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Topic: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.

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Drew4UTk

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2019, 04:54:19 PM »
Executing against air is more difficult than it should be for many teams

that was Drew's point or part of it.

the top dogs haven't played anyone yet, but they are executing at an incredible rate
Bingo. 

And I will further offer:  the biggest opponents on the field any given Saturday are dressed the same.  The cohesion is what makes a team great, and that is measured by the consistency of execution. 

utee94

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2019, 04:59:45 PM »
Executing against air is more difficult than it should be for many teams

that was Drew's point or part of it.

the top dogs haven't played anyone yet, but they are executing at an incredible rate

I get it.

I am flat out disagreeing with drew's point and I've explained my opposition multiple times now.

Texas has played one game against a known bad opponent so far, and one game against an overmatched opponent, and executed perfectly in those games. That's all we know about Oklahoma or Alabama, as well. 

The fact that Texas has also played two GOOD teams, and didn't execute perfectly, doesn't change the fact that against the one bad team and one questionable team Texas has played, they played pretty much a flawless games.

You just can't compare Texas' performances against LSU and Oklahoma State, to OU's performances against, well, nobody.  That's not the proper comparison.

The proper comparison is comparing Texas' performances against Rice and Louisiana Tech, to the entire body of work that OU, or Alabama, or Clemson have put together this year.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 05:11:30 PM by utee94 »

Cincydawg

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2019, 10:26:36 AM »
The good news is we are about to get "more data" in a torrent, almost.

BrownCounty

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2019, 10:55:13 AM »
So anyway, back to the thread title:

Southwest division:
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Arkansas

Northwest division:
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Iowa State

Southeast division:
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Auburn
Alabama
Florida

Northeast division:
Georgia
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

Drew4UTk

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2019, 11:06:23 AM »
i reread this... i'm thinking the element missed or misunderstood is RIGHT NOW... Right Now, the teams are ____.  

but even that said, i stand behind the element of execution is not disrupted by anyone but the team executing.  clean execution and positioning based on timing is the key to these teams playing these 'type' of offenses.  maybe they'll meet up with someone who bumps the crap out of receivers off the line and disrupts the timing route, or a player savvy enough to miss the pick play/block.  Maybe they have a D line that crowds the lanes or gets penetration enough to upset the play as it develops.. Maybe the game comes down to power, and if it does the game they're trying to play (this what i'm referring to as 'new' developing style) goes out the window.  So far that hasn't happened- but it certainly can.  

watching the Texas/LSU game there was certainly individual players playing 'freak' tough, but most of those plays were after the catch or hand off and started (the freak hits and drags) in space pitting individual against individual- and the individual player made the play.  ... but that is a matter of talent and ability and is in actual opposition to the 'concept' i'm speaking of which is reliant on TEAM and TEAM position (scheme).  That game ended a 45-38 affair.  It's more than safe to say that neither team broke the others cohesion on O else the score wouldn't have been so high for both teams- what happened is one team survived and the other ran out of time. 

the 'game' i'm speaking of runs a hurry up, runs high percentage passing plays with plows in front of the receivers (often other receivers), and crossing plays that are designed to net medium gains of 5-7 yards. As soon as the O catches the D in a set they've been waiting for they try to keep them on the field and exploit it.  this 'type' of O has roots in the BigXII, which is again why i started the thread here- oSu has been doing it.. TT was doing it.. Baylor, for cripes sake, was doing it.  Texas under Herman is doing it.  OU has been doing it for a while.  Now, Saban is doing it.  Auburn is doing it.  Freakin' LSU is doing it now that they've found a QB capable of even threatening it.... the Saints do it.  The Rams do it.  Those coaches spent a lot of time with each other over the past several years developing their concepts, and those concepts are settling on this type of play.  and this type of play is dependent on proper execution and players being where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there more so than any other element... meaning: their biggest opponent is themselves.    

rolltidefan

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2019, 11:35:10 AM »
So anyway, back to the thread title:

Southwest division:
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Arkansas

Northwest division:
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Iowa State

Southeast division:
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Auburn
Alabama
Florida

Northeast division:
Georgia
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

not that i disagree with the alignment, but damn is that se div stacked compared to the rest. the ne div is looking light, at least based on current form. sw and nw are both top heavy, but respectable in middle.

BrownCounty

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2019, 11:45:59 AM »
not that i disagree with the alignment, but damn is that se div stacked compared to the rest.

It's pretty hard to group the deep southern part of the SEC without making it a blood bath.

Bama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia are all neighbors, and LSU is just a skip across Mississippi.

utee94

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2019, 11:48:15 AM »
i reread this... i'm thinking the element missed or misunderstood is RIGHT NOW... Right Now, the teams are ____. 

but even that said, i stand behind the element of execution is not disrupted by anyone but the team executing.  clean execution and positioning based on timing is the key to these teams playing these 'type' of offenses.  maybe they'll meet up with someone who bumps the crap out of receivers off the line and disrupts the timing route, or a player savvy enough to miss the pick play/block.  Maybe they have a D line that crowds the lanes or gets penetration enough to upset the play as it develops.. Maybe the game comes down to power, and if it does the game they're trying to play (this what i'm referring to as 'new' developing style) goes out the window.  So far that hasn't happened- but it certainly can. 

watching the Texas/LSU game there was certainly individual players playing 'freak' tough, but most of those plays were after the catch or hand off and started (the freak hits and drags) in space pitting individual against individual- and the individual player made the play.  ... but that is a matter of talent and ability and is in actual opposition to the 'concept' i'm speaking of which is reliant on TEAM and TEAM position (scheme).  That game ended a 45-38 affair.  It's more than safe to say that neither team broke the others cohesion on O else the score wouldn't have been so high for both teams- what happened is one team survived and the other ran out of time.

the 'game' i'm speaking of runs a hurry up, runs high percentage passing plays with plows in front of the receivers (often other receivers), and crossing plays that are designed to net medium gains of 5-7 yards. As soon as the O catches the D in a set they've been waiting for they try to keep them on the field and exploit it.  this 'type' of O has roots in the BigXII, which is again why i started the thread here- oSu has been doing it.. TT was doing it.. Baylor, for cripes sake, was doing it.  Texas under Herman is doing it.  OU has been doing it for a while.  Now, Saban is doing it.  Auburn is doing it.  Freakin' LSU is doing it now that they've found a QB capable of even threatening it.... the Saints do it.  The Rams do it.  Those coaches spent a lot of time with each other over the past several years developing their concepts, and those concepts are settling on this type of play.  and this type of play is dependent on proper execution and players being where they are supposed to be when they are supposed to be there more so than any other element... meaning: their biggest opponent is themselves.   

Still don't agree with you.  You're acting like a defense can't disrupt the offense of these teams.  I'm telling you they simply haven't faced any defenses capable of it, so far this season. They've played air.  Leaving 11 players standing around not moving at all, might even be better than what they've faced so far.   We're clearly not going to agree on this, and that's okay, but I don't feel like going round and round over and over again, so I'll leave it at that.

All that aside, yes, some SEC teams are beginning to run offenses similar to what the B12 has been doing for a couple of decades.  Here on the B12 board, we've been pointing this out for years. Welcome to 2007. :)

FearlessF

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2019, 12:05:15 PM »
my question:

are the new aged offenses creeping into the SEC causing the defenses to give up more yards and points

creating the image that SEC defenses aren't as good as in the past, or more like Big 12 defenses?
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utee94

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2019, 12:18:26 PM »
my question:

are the new aged offenses creeping into the SEC causing the defenses to give up more yards and points

creating the image that SEC defenses aren't as good as in the past, or more like Big 12 defenses?

Good question.

I haven't looked at it very closely.  Anecodotally, when A&M entered the SEC-West with a more wide-open offense in 2012, they certainly put up bigger numbers against those SEC defenses than folks were used to.  Same thing for Missouri in the SEC-East for some of those years. 

This year, Texas' offense put up more yards and points against LSthan you might expect from a top-notch SEC defense.

But I've never really tried to look at it from a statistical point of view.  It'd be interesting to check out for sure

rolltidefan

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2019, 12:46:13 PM »
It's pretty hard to group the deep southern part of the SEC without making it a blood bath.

Bama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia are all neighbors, and LSU is just a skip across Mississippi.
agree. lsu would need to move, which would cause a major shuffle.

move lsu from se to sw div.
move arky from sw to nw.
move mizzou from nw to ne.
and move vandy from ne to se. (uga would probably make more sense geographically, but then you're not solving anything.

sw strengthens quite a bit (lsu>arky), ne strengthens some (mizz>vandy), nw is about same (arky=mizz), and se gets much more comparable to other divs.

to be clear, i would not be in favor of this move. but if goal is even divs, that would likely be best move, geographically at least.

longhorn320

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2019, 01:02:47 PM »
Why would anyone want a conference with 24 teams in it?

Pretty soon all the divisions would be treated like  conferences and you start all over again 
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BrownCounty

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2019, 01:28:00 PM »
Why would anyone want a conference with 24 teams in it?

Why would anyone want to pay players?  Ask California.

And who would want a 4-division, 24 team "SEC"?  ESPN, for starters.

BrownCounty

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Re: The Big SEC, or the SEC 12... hmmm.
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2019, 01:32:08 PM »
move lsu from se to sw div.
move arky from sw to nw.
move mizzou from nw to ne.
and move vandy from ne to se. (uga would probably make more sense geographically, but then you're not solving anything. 

The thing about aligning divisions based on "strength", is that is assumes the same teams (schools) will be the best teams eternally.

The NFL doesn't realign when one division gets strong and another gets weak.  They just let time run its course.

I understand that pure geography is a little different in college, because the best players largely all come from the same geographical areas.  But when the Big Ten did "Leaders and Legends", everybody did a knee slap.

 

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