header pic

The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Texas vs TCU

 (Read 20873 times)

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2019, 07:49:48 AM »
If there's any problem, it's Herman's problem.

Truth is, I wasn't enamored with the hiring of Herman, but at the time I couldn't think of any potential hire who would enamor me.  And it got rid of Charlie, which was all that mattered.  So I gave Herman a chance.

As I watched his pressers, he begins to seem kind of arrogant.  But what the heck.  Then he mocks the Missouri QB, prancing up and down THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS sideline apeing like a drunk frat boy.  NOT Texas standard.  Frankly, not anybody's standard.  What millionaire D1 coach does that??  But we won 10 games last year.  So again, what the heck.  I guess...

But hell no.  He's a snarky dickhead, and he better beat TCU.

So anyway, recruits will start bailing out now, more players will enter the portal, and it appears evident we aren't making ball players out of Hermy's own recruits.

This ain't our last loss of the season.  Wait till Baylor finishes with us, with their 2nd year coach.  And Iowa State?

The good news - our new, rock star AD didn't hire him.  And likely just suffers his lack of charm like the rest of us do.  A good guy deserves a chance to fix things.  Herman does not fall in the "good guy" category.  The way he presents himself, he better win.

If we don't win at least 8, CDC will bust a move.  And not a single Texas-Ex will complain.  This ain't nice guy Charlie we're dealing with here.


As a fan, I kind of get this, and there's definitely coaches I've liked better than others.

On the other hand, how much a dick a guy is or how much I like him doesn't change the coach he is, and I can't help but think it's irrational to change one's evaluation based on how much you like or don't like a coach.  

I don't make those kinds of decisions, but I'd first give him the chance to correct that problem.  Don't think I'd be willing to run him off just yet.  If I were the AD I'd make him aware of my concerns and then let him live or die by his action/inaction.  Whether he chooses to stick with Orlando or not, and if so, Orlando better get it fixed, or he as the head coach made the wrong call and he's gone.  Or whether he chooses to ditch Orlando and hire somebody else, in which case THEY better get it right, or it was the wrong call and he's gone.  

I dunno.  I'm neither the one who makes those decisions nor a fan of the team it concerns.  Just my $0.02 as a neutral observer.  If he were coaching my team, I see enough things I like about him I'd hope he'd get a chance to fix the defense.  Of course, if he were the coach of my team I'd also be calling for his head on a platter at this point, so there's that.  Fandom necessarily colors everything, we're kidding ourselves if we think it doesn't.  

Mr Tulip

  • Learn to love or leave me. Either one you wanna do.
  • Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 843
  • Non Serviam
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2019, 05:38:19 PM »
Everything is definitely not fine. That's easily seen and understood.

The question, then, becomes what Todd Orlando should be doing differently than he has. If you're going to advocate firing someone, you can't simply say, "The results aren't what we want.". You should be able to point to actual mistakes that shouldn't have occurred. Otherwise, you're not solving any problems. You're just venting blame.

Remember the beginning of the season when Texas knew it was replacing 8 members of its defense. We knew those replacements had spent time in the program, and were more veteran than their status conferred. Well, against KSU, we're getting back FOUR STARTERS out of that group from injury. That means replacements for the replacements have been playing some or all the games since oSu.

For further thought, go back and see the roster attrition on the defensive side for the last season of the Charlie Strong regime and the first year of the Tom Herman era. Kids leaving when the coach is fired is to be expected, and that happened. Texas still hasn't built that particular cupboard back up yet.

Big 12 offenses are cruel. Orlando may indeed be managing a disaster by just trying to keep pieces from breaking worse. I'm not swearing that he shouldn't be questioned. I'm just saying that it's easy to rail on the coach when results aren't up to our expectations. I'm saying those expectations might not be reachable by anyone given the current facts.

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2019, 03:13:44 PM »
Finding a way to make his charges tackle would be an obvious start.  I mean, I can detail you a few key things that I'd be specifically bitching at Orlando for if he were my DC, but I don't want it to seem like I'm piling on.  But just start with the basics...like tackling.  It was bad in game 1 when I saw them in person, it was bad the next week against LSU, and didn't get much better from there.  That is fixable within a season, but it hasn't been.  

Offenses everywhere are cruel.  There's no harbor in the Big 12 these days with over half of cfb running some type of RPO spread that gives defenses fits.  

Orlando hasn't been impressive in his 2.5 years at UT, and you can only give a guy so much rope.  

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37483
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2019, 04:11:07 PM »
oh, you can ALWAYS give a guy more rope
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2019, 09:05:54 AM »
Well, yes, but should you?  

From the outside looking in, seems offense and a lot of operational aspects of the program look good.  I wouldn't be breaking out pitchforks for Herman or anything.  The defense seems to have underperformed too often....there is a guy whose job that is.  That might be overly simplistic.  I'm a simple guy.  

It's all academic anyway.  I'm not a Texas fan, I just live with one.  

BrownCounty

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3677
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2019, 09:17:16 AM »
Well, yes, but should you? 

Texas has to get 7 wins for Herman to see another year.  And I'm telling you, 6-6 could happen.

Charlie Strong only got 3 years.  This is year 3 for Herman.
CDC did not hire Herman, and he is not a fan (tailgate gossip).

Truth is, Herman should still be working off his rough edges at Houston or some other non-P5.  Strong made everybody at Texas jump too fast, and I don't blame us for that.  But 6 wins at TEXAS won't get it for an unpolished HC who did a mockery dance in a bowl game.

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9313
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2019, 11:05:01 AM »
dont agree
he gets another year no matter what
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17651
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2019, 03:13:10 PM »
Charlie Strong never hit 10 wins nor get to the Sugar Bowl nor win it against a Top 5 team nor finish in the Top 10.

Comparing the two seems.... really weird.  6-6 would most certainly get him to year 4 but you better believe the hook would be quick after that.

Still I can certainly understand and share the frustration.  For sure this year's defense has been a disaster, and the special teams are arguably worse.  Something needs to change.

It's not my job to determine exactly what that is, but I can tell you I make similar decisions at work every single day-- except I do that in my own areas of expertise.  I'm not paid to coach football.  Tom Herman is.  And he's paid at a level where the expectations are 10-win seasons, conference championships, and competing nationally at the highest level.  This season, that's not happening.

BrownCounty

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3677
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2019, 03:25:13 PM »
I admit I have a non-football bias against Herman.

When he gave his sideline performance at the nationally broadcast Sugar Bowl - I said to myself, "he damn sure better win football games".

6-6 is not damn sure winning.

Charlie may not be the best coach around, but he wouldn't have pulled that stunt.

Mr Tulip

  • Learn to love or leave me. Either one you wanna do.
  • Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 843
  • Non Serviam
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2019, 05:07:43 PM »
I liked Charlie Strong, and I think if we would have stuck with him, he would have eventually learned to win games at Texas. Let's be honest though. He never was well liked by a majority of the power brokers at Texas. Steve Patterson wasn't popular, and Strong was a "whaddya mean Saban said no?" stopgap.

Texas short circuited the learning curve by hiring a guy in Tom Herman who had already done his time as a student of the best teachers the game has. It was also fortunate that he's a Texas homer and really wanted the job. He still has an education deficit, because the only way to learn is to do it, and there's no experience the same as being Texas' head coach. Texas has already paid for some of his education. There will probably be some more, but the overall likelihood is that he'll continue to improve.

Texas gets up to four defensive starters back for the KSU game. I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made. I'm saying subtracting four from anyone's starting roster is going to lead to pain. TCU found our true freshman safety during crunch time and threw at him. I doubt Orlando had him there to gain experience.

Right now, I want to enjoy these last four games, and hopefully do well enough to play in the Big 12 CCG. Whatever happens after that, I hope it's after a really swell NYE party. I want to find out that Sam Cosmi is going to stay at Texas. Since he's currently the only underclassman for whom leaving early is in the realm of sanity, I hope everyone else just stays sane.



longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9313
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2019, 05:31:27 PM »
for what its worth

UT is favored by 6 against the cats
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17651
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2019, 05:53:06 PM »
Not worth much. 

Here's hoping for something that doesn't look like a complete disaster.

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2019, 10:53:34 PM »
I liked Charlie Strong, and I think if we would have stuck with him, he would have eventually learned to win games at Texas. Let's be honest though. He never was well liked by a majority of the power brokers at Texas. Steve Patterson wasn't popular, and Strong was a "whaddya mean Saban said no?" stopgap.

Texas short circuited the learning curve by hiring a guy in Tom Herman who had already done his time as a student of the best teachers the game has. It was also fortunate that he's a Texas homer and really wanted the job. He still has an education deficit, because the only way to learn is to do it, and there's no experience the same as being Texas' head coach. Texas has already paid for some of his education. There will probably be some more, but the overall likelihood is that he'll continue to improve.

Texas gets up to four defensive starters back for the KSU game. I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made. I'm saying subtracting four from anyone's starting roster is going to lead to pain. TCU found our true freshman safety during crunch time and threw at him. I doubt Orlando had him there to gain experience.

Right now, I want to enjoy these last four games, and hopefully do well enough to play in the Big 12 CCG. Whatever happens after that, I hope it's after a really swell NYE party. I want to find out that Sam Cosmi is going to stay at Texas. Since he's currently the only underclassman for whom leaving early is in the realm of sanity, I hope everyone else just stays sane.
I think this is basically on the mark, except . . . .
Mack Brown didn't have a 3-year learning curve at UT.  He started his streak of 11 seasons with 9 or more wins in his first year.
John Mackovic, he of song and story, went 8-4 his 3rd year and 10-2-1 his 4th.
Fred Akers went 11-1 his 1st year.
Darrell Royal went 9-2 his 3rd year.
Play Like a Champion Today

BrownCounty

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3677
  • Liked:
Re: Texas vs TCU
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2019, 09:10:50 AM »
I liked Charlie Strong, and I think if we would have stuck with him, he would have eventually learned to win games at Texas. Let's be honest though. He never was well liked by a majority of the power brokers at Texas.

Sorry Tulip, nothing bears any of that out.

1) I don't know what kind of evidence you need - is Charlie at USF not enough for you?  They went undefeated before he took them over.  He made Texas look like a Div-II disaster.  He would "eventually" win at Texas?  Only in the broken clock sense I guess.

2) Charlie was defended to the hilt - far beyond normal coach defense protocol.  Sure, Red didn't pick him, and Red was right.  Charlie was given a chance to prove Red wrong.  He was never close.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.