:07:25 PM »
25% of the 1st and 2nd round games will be played in either MDT or PDT.  I don't think that's all that excessive.  
I get the point you're trying to make though, and yes, a relatively small percentage of D1 basketball is played in those two time zones, and yes, it sucks that 4 and 5 seeds have to travel well over 1,000 miles to play rinky-dink California schools in what basically amounts to being their own back yards, but honestly, there are high schools in Texas that have larger followings than said rinky-dink west coast schools, so at worst it'd be a true neutral court.  I believe only 3 seeds and higher are offered any sort of geographical "protection" (i.e. either staying in their own region or time zone), and any geographical proximity for lower seeds would be purely coincidental.
And geography is virtually a non-factor when upsets happen in March Madness.  Nine times out of ten, four seeds eat thirteen seeds for breakfast regardless of locale.  Thirteen seeds occasionally upset four seeds due to hot shooting (or extremely poor shooting by the favorite), taking the favorite out of their comfort zone by playing a different tempo, or simply catching the favorite looking ahead.
It is excessive, massively so.  
As you noted, 25% of the first/second round games are in either MDT (SLC) or PDT (San Jose).  That sounds reasonable until you notice (from my post above) that only three of the top 32 teams (9.4%) are in MDT and PDT.  Worse, two of those three (Nevada and Washington) are only barely in the top-32.  
I don't think that the #4's are specifically excluded from "protection" and I think it is more of a sliding scale than you are thinking.  Lets say, for example, that MSU wins the BTT and ends up with the fourth #1 seed.  The closest first/second round site for the Spartans would be Columbus but even as a #1 seed they wouldn't get Columbus if #1 seeds Kentucky and Virginia were ahead of them and those two got Columbus.  
What I am saying is that I think it is more of a sliding scale.  I think they seed the bracket, then place the pods.  When they place the pods they do it sequentially and place each pod leader (#1-#4 seed) in the best available remaining spot.  Thus, if you are the first #1 seed you get the best possible spot and if you are the last #4 seed you get whatever is left.  
If you want to know where the "extra" locations are, just look at where the #4 seeds went (because they naturally end up with whatever is left).  In Lunardi's projections for this year:
  • #4 Kansas is in Hartford, CT
  • #4 FSU is in SLC
  • #4 Wisconsin is in San Jose
  • #4 KSU is in San Jose
There is your proof that it is excessive.  Three of the four projected #4 seeds are EST/CST teams getting shipped out west to those extra sites.  

Last year's #4 seeds:
  • #4 Arizona was in Boise, ID
  • #4 Wichita State was in San Diego
  • #4 Gonzaga was in Boise, ID
  • #4 Auburn was in San Diego
The two western teams (AZ/Gonzaga) played eastern opponents (Buffalo/UNC-G) in the first round and did or would have played eastern opponents (Kentucky/tOSU) in the second round.  Note that the Western #4 seeds got a huge geographical advantage while the eastern #4 seeds got screwed.  That is because there were too many western sites last year as well.  

Hopefully someday the NCAA will realize that the vast majority of their teams and fans are in the EST Zone.  

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2216 on: March 15, 2019, 03:24:33 PM »
Sooo, writers on the twitters started waving around that bubble team NC State had the worst NC SOS in the whole damn country. This was one of those little nuggets you use in sports arguments for why they shouldn't be in.
Then you look at that schedule and you see the No. 16 and 17 teams in the next rankings. Surely there are schedules without multiple opponents of that caliber. But the reason that happened was basically the reverse of how people used to game RPI.
Basically, RPI or any SOS, everything matters, even in a super unbalanced sport like CBB. So if you schedule a bunch of home games vs teams in the 175 (13-17 Ohio) to 250 range (14-17 Eastern Washington) it kinda lifted things up. NC State seems to have done the opposite.
The Wolfpack managed to play eight opponents between 281-352, which will just murder your schedule. They got struck with a few bits of bad luck and one bit of good luck. Beyond the two good games, this is their schedule:
Penn State, a Q1 win, though you probably don't plan for it to be.
Vandy, a team that added two five-star recruits and a good 4-star and was supposed to be good, but managed to go 9-23
UNC Ashville and Mercer, two consistently solid mid to low majors who won 11 and 4 games
Six sort of irredeemable bad programs that are very bad.
I clearly feel that's not the end of the world. Not a good slate, not a killer. But it seemed to really stick for some people. Wanted to know if others had feelings.
Gotcha. Yeah, I severely dislike the idea of ACC or Big Ten teams being dinged for a 1.000 win% against "too many" Q4 teams. Because for these conferences, Q1/Q2 volume is no object. I should be transparent though and admit I'm sensitized to this argument by the majority of the Beilein era.

John has a (bad) habit of wanting terrible teams on the schedule around Christmas. And before the new committee guidelines (team sheets, RPI v NET, etc.), that bad habit brutalized Michigan's seeding. I don't know the best measurement tool for tracking how underseeded a team is, but I suspect Michigan ranks near the top since 2009. Given their success this decade, Michigan's NCAAT "wins above expected" could be the best in the nation.

My recommendation would be that - for Big Ten/ACC-quality conferences - a 1.000 win% against "too many" Q4 teams should be entirely disregarded in seeding except as a SOS tiebreaker. Again, because these teams will all have sufficiently challenging Q1/Q2 schedules, and that's all the data we'll usually need. Just guessing here, but I'm bullish that Q1/Q2 record is more informative of caliber and predictive of NCAAT success than Q4 quantity.

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20288
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2217 on: March 15, 2019, 03:33:30 PM »
Apparently Winston missed practice this week with a foot injury from the UM game.  So Loyer giving Winston quality minutes off the bench was a necessity not a luxury.

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2218 on: March 15, 2019, 05:38:27 PM »
#1 and #4 have advanced to the semi-finals.  This continues a trend ever since we went to 14 teams of having very few substantial upsets.  

So far this year the only upsets have been:
  • #13 UNL over #12 RU
  • #13 UNL over #5 UMD

Nebraska over Rutgers is not enough of an upset to even notice and Nebraska over Maryland was a bigger deal but had no impact on the semi-finals because Wisconsin took them out.  


bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7849
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2219 on: March 15, 2019, 06:39:33 PM »
 Wisconsin looked like it was going to play well, and then played pretty terribly, and then won anyway. I will take that quadrant 2. win, 23rd overall victory of the year, and enjoy it. 

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2220 on: March 15, 2019, 07:48:47 PM »
For Michigan, starting up next:

(1) I really dislike this Iowa match-up. Garza is a defensive liability versus most teams, but that's not how Michigan attacks, which takes Iowa's biggest weakness off the table.

(2) It's weird having a double bye after the last two years of winning the tourney in 4 games.

(3) I really want to play Purdue again. Not for the extra NCAAT seeding opportunity as much as for general fun. Over the last 10 years, M-PU has been the most fun match-up for me. Especially now. The coaching chess match is more obvious to me in this game than any other Michigan plays, and the way Beilein and Painter talk about each other in every postgame presser is authentic and smiley. Would love to have another dose.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25152
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2221 on: March 15, 2019, 09:04:03 PM »
Wisconsin looked like it was going to play well, and then played pretty terribly, and then won anyway. I will take that quadrant 2. win, 23rd overall victory of the year, and enjoy it.
So.. I had a project coordination meeting today with the head architect on one of my jobs. Shame on me for taking a project with an architect who went to IIT (no sporting interest). Dammit. But, maybe it's good I didn't get to see it. On, Wisconsin!!
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25152
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2222 on: March 15, 2019, 09:05:07 PM »
RAH RAH RAH for SKI U MAH!!
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2223 on: March 15, 2019, 09:09:12 PM »
Well there goes my dream to play Purdue and have a super fun game. UMinn is actually one of my least favorite teams to play. Again, not because of win probability. Just about style and how I feel about their coach.

None of this is to assume a win versus Iowa, of course. About which, still, nervousness and yeesh. 

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37476
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2224 on: March 15, 2019, 09:19:15 PM »
VCU goes down, A10 just became a 2 bid league
are any of these scripted ?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25152
  • Liked:
Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #2225 on: March 15, 2019, 09:31:34 PM »
Go B1G WEST!!
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.