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Topic: Texas vs Texas Tech

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CharleyHorse46

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 12:38:51 PM »
If Texas hires a *real* AD, I could see Herman being 2 and done.  Given things don't trend positive.

Look what happened to Patterson as AD.  In and out.  Why?  Because he was a jack wagon.

News flash - Herman is a jack wagon.  Hire an AD now.  If we go through another year of this offense and 5-6 wins, we are spinning our wheels.

Mack wants the job.  Hire him.
I honestly believe it takes at least four or five years for a new coach to implement his culture, recruit his players and build his program.
Joe Paterno went 6-6 his first year at Penn St, Bobby Bowden went 5-6 his first year at FSU, Bear Bryant went 5-4-1 his first year at Bama, Woody Hays went 4-3-2 his first year at Ohio State, Lou Holtz went 5-6 his first year with Notre Dame, Frank Beamer went 2-9 and 3-8 his first two years with Virginia Tech.
Mack Brown rebuilt North Carolina by going 1-10, 1-10, 6-4-1, 7-4 and 9-3 in his first five years.  A dramatic upward trend that was completely unforeseeable without seasons 3 through 5.
This idea that a coach has to win immediately is an absurd byproduct of a throw-away society.
Charlie Strong lost to Kansas which is unforgivable but Texas has endured a hell of lot of indignities over the last forty years.   How is losing to Kansas any worse than 59 yards of total offense against Arkansas or giving up 550 yards rushing to BYU or giving up 64 points to OU or 66-3 or losing to Rice?
Who are we kidding? We have no dignity left to lose.

Charlie Strong should've gotten five years.  Tom Herman should get five years.

Anytime you have to start over, you set your program back even farther it would be.

BrownCounty

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2017, 12:43:40 PM »
Anytime you have to start over, you set your program back even farther it would be.

This is solid theory that cannot be consistently proven in application.

Too many schools have taken the right hire and shot straight to the top.  It just happens.

CharleyHorse46

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2017, 01:18:15 PM »
This is solid theory that cannot be consistently proven in application.

Too many schools have taken the right hire and shot straight to the top.  It just happens.
Uhm... no.  That is not accurate.
In fact, the only one I can think of who even came close was Gus Malzahn at Auburn who lost the BSC game his first year.  Not quite "the top" but close.
Let's look at who else is at or near the top, what they inherited and how long it took to get there.
Dabo Swinney.  Lost 26 games over seven years before he "shot straight to the top."   Even had a losing season his third year at Clemson.  Would we stand for something like that at Texas?  Doubtful.  
Lincoln Riley.  Inherited the best team in the Big 12.   'Course they haven't won an MNC in 17 years.
Paul Chryst.  He was rather mediocre at Pittsburgh but people like Gary Andersen and Brett Bielema were able to win there too.  As a matter of fact, nobody's had a bad season there in 16 years.  But... have they won a national championship?   No.  Not quite.
Mark Richt is an excellent coach.  Of course he spent 15 years at Georgia before he went to Miami.  Kirby Smart got to reap the benefits of the foundation Richt built.
James Franklin has done remarkably well at Penn State.  Of course, he hasn't been perfect and it's taken him a while.  There were time when it looked like he'd be run out of town - like the time Temple destroyed them.
You know... honestly, I'm looking and I can't find one.   Other than Urban Meyer and Nick Saban - who exactly has been able to be wildly successful immediately?
It just doesn't happen no matter how green the grass on the other side may look.

BrownCounty

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2017, 02:45:32 PM »
Uhm... no.  That is not accurate.
I think you are viewing this in terms of a coaches career, whereas I am contending that many coaches (experienced or otherwise) have taken over jobs and built a contender right away.

You even name one - Franklin, for example.  Sure he took his lumps elsewhere, but I'm just talking about it from the Penn State perspective, in that case.  They made a change and boom, success.

CharleyHorse46

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2017, 03:51:26 PM »
When I talked about Franklin taking his lumps and losing to Temple, I meant at Penn State.  20 or 25 games into their jobs at Texas and Penn State respectively, it looked like we had made the better choice in picking Strong over Franklin.  Then all of sudden the 2016 Nittany Lions went on a 9 game winning streak while the Horns lost 6 of 10 by less than a TD and in less than three months Franklin looked like a great coach and Strong looked like a terrible one.

If Franklin had come to Texas would he have been just as successful as he is at Penn State?

Or... what if Florida had hired Charlie Strong instead of Will Muschamp?  Would Florida and Texas both still be enjoying the success they had in the 2000s?

BrownCounty

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2017, 04:07:04 PM »
Well, I just feel like Herman was hired by mob rule.

We didn't have a seasoned AD to tell us no, that's not the guy.  That he's still green.  That he's not ready for this level.  That he's too cocky.

Perrin had no business hiring a head coach for this program.  And to what level he was involved, Fenves sure as hell doesn't.

None of the above says Herman won't be successful at Texas, because I hope he is.  But the statements above still stand.

I just want an AD, and let's go from there.  And not a Fenves gender/race based selection.  McRaven is starting to somewhat disappoint me.  I was ready for some no-nonsense leadership.

CharleyHorse46

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2017, 04:22:58 PM »
Well, I just feel like Herman was hired by mob rule.

We didn't have a seasoned AD to tell us no, that's not the guy.  That he's still green.  That he's not ready for this level.  That he's too cocky.

Perrin had no business hiring a head coach for this program.  And to what level he was involved, Fenves sure as hell doesn't.

None of the above says Herman won't be successful at Texas, because I hope he is.  But the statements above still stand.

I just want an AD, and let's go from there.  And not a Fenves gender/race based selection.  McRaven is starting to somewhat disappoint me.  I was ready for some no-nonsense leadership.
I completely agree with the first five paragraphs.  You lost me on the last one.  I guess I missed an article on Fenves making race and gender a priority in hiring so I don't know anything about that.  Guess I'll have to google.
About the first part of your part of your post, yeah.
Strong wasn't working out as quickly or smoothly as we hoped while Herman seemed to be tearing it up two hours away.   We couldn't have that.
To me, Herman's resume looked so remarkably similar to Strong's, part of my better judgment was yelling, "this is STUPID!"  But, admittedly, there was also that nagging voice of "what if."

What if - Herman is the next great thing.  The next Urban Meyer, the next Nick Saban, the next Gus Malzahn, the next Vince Lombardi.
What if the University of Houston breaks into the CFP and wins it?
What if A&M hires him and he wins several MNCs there?
We knew what we had with Strong.  We had no idea what we might have with Herman.  I got caught up in the fervor too.
I wanted to believe he was next DKR and Mack Brown.
Instead it's like watching an orangutan clean a loaded shotgun.   You're not quite sure how it's going to turn out but you know it's probably going to be more bad than interesting. 

BrownCounty

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2017, 04:54:34 PM »
I completely agree with the first five paragraphs.  You lost me on the last one.  I guess I missed an article on Fenves making race and gender a priority in hiring so I don't know anything about that.
Rumoured here and there that Fenves has pushed Plonsky for the job.

CharleyHorse46

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2017, 05:21:42 PM »
Hmm.... I had not heard those rumors.  

I hear about Plonsky from time to time.  She's been good for women's athletics at the university and she encroached into even other territories with Powers' blessing, but I heard her authority was waning somewhat nowadays and I hadn't heard anything about Fenves feeling especially positive or negative about her or towards her in any way.

Googling didn't tell me much either.

Maybe that's insiders gossip.

longhorn320

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2017, 05:28:04 PM »
I read on another forum that Mack wants the AD position at UT
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

CharleyHorse46

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2017, 05:33:57 PM »
He might could be a good one.  The very same achilles' heels that undermined him as a coach could strengthen him as an AD.

BrownCounty

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2017, 05:52:30 PM »
Yes Mack wants it.

He loves this program.

Ingrates.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2017, 06:12:39 PM »
Heh!  Hells yeah.  Huddle after every play.  Take your time getting back to the line.  Snap the ball when the 45 second clock is down to one.  Use up an entire quarter running one 24 play 80 yard drive.  Keep your defense fresh.  Keep your opponent's offense off the field.
I love it.
I hear Les is available, if you're ready to part ways with Herman.
You'll get exactly what you wished for.  

CWSooner

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Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2017, 11:05:26 PM »
Bob Stoops.  Hired in 1999.  Won the national championship in 2000.  Oklahoma had gone 12-22 over John Blake's three-year  tenure.

Larry Coker.  Promoted to HFC in 2001.  Won the national championship in 2001.  Miami had gone 18-7 in Butch Davis' last two seasons.

Jim Tressel.  Hired in 2001.  Won the national championship in 2002.  Ohio State had gone 14-10 in John Cooper's last two seasons.

One inherited a longtime power now broken on the rocks.  One inherited a power program rebounding from the rocks.  And one inherited a longtime power that was underachieving.

Everybody saw that.  Every fan, every administrator.

There's where giving a new coach 5 years to install his system and change the culture got trashed in the search for quick success.

I wonder if there's something unusual about the UT job that led to Charlie Strong failing.  If there is so much in the job description that the HFC doesn't have time to coach.  Charlie Strong can coach football.  I was greatly worried about him succeeding too well at UT.  I hoped that the Sooners could beat him badly enough, often enough, right off the bat that he would not get enough time to get UT back on track.  Instead, he went 1-2 against us and his two losses were very close.

But the program went further off the tracks, and he got fired

Now he's coaching elsewhere and succeeding again.  Proving again that he can coach.

Strange.
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