Has Jeslord Boateng seen any action?No, he's redshirting, and doesn't seem to be on the short list of guys they were going to sneak into <4 games.
What's the weather report for this game? It feels like a complete slog, so we'll see if the weather matches up.Cold, but dry. Temps might be in the upper 20s at kick, but sunny.
Um,no they're not :cheer:Best damn chant in all of sports.
Sparty has the #1 rushing defense, #22 total defense. The Buckeyes have the #3 passing offense. All per NCAA.com stats.S&P+ defense rose from #14 to #7 this week. They haven't done the more extensive breakdowns yet. Last week they were #2 Run Defense S&P+, #40 in Pass D.
I would say, once you accept the idea that your team kind of sucks, and the pressure is off, it is fun to root for them without much in the way of expectations.It's even more fun when your expectations can be raised to the point of being 8-1, ranked #8, in control of your Big Ten championship destiny qualifies as "kind of sucks"
It's even more fun when your expectations can be raised to the point of being 8-1, ranked #8, in control of your Big Ten championship destiny qualifies as "kind of sucks"It's been a wacky season.
Bama envy is causing a lot of OSU fans to disrelish one of the greatest decades in Buckeye history.Oh, overall they've been great. But this is easily one of the Urban's weakest teams, and the weakest since his first year. His first year was super fun, because they had no expectations, went undefeated, and were precluded from the postseason so they didn't have to be whipped on a national stage. The 2014 team was ultra fun, because there were no expectations, and they ended up being extremely good and they were champs.
Go green!
Go White!Close the door please carrion eating skunk weasels are belching forth
Can anyone play football at all in sub-freezing temperatures? I thought they'd just cancel it or move it inside or something.What do you think they're not a bunch of Georgia drivers
OSU switched from a RPO heavy offense to adding more jet sweep action to help the running game. I wonder if they use even less RPO action - Haskins has a noted issue of never wanting to hand off if he has an option to chuck it.good observation. I don't think Ohio State ran many, if any RPO against Nebraska. Everything was a called pass, often off play action, or a called run. The OL had been struggling for the reasons you mentioned.
Kind of interesting - for B1G purposes, UM is all green. But for playoff purposes, seems they should be pro-Buckeye.I dont think it matters. They win out, they are in, they don't, they are out. But at least a Big Ten title and a Rose Bowl are a nice consolation prize in that scenario.
I dont think it matters. They win out, they are in, they don't, they are out. But at least a Big Ten title and a Rose Bowl are a nice consolation prize in that scenario.Most likely, yes. But if Oklahoma wins out and looks good doing it, or Georgia wins the SEC, or even Washington State or UCF win out, Michigan would like to have some nice wins in their pack pocket for argument's sake. If the best win is over a crappy looking 9-3 or 8-4 OSU team, that ain't going to be of much impact for voters. Also, seeding is an issue - getting a three seed would be preferable to a four seed this year if Alabama continues to kill people.
I'd bet on the 2nd worst offense sucking more than the 6th best defense.Not saying that Purdue didn't do it, but it is important to clarify how they did it. Ohio State got plenty of yards against the Boilermakers but just Purdue flat out shut them down in the red zone.
So can the 2nd best defense shut down the best offense? If Purdue can do it, there's hope.
Most likely, yes. But if Oklahoma wins out and looks good doing it, or Georgia wins the SEC, or even Washington State or UCF win out, Michigan would like to have some nice wins in their pack pocket for argument's sake. If the best win is over a crappy looking 9-3 or 8-4 OSU team, that ain't going to be of much impact for voters. Also, seeding is an issue - getting a three seed would be preferable to a four seed this year if Alabama continues to kill people.The seeding point matters, but nobody thinks Michigan controls its own destiny to the #3 seed. That would inevitably require help -- for Clemson or ND to lose. We're just arguing that M controls its destiny to #4.
The seeding point matters, but nobody thinks Michigan controls its own destiny to the #3 seed. That would inevitably require help -- for Clemson or ND to lose. We're just arguing that M controls its destiny to #4.Well, they don't
Well, they don'tI'll call Oklahoma flatly irrelevant if Michigan wins out. Maybe Alabama+Georgia *could* finish above if UGa wins out, but only to the extent that neither Michigan nor UGa technically controls its own fate.
Actually on checking their schedules I'm not sure Michigan wants an OSU victory. There's a legit shot that OSU is the only ranked team it will have a win over by the end of the season. Is it better to have one win over a top ten type outfit or 3 wins over top 15-25 type outfits? Not sure about that but I'm leaning to the latter.This is an interesting question.
Who will suck less - OSUs defense or MSU's offense?that's the $64,000 question.
A 7-5 Northwestern team that lost by two TD's at home to Dook, at home to Akron, at home to Michigan, at home to Notre Dame, and at Iowa would not be a quality opponent.add to this the fact that Northwestern could give the east champ a helluva close game in Indy
It's unoriginal, but I'm intensely curious of OSU's offensive philosophy. Do they (A) do the far-sighted thing and continue to try to fix the broken run game versus an overwhelming mismatch ... or do they (B) pause that renaissance try to go strength versus weakness and predominantly pass?I think you are dead on here. If Ohio State somehow conjures up an elite running game they'll win easily until THE GAME and even that will be something close to a toss-up. Even a middling running game would make the Buckeyes too much for MSU and UMD and something close to a match for the Wolverines. The thing is, this late in the season, I don't think an elite running game is going to suddenly appear wearing scarlet and gray.
I think Michigan fans should either want B or failure at A. The worst case scenario for Michigan is for OSU to actually remember how to have an elite run game.
I think you are dead on here. If Ohio State somehow conjures up an elite running game they'll win easily until THE GAME and even that will be something close to a toss-up. Even a middling running game would make the Buckeyes too much for MSU and UMD and something close to a match for the Wolverines. The thing is, this late in the season, I don't think an elite running game is going to suddenly appear wearing scarlet and gray.this is how I feel as well. Running game is something that you build through the course of a season. Not something you just magically turn into elite with 3 weeks left to go.
It's unoriginal, but I'm intensely curious of OSU's offensive philosophy. Do they (A) do the far-sighted thing and continue to try to fix the broken run game versus an overwhelming mismatch ... or do they (B) pause that renaissance try to go strength versus weakness and predominantly pass?I think of all the things, an Urban Meyer team not trying to run the ball is extremely unlikely. Not saying they are going to try and pound it against Sparty, but I don't anticipate them abandoning the run game against anyone unless they are down by a big score.
I think Michigan fans should either want B or failure at A. The worst case scenario for Michigan is for OSU to actually remember how to have an elite run game.
this is how I feel as well. Running game is something that you build through the course of a season. Not something you just magically turn into elite with 3 weeks left to go.I think it will be much improved, but not elite. Sort of like what Michigan did - by sprinkling in some Shea running they greatly improved their rushing attack. OSU can't do that, but they can do some things that make it much harder to defend the run game, and they showed some against Nebraska.
I think it will be much improved, but not elite. Sort of like what Michigan did - by sprinkling in some Shea running they greatly improved their rushing attack. OSU can't do that, but they can do some things that make it much harder to defend the run game, and they showed some against Nebraska.I think the combination of Ed Warriner and Shea's threat as a runner has really opened up the M rushing attack greatly.
Georgia definitely controls its own destiny. If they win out they are in and the question is if Alabama drops out. I certainly wouldn't call Oklahoma irrelevant. If they have a stretch like Michigan just had they are right in the conversation, plus they end with likely two games against West Virginia. That's why I'm sayung Michigan would probably want a good looking OSU team on its resume, which in margin of victory is strong but in quality of opponent is very not strong.I'm not convinced a 1-loss UGa would pass Michigan. And I suspect the odds of OU doing it are significantly more scarce.
this is how I feel as well. Running game is something that you build through the course of a season. Not something you just magically turn into elite with 3 weeks left to go.If I didn't have so much respect for that roster and Urban's offensive chops, I'd say the same.
I think of all the things, an Urban Meyer team not trying to run the ball is extremely unlikely. Not saying they are going to try and pound it against Sparty, but I don't anticipate them abandoning the run game against anyone unless they are down by a big score.To clarify: I was not talking about quitting the run outright. I was distinguishing between (A) trying until it works (no matter what) and (B) trying just enough to say you did then going trough the air to win.
But still, the line is pretty average run blocking and I don't expect that to change. They get their yards mostly by chucking it, and that will continue. If the defense could sort itself out, they could have something. But that seems like a pretty dreamy wish.
I think it will be much improved, but not elite. Sort of like what Michigan did - by sprinkling in some Shea running they greatly improved their rushing attack. OSU can't do thatHaskins having Navarre-like mobility is a complication, but of course OSU can still do the read-option run game if they play Tate Martell. In the red zone, for example.
(...) but they can do some things that make it much harder to defend the run game, and they showed some against Nebraska.They did. Of course, UNL is 92nd in S&P+ run D. Which confounds an easy interpretation. For transparency, I think you could be right. I just think it's premature to conclude it.
A comment about all of this "Urban has never successfully done the pocket passer thing" debate. That's obvious hogwash, right? Anyone remember Chris Leak?Leak was mobile enough, he wasn't a pocket statue like Brantley or Haskins. Urban also sprinkled in a lot of packages that featured Tebow both rushing and throwing in 2006. Especially on short yardage and red zone situations. Tebow scored 14 total TD's passing and rushing that year.
Of course, that would seem to further argue for young Tate Martell packages in the red zone (just as Leak had with TrFr Tebow)
I was ready to chalk up the Purdue game to "one of those things" against an improving Purdue team. But, after the Nebraska game, I revised my revisions. I don't think OSU is very good. They might be an OK team, one with a lot of apparent talent, but they are not an upper echelon team in my view.(https://vevmo.com/sites/default/files/upload/take-that-back-now.jpg) (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi8xtOm4MDeAhWE21MKHc2vDkMQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvevmo.com%2Fimage%2Ftake-back-nowjpg&psig=AOvVaw3UY8NKmiDHyu-eaE_DySAm&ust=1541627543991473)
This of course means they will beat Michigan.
I suppose any odds greater than 0.00 are incompatible with "controlling one's fate," in which case neither M, nor the Bama/Bulldog loser, nor OU controls its fate. Which means I have to technically agree with you despite disagreeing in spirit.FWIW: When I use the term "controls their own destiny" this is the definition that I am almost always using (I try to point it out if I am using some other definition). Thus, when I said a few weeks ago that I was not certain that Michigan controlled their own destiny I meant that I thought there was a non-zero chance that a 12-1 B1G Champion Michigan team *COULD* potentially be left out of the playoff because:
FWIW: When I use the term "controls their own destiny" this is the definition that I am almost always using (I try to point it out if I am using some other definition). Thus, when I said a few weeks ago that I was not certain that Michigan controlled their own destiny I meant that I thought there was a non-zero chance that a 12-1 B1G Champion Michigan team *COULD* potentially be left out of the playoff because:Don't see it.
- An undefeated Bama would be ahead of them.
- An undefeated Clemson would be ahead of them.
- An undefeated Notre Dame would be ahead of them.
- A one-loss SEC Champion UGA would be ahead of them.
- A one-loss non-Champion Bama *MIGHT* be ahead of them.
- A one-loss B12 Champion OU *Might* be ahead of them.
FWIW: When I use the term "controls their own destiny" this is the definition that I am almost always using (I try to point it out if I am using some other definition). Thus, when I said a few weeks ago that I was not certain that Michigan controlled their own destiny I meant that I thought there was a non-zero chance that a 12-1 B1G Champion Michigan team *COULD* potentially be left out of the playoff because:And so long as we specify that, under this rigorous definition, fewer than 4 teams control their destiny for a 4-team playoff, I'm good with the claim that Michigan doesn't control its.
- An undefeated Bama would be ahead of them.
- An undefeated Clemson would be ahead of them.
- An undefeated Notre Dame would be ahead of them.
- A one-loss SEC Champion UGA would be ahead of them.
- A one-loss non-Champion Bama *MIGHT* be ahead of them.
- A one-loss B12 Champion OU *Might* be ahead of them.
I don't think we are confusing these concepts. I just think we favor different stringencies. I think there's a 99+% chance that M is in if it wins out. By practical definition, that's controlling one's destiny. Yours is more mathematically rigorous, which I respect logically but find less useful.I mean by probability, it is unlikely that all these teams win out. It is unlikely Georgia beats alabama, they and Notre Dame otherwise win out. If that does happen, Michigan is probably out. Is the chance of that happening over 1 percent? Probably.
I mean by probability, it is unlikely that all these teams win out. It is unlikely Georgia beats alabama, they and Notre Dame otherwise win out. If that does happen, Michigan is probably out. Is the chance of that happening over 1 percent? Probably.Nah.If Michigan wins out, they are in. Big if. That Ohio State is in Columbus. That's a huge hurdle they have to overcome.
Other scenarios that oklahoma looks great, Michigan doesn't, and Michigan's opponents crap themselves down the stretch. Also hardly outside the realm of possibility.
So yes, definitely think it's overstating the case to say Michigan when there are very real circumstances that would keep them out.
Wishful thinking. The problem is Michigan's best win is basically what Alabama has done in every game. It's hard to envision the committee leaving them out.Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State will all more than likely finish the regular season ranked in the Top 25. Michigan also played a top 4 ND team in a very close game on the road, at night, to open the season.
Yeah, Michigan's SOS is far superior to Bama's. If Bama loses once, they may well fall behind Michigan.wut
Haskins having Navarre-like mobility is a complication, but of course OSU can still do the read-option run game if they play Tate Martell. In the red zone, for example.They did. Of course, UNL is 92nd in S&P+ run D. Which confounds an easy interpretation. For transparency, I think you could be right. I just think it's premature to conclude it.Oh, I don't expect some monstrous run game all of a sudden. However, they were mostly trotting out last year's run playbook, along with some RPO's, and that wasn't working without a rushing quarterback who always wants to throw. So they moved to some newer stuff that is more in line with having a dropback quarterback, and they were improved. In any event, the offense hasn't been an issue - they are 3rd by S&p+ and have only had one game where they gained fewer than 480 yards.
wutTo-date, Michigan has played a better group of teams than Alabama. Full stop.
Oh, I don't expect some monstrous run game all of a sudden. However, they were mostly trotting out last year's run playbook, along with some RPO's, and that wasn't working without a rushing quarterback who always wants to throw. So they moved to some newer stuff that is more in line with having a dropback quarterback, and they were improved. In any event, the offense hasn't been an issue - they are 3rd by S&p+ and have only had one game where they gained fewer than 480 yards.Michigan doesn't want OSU to figure it out to a 2014ish level. Of the options Michigan wants, where OSU does not figure out the run game, I'd bet that abandoning RPOs for a traditional run game is even better for M.
To-date, Michigan has played a better group of teams than Alabama. Full stop.Ah, ok, sure. But Bama finishes with a much tougher schedule than Michigan, which was what puzzled me about your comment. It is very unlikely that Michigan will have any sort of SOS argument at the end of the season.
Was surprised to see so much chatter about the OSU MSU game, only to be disappointed that it's a "Is M*ch worthy of a playoff spot?" thread.Which has not helped MSU in a long time in this series.
I think Dantonio is an excellent coach, I think he will have MSU off the charts motivated, and it's at East Lansing.
Which has not helped MSU in a long time in this series.True~ish. Hasn't Medina showed several times that the better team won regardless of location. OSU has more Recruiting Stars, not sure that translates into a better team. And OSU crapped the bed on it's last road game.
True~ish. Hasn't Medina showed several times that the better team won regardless of location. OSU has more Recruiting Stars, not sure that translates into a better team. And OSU crapped the bed on it's last road game.Right, that home field isn't a disadvantage, it's just irrelevant.
If this was in Columbus I'd prolly take OSU -7. In East Lansing, I don't know, we could have a Purdue Part Duex.
True~ish. Hasn't Medina showed several times that the better team won regardless of location.It was really more ELA than me but here it is: From 2008 through 2017 the Buckeyes and Spartans have played eight times in ten years. They did not play in 2009 and 2010. They were not scheduled to play in 2013 but met in the B1GCG. In those eight games:
Ah, ok, sure. But Bama finishes with a much tougher schedule than Michigan, which was what puzzled me about your comment. It is very unlikely that Michigan will have any sort of SOS argument at the end of the season.I don't agree that Bama's SOS will inevitably be better. Since this is only relevant if Bama loses and Michigan wins out, let's review it like that:
ND is the key. If they lose, things obviously open up for OU and a one loss Bama team.Ditto Clemson. Neither the Irish nor the Tigers get in with 1 loss unless there's chaos before the final vote.
True~ish. Hasn't Medina showed several times that the better team won regardless of location. OSU has more Recruiting Stars, not sure that translates into a better team. And OSU crapped the bed on it's last road game.I agree with this. It's entirely possible that MSU is better than OSU. I don't believe that, but there are weirdly many unknowns this late in the Big Ten season, so the "margin of error" is high.
If this was in Columbus I'd prolly take OSU -7. In East Lansing, I don't know, we could have a Purdue Part Duex.
Sounds like Ian Book is out for ND this weekI put it in the playoff thread. Granted this thread has steered so far off topic from the game, why not
I put it in the playoff thread. Granted this thread has steered so far off topic from the game, why notIt's kind of like the World Cup group stage, where you have one eye on your own game and the other eye on everything else.
***BIG TEN GAME OF THE WEEK*** |
#10 Ohio State Buckeyes (5-1, 8-1) at #18 Michigan State Spartans (4-2, 6-3) |
NOON - East Lansing, MI - FOX |
2004. Aside from the weird 2011 season that was the last time Ohio State lost multiple Big Ten games in the same season. Also, again 2011 aside, that was the last time Ohio State went into Michigan week playing for nothing but pride. To keep both of those streaks alive, Ohio State needs to find itself. On one hand, that tells you just how high the bar is for this program right now, that a team sitting in the top 10, at 8-1, still in control of their own destiny for a Big Ten title, has its fans concerned. On the other, how can a program that is jockying with Clemson for most talent outside of Tuscaloosa be getting blown out by Purdue, and locked in a fight with a 2-7 Nebraska team? Both of these programs pride themselves on their ability to run the ball and stop the run. Michigan State leads the nation in run defense, and Ohio State has been fine enough there. But neither team can run the ball. The Buckeyes sit 8th in the Big Ten averaging 4.0 ypc, and the Spartans are down at 12th with 3.6. Will either team be even competent on the ground, and how long will they try to force it. The difference is that the Buckeyes haven't minded relying on their passing attack, putting up 368.8 ypg against Big Ten opposition, tops in the conference, and on the season, third nationally. When you look at the most prolific passing offenses in the country, seeing Mike Leach and Kliff Kingsbury 1-2 is expected, but Urban Meyer #3? Give him credit for adjusting to fit his personnel. Dwayne Haskins has already thrown the ball at least 30 times in 7 of Ohio State's 9 games, and at least 38 times in 5 games. J.T. Barrett attempted 38 or more passes 3 times in his entire career. Michigan State is certainly more suseptible to the pass than the run, but their pass rush and coverage has improved leaps and bounds over where in was in September. In conference play the Spartans have held opponents to 6.3 ypa, 5th best in the Big Ten, and have recorded the third most sacks. Their adjusted sack rate on the year is still lower than you'd expect, but what they've excelled at is getting pressure with just their line, allowing their linebackers to play more in coverage, which they've done a better job at than most past units, when Narduzzi was a pretty strong believer in staying in your base defense. That jives with Michigan State ranking much higher in standard downs sack rate than passing downs sack rate. It's against the run though where those front four truly dominate. Michigan State ranks #1 or #2 nationally in 4 of the 6 metrics that Bill Connolly uses to judge defensive line success against the run. But while Ohio State has slogged few the past couple weeks, it's been against teams that, despite other weaknesses, could throw the ball on them. Minnesota, Purdue and Nebraska have the three highest yards per attempt in the conference aside from Ohio State. Michigan State's 5.8 ypa sits above only Rutgers. Brian Lewerke is celarly not healthy yet, but the staff thought he was close enough to give him the start against Maryland. I don't think anybody but Dantonio and offensive coordinator Dave Warner thought he looked healthy enough to go. Rocky Lombardi showed a lot against Purdue, but he got first team reps all week. When he came in against Maryland, he looked like a backup. So while Michigan State may like Option B if Lewerke is still hurt, I'm not sure Lombardi is a guy right now who looks the same coming off the bench as he does getting the start. So for all of the shakiness of the Ohio State back seven, it's unclear whether Michigan State, with a beat up Lewerke, missing Felton Davis, and playing Cody White with a cast on his hand, can do what Minnesota, Purdue and Nebraska did against it. But can Ohio State put up big numbers on Michigan State if the Spartans force them to be one dimensional. They tried that against Purdue, and while they moved up and down the field between the 20s, they slogged down in the red zone. That has to be Michigan State's strategy as well. Let the 4 up front hold their own, and don't get beat deep. Once it becomes a phone booth fight and you can negate Ohio State's athletic advantage, it's a fair fight. Purdue is good at that, their defense has the third best touchdown prevention rate in the red zone. Michigan State is one of two schools even better. Ohio State is more talented than they've shown, and every inch of me seems to think they'll have enough when they need it. That was my argument in picking them to go into West Lafayette and win, when every sign pointed to Purdue. Now I'm waiting for Ohio State to show me something that they haven't shown since gutting out that win in Happy Valley. Win this game, and not only am I a believer, but I think that gives them a ton of momentum with Michigan coming to the Shoe in two weeks. But again, you have to show me first. And I hope not to be proven wrong. |
MICHIGAN STATE 27, OHIO STATE 26 |
Next year in EL let's do it again.Tough season for Sparty injury wise.Tough stretch with dismissing some decent players also.Think they'll turn that corner in the off season.Always good when MSU & UW are tough.Hindsight but MD should have tried running Lombardi a little moreTough to run a lot of option from your own 1. Granted it went horribly, but that call really opens you up for a safety
Halfway nailed it!
***BIG TEN GAME OF THE WEEK*** #10 Ohio State Buckeyes (5-1, 8-1) at #18 Michigan State Spartans (4-2, 6-3) NOON - East Lansing, MI - FOX 2004. Aside from the weird 2011 season that was the last time Ohio State lost multiple Big Ten games in the same season. Also, again 2011 aside, that was the last time Ohio State went into Michigan week playing for nothing but pride. To keep both of those streaks alive, Ohio State needs to find itself. On one hand, that tells you just how high the bar is for this program right now, that a team sitting in the top 10, at 8-1, still in control of their own destiny for a Big Ten title, has its fans concerned. On the other, how can a program that is jockying with Clemson for most talent outside of Tuscaloosa be getting blown out by Purdue, and locked in a fight with a 2-7 Nebraska team? Both of these programs pride themselves on their ability to run the ball and stop the run. Michigan State leads the nation in run defense, and Ohio State has been fine enough there. But neither team can run the ball. The Buckeyes sit 8th in the Big Ten averaging 4.0 ypc, and the Spartans are down at 12th with 3.6. Will either team be even competent on the ground, and how long will they try to force it. The difference is that the Buckeyes haven't minded relying on their passing attack, putting up 368.8 ypg against Big Ten opposition, tops in the conference, and on the season, third nationally. When you look at the most prolific passing offenses in the country, seeing Mike Leach and Kliff Kingsbury 1-2 is expected, but Urban Meyer #3? Give him credit for adjusting to fit his personnel. Dwayne Haskins has already thrown the ball at least 30 times in 7 of Ohio State's 9 games, and at least 38 times in 5 games. J.T. Barrett attempted 38 or more passes 3 times in his entire career. Michigan State is certainly more suseptible to the pass than the run, but their pass rush and coverage has improved leaps and bounds over where in was in September. In conference play the Spartans have held opponents to 6.3 ypa, 5th best in the Big Ten, and have recorded the third most sacks. Their adjusted sack rate on the year is still lower than you'd expect, but what they've excelled at is getting pressure with just their line, allowing their linebackers to play more in coverage, which they've done a better job at than most past units, when Narduzzi was a pretty strong believer in staying in your base defense. That jives with Michigan State ranking much higher in standard downs sack rate than passing downs sack rate. It's against the run though where those front four truly dominate. Michigan State ranks #1 or #2 nationally in 4 of the 6 metrics that Bill Connolly uses to judge defensive line success against the run. But while Ohio State has slogged few the past couple weeks, it's been against teams that, despite other weaknesses, could throw the ball on them. Minnesota, Purdue and Nebraska have the three highest yards per attempt in the conference aside from Ohio State. Michigan State's 5.8 ypa sits above only Rutgers. Brian Lewerke is celarly not healthy yet, but the staff thought he was close enough to give him the start against Maryland. I don't think anybody but Dantonio and offensive coordinator Dave Warner thought he looked healthy enough to go. Rocky Lombardi showed a lot against Purdue, but he got first team reps all week. When he came in against Maryland, he looked like a backup. So while Michigan State may like Option B if Lewerke is still hurt, I'm not sure Lombardi is a guy right now who looks the same coming off the bench as he does getting the start. So for all of the shakiness of the Ohio State back seven, it's unclear whether Michigan State, with a beat up Lewerke, missing Felton Davis, and playing Cody White with a cast on his hand, can do what Minnesota, Purdue and Nebraska did against it. But can Ohio State put up big numbers on Michigan State if the Spartans force them to be one dimensional. They tried that against Purdue, and while they moved up and down the field between the 20s, they slogged down in the red zone. That has to be Michigan State's strategy as well. Let the 4 up front hold their own, and don't get beat deep. Once it becomes a phone booth fight and you can negate Ohio State's athletic advantage, it's a fair fight. Purdue is good at that, their defense has the third best touchdown prevention rate in the red zone. Michigan State is one of two schools even better. Ohio State is more talented than they've shown, and every inch of me seems to think they'll have enough when they need it. That was my argument in picking them to go into West Lafayette and win, when every sign pointed to Purdue. Now I'm waiting for Ohio State to show me something that they haven't shown since gutting out that win in Happy Valley. Win this game, and not only am I a believer, but I think that gives them a ton of momentum with Michigan coming to the Shoe in two weeks. But again, you have to show me first. And I hope not to be proven wrong. MICHIGAN STATE 27, OHIO STATE 26
They [LSU] were severely overranked and their QB/offense flat out sucks.I disagree, they have a heck of a QB down there.
I disagree, they have a heck of a QB down there.This is a funny bit, and I enjoy it.
Burrow is ok, he’s a fighter. He’d prob have Wisconsin at worst 8-2 right now. But he’s not good enough to win a conference title in big or Sec.Burrow is terrible. He completes 50% of his passes. In today’s game that’s like completing 30% in years past.
MSU seemed to give up on fielding punts. Most of them bounced within the 5 yard line. Fielding them -- especially after noticing the great punt/coverage combo pattern!!! -- would have been a game theory win and likely enough to prolong, if not outright prevent, those 2nd half points.I was screaming the opposite at the start. OSU let the 1st 3 MSU punts bounce for an extra 15~ish yards each. I was worried those 50 yards would come back to haunt them.
Burrow is terrible. He completes 50% of his passes. In today’s game that’s like completing 30% in years past.Stepping into a new System/School, Burrow started the season off (1st 3 games) only completing 46% of his passes. The next 5 games his percentage is up to 58% That's pretty remarkable improvement IMHO. (For the Season he is at 54.8%)
Wisconsin’s issues go deeper than the QB. That defense isn’t what it used to be and all of their WR/TE talent from last year is gone.
Burrow wouldn’t have them at any better or worse than Hornibrook.
Stepping into a new System/School, Burrow started the season off (1st 3 games) only completing 46% of his passes. The next 5 games his percentage is up to 58% That's pretty remarkable IMHO. (For the Season he is at 54.8%)He’s not at 58%. And it’s not remarkable.. He’s at 54.8%. And it’s terrible. The way the pass game and the rules are now- under 60 is just awful. Even Tebow and Denard were hitting in the 60%s and their abilities as runners far out exceeded anything Burrow could do.
And while 58% doesn't win you any awards, it's a far cry from terrible.
He’s not at 58%. And it’s not remarkable.. He’s at 54.8%. And it’s terrible. The way the pass game and the rules are now- under 60 is just awful. Even Tebow and Denard were hitting in the 60%s and their abilities as runners far out exceeded anything Burrow could do.You're quaffing hot dog water if you think Denard could throw better than Burrow.He has had clutch drives I don't know which games you watch.LSU had 12 yds rushing vs Bama,Burrow was sacked 5X and hurried about a hundred.LSU hasn't matched up mano-a-mano against Bama for quite some time.In 2016 Burrow was 22-28 with 0 int's and a QB rating of 169.9 and 9.5 yard avg per attempt.Of course 4 of those linemen are playing on Sundays.There was plenty of controversy about JT playing as he was throwing behind and in front of receivers but URBS wanted an RB at QB.He broke his thumb last season and has some pedigree as he threw for over 11,000 yds in High School.But ya he sux if you say so
Burrow just isn’t that good.
Stepping into a new System/School, Burrow started the season off (1st 3 games) only completing 46% of his passes. The next 5 games his percentage is up to 58% That's pretty remarkable improvement IMHO. (For the Season he is at 54.8%)In those five games, he's thrown for four TDs, four picks. His average pass gains 6.9 yards. His average completion gains 11.8. That ain't great. Also worth noting, he's not the first grad transfer, and a lot have done just fine to start the season.
And while 58% doesn't win you any awards, it's a far cry from terrible.
EDIT: And for the record he is half a percentage point better than Lewerke and McSorley...
Burrow is ok, he’s a fighter. He’d prob have Wisconsin at worst 8-2 right now. But he’s not good enough to win a conference title in big or Sec.Might be generous. He might have them 7-3. Maybe if stuff broke right, 8-2. But TBF, one could say the same of Hornibrook. Shoot, if stuff had broken right with Alex, they could be 9-1. But it didn't against BYU, Michigan was a lost cause with how he's playing and NW/PSU are basically who knows because Coan has been very jittery and bad.
You're quaffing hot dog water if you think Denard could throw better than Burrow.He has had clutch drives I don't know which games you watch.LSU had 12 yds rushing vs Bama,Burrow was sacked 5X and hurried about a hundred.LSU hasn't matched up mano-a-mano against Bama for quite some time.In 2016 Burrow was 22-28 with 0 int's and a QB rating of 169.9 and 9.5 yard avg per attempt.Of course 4 of those linemen are playing on Sundays.There was plenty of controversy about JT playing as he was throwing behind and in front of receivers but URBS wanted an RB at QB.He broke his thumb last season and has some pedigree as he threw for over 11,000 yds in High School.But ya he sux if you say soThe bolded part baffles me. He was awesome in garbage time. A year later, the starter put up a a 160 rating playing the actual teams and we only hear about how he missed all the receivers.
be interesting to see how many of his O-Line end up in the Sunday league unlike the behemoths in Madison.I'd take Burrow pre-broken thumbThat group in Madison has been letting QBs get killed all year. LSU's group is young, but the senior was an All-American last year.
Don't even start with garbage time I watched JT look very pedestrian throwing the ball at receivers feet and wide outs stopping to reach back and catch the ball.Burrow lead receivers in stride.JT was surrounded by a lot of Sunday guys especially last year.Yet he doesn't have an arena league offer.Burrow looked better than Barret when surrounded by the same personnel.What you don't know about Ohio State players is baffling.Of course a few years ago you thought John Cooper was a good coachThe closest game those stats came in was 48-3. The best defense of the group was Tulsa or Nebraska.
Last year Barret left the Michigan game down 6 and it should have been more as a M LB dropped a pick that 2 plays later the Bucks scored on.Haskins came in and started threading the needle and the Buckeyes won by 11.When you're surrounded by NFL talent like Barret was for 5 yrs you should put up some numbers.You'd win 6-7 games a year under center,yet JT had no way of getting the ball deep consistently - he simply couldn't stretch the field.For every Penn St game - he had an Iowa game - not what your looking for in a 5th year senior.And I'm fairly certain Burrow has had some problems with that thumb.But this years Ohio St isn't close talent wise to last years or '16sSo this year’s Buckeyes are notably less talented, on offense, in the previous two? Interesting.
OSU fans are a crazy bunch.Can't speak for other OSU crazies, but I loved JT even if I complained about the lack of down field completions.
Lot of them hated on JT Barrett- who only broke every QB passing and rushing record in the B1G and won like 11-12 games a season.
Now lotta of them hate on Dwayne Haskins- a kid with a rocket launcher arm and will be a 1st round pick.
But Joe Burrow is awesome. Lol. Yeeesh.
OSU fans are a crazy bunch.
Lot of them hated on JT Barrett- who only broke every QB passing and rushing record in the B1G and won like 11-12 games a season. What many wanted to see was Urbs change it up in obvious passing downs.He won an NC using 2 QB's,after the Clemson whitewashing we knew what wasn't working.Needed a down field game and there were guys on the roster who could provide.JT wasn't going over the top.Look no further than Saban pulling Hurts who was 26-2 as a starter at the half of the NC game.How'd that work out?
Now lotta of them hate on Dwayne Haskins- a kid with a rocket launcher arm and will be a 1st round pick.
But Joe Burrow is awesome. Lol. Yeeesh.Spin doctor much,you said he sux he doesn't,and Denard damn sure wasn't a better passer - Yeeesh
Yes Billy Price and Jamarco Jones are off the O-Line and in the NFL.But the big change is on that deep defensive line which has an adverse effect when more often than not Barret got the ball back every 4 downs in most games.Tyquan Lewis,Jalyn Holmes,Sam Hubbard,Trace Sprinkle,Michael Hill off of the defensive line(not to mention Nick Bosa).Defensive backs Denzel Ward,Damon Webb,Erik Wright.Linebackers Jerome Baker,Chris Worley and TE Marcus Baugh.Think of that depth lost - the program didn't recover specially the D-Line that was the deepest that I've ever seen coupled with this years starters.All those guys are on NFL rosters except Erik Smith - think about that.5 lineman,2 starting lbs & 3 starting db's - gone.That defense habitually gave the ball back to the offense with Billy Price and J.Jones still blocking.Haskins would look real good with all that helpThat's a lot of talent lost, to be sure. Is it that much more than average? Not by draft picks. Maybe just a lot of UDFA types in there? Shoot, the talent exoduses after 2015 and 2016 were quite hefty.
I SI think what probably frustrates most osu fans is that when they had a runner like JT the coaches would inexplicably call 35 passes in a game and when they have a gun slinger they ask him to either run RPO, options or complete abandon the run and throw it 73 times.What would be the issue with running RPO here?
Looking at LSU historically they’ve not coached the offensive side of the ball well, and based on what I’ve read there’s no Landry or Beckham at WR
But make no mistake I’d take probably Haskins 1, then JT and burrow 3
Now perhaps that means the replacement talent isn't that good, but it comes as OSU has literally been recruiting better by the metrics. Maybe it'll turn out this group lacks the talent. But I have a strange feeling we'll be seeing a lot of this year's team on the next level, probably at the same rate as most years.The O-line has been marginal/pedestrian against the stoudt lines a tad turnstile-ish,recruiting fell off a year.This team will not have the across the board talent on Sunday rosters.The vacuum felt by that exodus in the trenches is obvious.Sadly I don't see the Buckeyes approaching that kind of quality depth anytime soon.Bosa and a sprinkling will get snatched up in the draft but not like previous seasons IMO
The point of RPO is to keep the defense unbalanced, but when there’s no chance of run, ever, the defense knows this and plays it accordingly. And thats how you wind up throwing 73 times against Purdue. RPO is fine if you have a dual threat, but it’s not Dwayne’s game. He’s a great QB, but he’s pro style.This is not how RPOs work, and while a dual threat thing can help them, it’s highly unnecessary.