CFB51 College Football Fan Community

The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: longhorn320 on October 21, 2019, 08:58:05 PM

Title: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 21, 2019, 08:58:05 PM
I dont care what happened in the Kansas game the Horns will take the toads

Opening Vegas line favors TCU by 2.5 and now is a pickem

As I mentioned in another post TH coached teams do very well when rated an underdog

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 22, 2019, 07:50:51 AM
Mrs. DeTiger will be there.  Hopefully the Horns put on a good show.  No offense to DevilFroggy, if you're still around here 😎
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on October 22, 2019, 09:31:55 AM
For all the (more than deserved) lament of the Texas defense, OU went to the CFP last year having to put 50 on everybody in order to have a chance to win. Now, I'm hoping these defensive failures get fixed, but Texas certainly has the offense to outpoint the Frogs.

I believe limiting Sam's carries wasn't exactly the smartest thing. It's undeniable that he's the most irreplaceable player Texas has. However, I think he's the type of football player that thrives on contact. His body knows he's playing ball when he gets hit. Until then, he's just scrimmaging.

I'm trusting someone took our OL aside and gave them a copy of "My First Line Stunt Pickup" book? All of a sudden, they act like they've never seen one. If you're the RB, your choice is "pick up blitzer by cutting him" or "flare for a swing pass". Either one will do, but do one.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2019, 12:53:44 PM
I dont care what happened in the Kansas game the Horns will take the toads

Opening Vegas line favors TCU by 2.5 and now is a pickem

As I mentioned in another post TH coached teams do very well when rated an underdog


I took the Horns and gave 22 last week
they owe me one this week, taking the Horns again
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 22, 2019, 01:12:28 PM
I took the Horns and gave 22 last week
they owe me one this week, taking the Horns again
I think you made a good bet

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2019, 01:15:27 PM
TCU is below their usual standard so far this season.  But they're still better than Kansas, so...

Anyway I might go up for this game, just a day-trip.  

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on October 22, 2019, 01:15:36 PM
I believe limiting Sam's carries wasn't exactly the smartest thing. It's undeniable that he's the most irreplaceable player Texas has.

Wouldn't your 2nd statement serve as a rebuttal to the 1st?

We still need to amass more talent.  True - Sam is our most irreplaceable, but he's just a "heart" player.  I do not consider Sam a rolling ball of QB talent - not a Joe Burrow type.

We need players with heart, but we've got to recruit some juggernauts to join the final circle of 4.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2019, 01:17:58 PM
everyone needs another Vince Young, geez
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on October 22, 2019, 01:33:55 PM
everyone needs another Vince Young, geez

I have an unpopular opinion of Vince Young, but I'll let his NFL career speak for that.

Suffice to say, Texas wasted a truckload of peripheral talent while Vince was at QB.  When the game got too "heady" for Vince, he simply tucked it in and jogged for 50 yards.  Good thing he had the ability to do so.  It didn't do much for him at the next level.

Whether it was adequately leveraged or not, few seem to reflect on the arsenal of horsepower that surrounded Vince Young on the Texas offense.  No other in CFB could touch it.  An immobile QB could have won with that team, but just an overall "athlete" was all it took.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on October 22, 2019, 01:47:25 PM
Wouldn't your 2nd statement serve as a rebuttal to the 1st?

We still need to amass more talent.  True - Sam is our most irreplaceable, but he's just a "heart" player.  I do not consider Sam a rolling ball of QB talent - not a Joe Burrow type.

We need players with heart, but we've got to recruit some juggernauts to join the final circle of 4.

Sam is only the most irreplaceable player if he's playing up to his ability. By keeping him from being hit, we take away a good chunk of that ability. Sam has to be hit to play his best ball.

It certainly is a risk management thing. I simply believe that we're trending too far to the risk averse, both in terms of destroying the unpredictability of our offense and not getting the player engaged in the game. Get Sam a QB keeper off-tackle or two early on, and let him compete.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 22, 2019, 01:55:00 PM
We still need to amass more talent.  True - Sam is our most irreplaceable, but he's just a "heart" player.  I do not consider Sam a rolling ball of QB talent - not a Joe Burrow type.


??

He QBs the SP+ #5 rated offense, and he's running the same pro-style spread Burrow runs at LSU, with a few more designed QB runs.  He's being asked to do quite a bit more than the simpler RPO/smashmouth spreads or power spread guys, and UT's scoring ability indicates he does it rather well.  

I don't see much way around recognizing he's one of the best in the game.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on October 22, 2019, 02:07:08 PM
Wouldn't your 2nd statement serve as a rebuttal to the 1st?

We still need to amass more talent.  True - Sam is our most irreplaceable, but he's just a "heart" player.  I do not consider Sam a rolling ball of QB talent - not a Joe Burrow type.

We need players with heart, but we've got to recruit some juggernauts to join the final circle of 4.
You should have some juggernauts on the roster.  You've had great recruiting classes.

Gotta get to the Big 12 CCG more often to have a shot at joining the 4.

Right now, Baylor is standing in your way.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on October 22, 2019, 02:13:00 PM
Right now, Baylor is standing in your way.

And little does Herman know, but in Longhorn Nation, a loss to Baylor is not regarded much higher than a loss to Kansas.

Especially a Baylor that is 2 seasons removed from losing every game.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on October 22, 2019, 02:30:51 PM
And little does Herman know, but in Longhorn Nation, a loss to Baylor is not regarded much higher than a loss to Kansas.

Especially a Baylor that is 2 seasons removed from losing every game.
I know that perspective.
It's how I felt in 2011 when OU lost to Baylor for the first time ever.  That was culture shock.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2019, 02:39:11 PM
So what is the current B12 tie-breaker in the case of a 3-way tie?  Say Texas wins out including a win over Baylor, and Baylor beats OU but loses no other games besides Texas, and OU loses to Baylor but wins all other remaining games... who are the two that are in?

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on October 22, 2019, 02:53:54 PM
So what is the current B12 tie-breaker in the case of a 3-way tie?

No worries.  Officials will keep that from happening.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 22, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
So what is the current B12 tie-breaker in the case of a 3-way tie?  Say Texas wins out including a win over Baylor, and Baylor beats OU but loses no other games besides Texas, and OU loses to Baylor but wins all other remaining games... who are the two that are in?


https://big12sports.com/news/2008/7/31/1546006.aspx

 (https://big12sports.com/news/2008/7/31/1546006.aspx)good luck understanding it
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2019, 03:24:46 PM
No worries.  Officials will keep that from happening.
They might try, but we have to remember they're still B12 officials so they could easily screw up the screwing over, so to speak.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on October 22, 2019, 03:26:07 PM
So what is the current B12 tie-breaker in the case of a 3-way tie?  Say Texas wins out including a win over Baylor, and Baylor beats OU but loses no other games besides Texas, and OU loses to Baylor but wins all other remaining games... who are the two that are in?
Tiebreaker Procedure. If two teams are tied for first place both teams will participate in the championship game and the winner of the head-to-head will be the #1 seed.  If more than two teams tie for first place, the tiebreaker procedures below will be applied separately, to identify each participant in the championship game.

In the event two (or more teams) tie for second or any subsequent position, the tiebreaker procedures below will be used to break all ties as necessary.  For the avoidance of doubt, only Conference records will be used throughout the process:
a.    If two teams are tied, the winner of the regular-season game between the two tied teams shall prevail.
b.    If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 4 will be followed until a determination is made.  If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the regular season game between the two tied teams shall prevail.
    1.    The Conference records of the three or more teams will be compared against each other in a “mini round-robin” format.
    2.    The Conference records of the three or more teams will be compared against the remaining team(s) in the Conference standings from top to bottom.
            a. When comparing against the remaining teams in the Conference standings any two-way ties will be broken by head-to-head competition before the comparison begins.
            b. If more than a two-way tie exists amongst the remaining teams in the Conference standings, the record against the collective tied teams as a group will be used.
    3.    Scoring differential among the tied teams. The team or teams with the lowest difference between points scored and points allowed in games vs. the tied teams is eliminated from consideration.
    4.    Draw (In the event steps 1-3 cannot break a multi-team tie the prevailing team or teams will be determined by draw at the Conference office).

In the event tiebreaking procedures are unsuccessful and a draw is necessary in determining any portion of seeding, the following procedures will be used:
            a. The draw will be conducted in public or with media attendance.
            b. Institutions involved in the drawing have the right to have a local representative in attendance at the drawing.
            c. A single slip of paper for each institution (with name or logo) will be placed in a container and will be drawn in order of seeding from highest to lowest.

In the event that scheduled regular season contests cannot be played as originally scheduled, every effort shall be made to reschedule such a contest at the earliest possible date, provided that such rescheduling does not interfere with classes, examination periods, NCAA rules, or other sports prohibitions. If contests cannot be rescheduled and in the event of a first-place tie, the Conference tiebreaker system will be utilized to determine championship game participants or a Conference Champion.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2019, 03:33:30 PM
https://big12sports.com/news/2008/7/31/1546006.aspx

 (https://big12sports.com/news/2008/7/31/1546006.aspx)good luck understanding it

I'm not sure what these lines mean, but I think in the case of our 3-way tie for first above, all 3 still remain tied, so it goes to point differential in games played between the tied teams? 
Quote
b.    If three or more teams are tied, steps 1 through 4 will be followed until a determination is made.  If only two teams remain tied after any step, the winner of the regular season game between the two tied teams shall prevail.
     1.    The Conference records of the three or more teams will be compared against each other in a “mini round-robin” format.
     2.    The Conference records of the three or more teams will be compared against the remaining team(s) in the Conference
            standings from top to bottom.
            a. When comparing against the remaining teams in the Conference standings any two-way ties will be broken by head-to-head
            competition before the comparison begins.
            b. If more than a two-way tie exists amongst the remaining teams in the Conference standings, the record against the collective
                tied teams as a group will be used.
     3.    Scoring differential among the tied teams. The team or teams with the lowest difference between points scored and points
             allowed in games vs. the tied teams is eliminated from consideration.

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 22, 2019, 03:56:29 PM
That'd be really lame.  It's the football equivalent of penalizing small-ball teams.

I'd rather consider sos, ooc record, almost anything, before looking at score differentials.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 22, 2019, 04:15:44 PM
That'd be really lame.  It's the football equivalent of penalizing small-ball teams.

I'd rather consider sos, ooc record, almost anything, before looking at score differentials. 
 Mike I'll tell em the SEC doesnt approve and Im sure they will change it
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on October 22, 2019, 05:05:34 PM
In case of a three way tie, you first compare the relative records of the three teams to each other. That won't help in our circular scenario of OU beating Texas beating Baylor beating OU. The records against each other are 1-1. No determination can be made.

According to the procedures, you'd then go to the 4th place team. Say it's oSu. Baylor and Texas have already beaten oSu. I suppose we're discussing the scenario where the 3 top teams all only have 1 conference loss, so obviously OU will have beaten them as well. With only 1 conference loss apiece, and in common, no further determinations could be made until point differentials.

However, if there's two conference losses apiece, then there's a possibility (actually likely) that two teams will have beaten a given team in the rankings and one will have lost. That places that losing team in 3rd, and allows head to head to determine the order against the other two. Notice that this procedure preferentially rewards a team for having a "better" win even though those teams must necessarily have a "worse" loss.

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 22, 2019, 11:37:16 PM
In case of a three way tie, you first compare the relative records of the three teams to each other. That won't help in our circular scenario of OU beating Texas beating Baylor beating OU. The records against each other are 1-1. No determination can be made.

According to the procedures, you'd then go to the 4th place team. Say it's oSu. Baylor and Texas have already beaten oSu. I suppose we're discussing the scenario where the 3 top teams all only have 1 conference loss, so obviously OU will have beaten them as well. With only 1 conference loss apiece, and in common, no further determinations could be made until point differentials.

However, if there's two conference losses apiece, then there's a possibility (actually likely) that two teams will have beaten a given team in the rankings and one will have lost. That places that losing team in 3rd, and allows head to head to determine the order against the other two. Notice that this procedure preferentially rewards a team for having a "better" win even though those teams must necessarily have a "worse" loss.



Thanks, that's what I came up with as well.  In the 1-1-1 tied for first place scenario, those other tie-breakers all end up being equivalent and therefore "don't cares" from a logic perspective.

Point differentials it is.  I guess we better beat Baylor by 50, then.  Let it be so.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2019, 08:50:16 AM
actually assuming OU remains unbeaten all we have to do is just win out baby

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 23, 2019, 08:55:33 AM
Oh I don't actually think Baylor is going to beat OU.

I also don't think Texas is going to win out.

But I suppose there's a reason they play the games...
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on October 23, 2019, 09:22:09 AM
Of course, I want the Texas defense to improve. However, I'd smile warmly if we followed OU's same path as last season. Lose the RRS (because that's already happened), fight uphill the entire season, win the rematch, and...

be told we're still not good enough to enter the CFP because, well, we lost to LSU.

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2019, 10:07:05 AM
Oh I don't actually think Baylor is going to beat OU.

I also don't think Texas is going to win out.

But I suppose there's a reason they play the games...
always with the negative waves


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU)
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on October 23, 2019, 10:53:26 AM
all we have to do is just win out

Welcome back.  I hope your coma went well.  Just to catch you up, we beat Kansas by 2 points last week.  And needed every second on the clock to do so.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2019, 11:15:29 AM
Of course, I want the Texas defense to improve. However, I'd smile warmly if we followed OU's same path as last season. Lose the RRS (because that's already happened), fight uphill the entire season, win the rematch, and...

be told we're still not good enough to enter the CFP because, well, we lost to LSU.


rooting for the Tigers and not the War Eagle this weekend
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2019, 11:26:27 AM
Welcome back.  I hope your coma went well.  Just to catch you up, we beat Kansas by 2 points last week.  And needed every second on the clock to do so.
more negative vibs
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on October 23, 2019, 11:33:26 AM
Welcome back.  I hope your coma went well.  Just to catch you up, we beat Kansas by 2 points last week.  And needed every second on the clock to do so.
And perhaps some extra seconds as well.

https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-kansas-game-clock-les-miles-field-goal-230223277.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-kansas-game-clock-les-miles-field-goal-230223277.html)
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: DevilFroggy on October 23, 2019, 11:37:12 AM
Mrs. DeTiger will be there.  Hopefully the Horns put on a good show.  No offense to DevilFroggy, if you're still around here 😎
I am, and you better believe I'm offended you bastage!

J/k, I hope the Mrs. enjoys herself regardless of the outcome.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 23, 2019, 01:06:07 PM
She got two free tickets given to her at the 45 yard line.  Wish I could've gone with her, but I went to the UT opener with her a few months ago and it did not go well for me, unfortunately.  Also I'm committed to something at my church this weekend.  So a friend of hers from the DFW area will get that extra ticket and they'll get to watch their Longhorns do battle with the Frogs.  Maybe it's better that another true Texas fan use the ticket anyway.  I'd just cause a lot of confusion with my purple and gold :-D
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2019, 01:16:25 PM
And perhaps some extra seconds as well.

https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-kansas-game-clock-les-miles-field-goal-230223277.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-kansas-game-clock-les-miles-field-goal-230223277.html)
CW I recorded the game and went back to look

Both times the Horns hurried to the line and the ball was snapped within 8 seconds of the previous tackle

I actually timed this 

It does not appear to me that there was anything wrong done

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 23, 2019, 02:10:07 PM
How would anybody take Les Miles' comments about anything time-management-related seriously anyway?  I guess you'd have to be an LSU fan to see the humor.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2019, 03:20:29 PM
or an Okie St fan from a few seasons past
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on October 23, 2019, 04:41:28 PM
There's always time for a last second Longhorn FG.
(Bo knows)
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2019, 04:44:06 PM
the game isn't over till the fat lady sings
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2019, 04:55:45 PM
Hey our FG kicker aint named Dick er for nothin
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on October 23, 2019, 08:19:45 PM
or an Okie St fan from a few seasons past
More than a few.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on October 23, 2019, 08:44:05 PM
TCU's alt unis for the game: https://twitter.com/i/status/1186674075118137344 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1186674075118137344).

Here's the story: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/look-tcus-wild-alternate-uniforms-vs-texas-will-have-horned-frogs-fans-seeing-red/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/look-tcus-wild-alternate-uniforms-vs-texas-will-have-horned-frogs-fans-seeing-red/).

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHgEsEYX4AIpNQ6?format=jpg&name=360x360)

I'm sure Bevo would be terrified if an angry horny toad were to squirt blood on his hoof.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 23, 2019, 09:00:32 PM
TCU's alt unis for the game: https://twitter.com/i/status/1186674075118137344 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1186674075118137344).

Here's the story: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/look-tcus-wild-alternate-uniforms-vs-texas-will-have-horned-frogs-fans-seeing-red/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/look-tcus-wild-alternate-uniforms-vs-texas-will-have-horned-frogs-fans-seeing-red/).

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHgEsEYX4AIpNQ6?format=jpg&name=360x360)

I'm sure Bevo would be terrified if an angry horny toad were to squirt blood on his hoof.
naw he'd just stomp him into the ground and eat more hay
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 25, 2019, 07:39:53 AM
It ain't like an elephant being afraid of a mouse.  Bevo don't care.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/175fcfd63c9142341061b78ea33e40b8/tenor.gif?itemid=13186388)
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 25, 2019, 07:40:50 AM
Those alt unis are horrid by the way.

SDF-- WTF?
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on October 25, 2019, 07:54:56 AM
I guess I needed to find an "I'm being facetious" emoji.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on October 25, 2019, 08:59:50 AM
Those alt unis are horrid by the way

This is what happens when you aren't in a real conference.  Hints of Conference USA pop up all over the place from P5 pretender schools.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: DevilFroggy on October 25, 2019, 01:10:41 PM
Those alt unis are horrid by the way.

SDF-- WTF?
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/xT0GqfvuVpNqEf3z2w/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 26, 2019, 11:46:07 PM
Based solely on zero deep thinking and solely off my reactionary weekly viewing combined with Tulip's comments over the past few years, Herman might wanna be honestly evaluating Orlando. 

Didn't get to watch this today, maybe I will later, just looking at box score, drive chart, and listening to Mrs. DeTiger in attendance, Orlando's performance in Austin so far doesn't match what his trajectory in Houston would've suggested. 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on October 27, 2019, 12:15:02 AM
Herman might wanna be honestly evaluating Orlando.

I never understood fans' propensity to micromanage.  Fans need to go after Herman.  Herman can respond to that however he sees fit.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 27, 2019, 03:44:56 PM
Why go after Herman if Orlando is indeed the problem?  No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, if that's the scenario in Austin. 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on October 27, 2019, 03:52:24 PM
I think we need a congressional inquiry
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on October 27, 2019, 05:23:02 PM
Why go after Herman if Orlando is indeed the problem?

If there's any problem, it's Herman's problem.

Truth is, I wasn't enamored with the hiring of Herman, but at the time I couldn't think of any potential hire who would enamor me.  And it got rid of Charlie, which was all that mattered.  So I gave Herman a chance.

As I watched his pressers, he begins to seem kind of arrogant.  But what the heck.  Then he mocks the Missouri QB, prancing up and down THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS sideline apeing like a drunk frat boy.  NOT Texas standard.  Frankly, not anybody's standard.  What millionaire D1 coach does that??  But we won 10 games last year.  So again, what the heck.  I guess...

But hell no.  He's a snarky dickhead, and he better beat TCU.

So anyway, recruits will start bailing out now, more players will enter the portal, and it appears evident we aren't making ball players out of Hermy's own recruits.

This ain't our last loss of the season.  Wait till Baylor finishes with us, with their 2nd year coach.  And Iowa State?

The good news - our new, rock star AD didn't hire him.  And likely just suffers his lack of charm like the rest of us do.  A good guy deserves a chance to fix things.  Herman does not fall in the "good guy" category.  The way he presents himself, he better win.

If we don't win at least 8, CDC will bust a move.  And not a single Texas-Ex will complain.  This ain't nice guy Charlie we're dealing with here.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on October 27, 2019, 07:02:15 PM
If there's any problem, it's Herman's problem.

Truth is, I wasn't enamored with the hiring of Herman, but at the time I couldn't think of any potential hire who would enamor me.  And it got rid of Charlie, which was all that mattered.  So I gave Herman a chance.

As I watched his pressers, he begins to seem kind of arrogant.  But what the heck.  Then he mocks the Missouri QB, prancing up and down THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS sideline apeing like a drunk frat boy.  NOT Texas standard.  Frankly, not anybody's standard.  What millionaire D1 coach does that??  But we won 10 games last year.  So again, what the heck.  I guess...

But hell no.  He's a snarky dickhead, and he better beat TCU.

So anyway, recruits will start bailing out now, more players will enter the portal, and it appears evident we aren't making ball players out of Hermy's own recruits.

This ain't our last loss of the season.  Wait till Baylor finishes with us, with their 2nd year coach.  And Iowa State?

The good news - our new, rock star AD didn't hire him.  And likely just suffers his lack of charm like the rest of us do.  A good guy deserves a chance to fix things.  Herman does not fall in the "good guy" category.  The way he presents himself, he better win.

If we don't win at least 8, CDC will bust a move.  And not a single Texas-Ex will complain.  This ain't nice guy Charlie we're dealing with here.
I get this.  It's a good point.  The HFC hired the DC, so if the DC isn't cutting it, it's on the HFC.
We ran into that same problem when our DC was Mike Stoops.  Unfortunately, the HFC was Bob Stoops, who was not a snarky dickhead (most of the time, anyway), and had won a Natty, and who visited sick kids in hospitals and did other good deeds, all behind the scenes.  So we focused our ire on Mikey.
I wonder about hiring Houston coaches.  Maybe it takes a dickhead to succeed at Houston.  A Bill Yeoman, a Jack Pardee, or an Art Briles, not a Major Applewhite.  I think Dana "we're just going to tank this year" Holgorsen fits in there well.
I will be very surprised if Texas doesn't win 8 games.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on October 27, 2019, 07:51:33 PM
I can't see a path to 8 wins this year. 6 wins is looking way more likely than 8.  This is the absolute worst defense I've ever seen at Texas.  And I can't believe I'm saying that after the disaster that was Charlie Strong's tenure.

Anyway, congrats to SDF and the TCU Frogs.  Best of luck the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2019, 04:41:51 AM
It is "interesting" (and irrelevant) that the Texas losses hurt LSU's pedigree, but LSU moved up to Numero Uno in one poll (which is irrelevant too).  It hurts Oklahoma as well, as one of their marquis wins is now tainted.  Baylor just doesn't have the Helmet even if they are very good.

This is the part of the season where folks start trying to employ syllogism.  It doesn't work very well.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on October 28, 2019, 07:49:48 AM
If there's any problem, it's Herman's problem.

Truth is, I wasn't enamored with the hiring of Herman, but at the time I couldn't think of any potential hire who would enamor me.  And it got rid of Charlie, which was all that mattered.  So I gave Herman a chance.

As I watched his pressers, he begins to seem kind of arrogant.  But what the heck.  Then he mocks the Missouri QB, prancing up and down THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS sideline apeing like a drunk frat boy.  NOT Texas standard.  Frankly, not anybody's standard.  What millionaire D1 coach does that??  But we won 10 games last year.  So again, what the heck.  I guess...

But hell no.  He's a snarky dickhead, and he better beat TCU.

So anyway, recruits will start bailing out now, more players will enter the portal, and it appears evident we aren't making ball players out of Hermy's own recruits.

This ain't our last loss of the season.  Wait till Baylor finishes with us, with their 2nd year coach.  And Iowa State?

The good news - our new, rock star AD didn't hire him.  And likely just suffers his lack of charm like the rest of us do.  A good guy deserves a chance to fix things.  Herman does not fall in the "good guy" category.  The way he presents himself, he better win.

If we don't win at least 8, CDC will bust a move.  And not a single Texas-Ex will complain.  This ain't nice guy Charlie we're dealing with here.


As a fan, I kind of get this, and there's definitely coaches I've liked better than others.

On the other hand, how much a dick a guy is or how much I like him doesn't change the coach he is, and I can't help but think it's irrational to change one's evaluation based on how much you like or don't like a coach.  

I don't make those kinds of decisions, but I'd first give him the chance to correct that problem.  Don't think I'd be willing to run him off just yet.  If I were the AD I'd make him aware of my concerns and then let him live or die by his action/inaction.  Whether he chooses to stick with Orlando or not, and if so, Orlando better get it fixed, or he as the head coach made the wrong call and he's gone.  Or whether he chooses to ditch Orlando and hire somebody else, in which case THEY better get it right, or it was the wrong call and he's gone.  

I dunno.  I'm neither the one who makes those decisions nor a fan of the team it concerns.  Just my $0.02 as a neutral observer.  If he were coaching my team, I see enough things I like about him I'd hope he'd get a chance to fix the defense.  Of course, if he were the coach of my team I'd also be calling for his head on a platter at this point, so there's that.  Fandom necessarily colors everything, we're kidding ourselves if we think it doesn't.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on October 31, 2019, 05:38:19 PM
Everything is definitely not fine. That's easily seen and understood.

The question, then, becomes what Todd Orlando should be doing differently than he has. If you're going to advocate firing someone, you can't simply say, "The results aren't what we want.". You should be able to point to actual mistakes that shouldn't have occurred. Otherwise, you're not solving any problems. You're just venting blame.

Remember the beginning of the season when Texas knew it was replacing 8 members of its defense. We knew those replacements had spent time in the program, and were more veteran than their status conferred. Well, against KSU, we're getting back FOUR STARTERS out of that group from injury. That means replacements for the replacements have been playing some or all the games since oSu.

For further thought, go back and see the roster attrition on the defensive side for the last season of the Charlie Strong regime and the first year of the Tom Herman era. Kids leaving when the coach is fired is to be expected, and that happened. Texas still hasn't built that particular cupboard back up yet.

Big 12 offenses are cruel. Orlando may indeed be managing a disaster by just trying to keep pieces from breaking worse. I'm not swearing that he shouldn't be questioned. I'm just saying that it's easy to rail on the coach when results aren't up to our expectations. I'm saying those expectations might not be reachable by anyone given the current facts.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 01, 2019, 03:13:44 PM
Finding a way to make his charges tackle would be an obvious start.  I mean, I can detail you a few key things that I'd be specifically bitching at Orlando for if he were my DC, but I don't want it to seem like I'm piling on.  But just start with the basics...like tackling.  It was bad in game 1 when I saw them in person, it was bad the next week against LSU, and didn't get much better from there.  That is fixable within a season, but it hasn't been.  

Offenses everywhere are cruel.  There's no harbor in the Big 12 these days with over half of cfb running some type of RPO spread that gives defenses fits.  

Orlando hasn't been impressive in his 2.5 years at UT, and you can only give a guy so much rope.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2019, 04:11:07 PM
oh, you can ALWAYS give a guy more rope
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 04, 2019, 09:05:54 AM
Well, yes, but should you?  

From the outside looking in, seems offense and a lot of operational aspects of the program look good.  I wouldn't be breaking out pitchforks for Herman or anything.  The defense seems to have underperformed too often....there is a guy whose job that is.  That might be overly simplistic.  I'm a simple guy.  

It's all academic anyway.  I'm not a Texas fan, I just live with one.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 04, 2019, 09:17:16 AM
Well, yes, but should you? 

Texas has to get 7 wins for Herman to see another year.  And I'm telling you, 6-6 could happen.

Charlie Strong only got 3 years.  This is year 3 for Herman.
CDC did not hire Herman, and he is not a fan (tailgate gossip).

Truth is, Herman should still be working off his rough edges at Houston or some other non-P5.  Strong made everybody at Texas jump too fast, and I don't blame us for that.  But 6 wins at TEXAS won't get it for an unpolished HC who did a mockery dance in a bowl game.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on November 04, 2019, 11:05:01 AM
dont agree
he gets another year no matter what
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 04, 2019, 03:13:10 PM
Charlie Strong never hit 10 wins nor get to the Sugar Bowl nor win it against a Top 5 team nor finish in the Top 10.

Comparing the two seems.... really weird.  6-6 would most certainly get him to year 4 but you better believe the hook would be quick after that.

Still I can certainly understand and share the frustration.  For sure this year's defense has been a disaster, and the special teams are arguably worse.  Something needs to change.

It's not my job to determine exactly what that is, but I can tell you I make similar decisions at work every single day-- except I do that in my own areas of expertise.  I'm not paid to coach football.  Tom Herman is.  And he's paid at a level where the expectations are 10-win seasons, conference championships, and competing nationally at the highest level.  This season, that's not happening.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 04, 2019, 03:25:13 PM
I admit I have a non-football bias against Herman.

When he gave his sideline performance at the nationally broadcast Sugar Bowl - I said to myself, "he damn sure better win football games".

6-6 is not damn sure winning.

Charlie may not be the best coach around, but he wouldn't have pulled that stunt.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on November 04, 2019, 05:07:43 PM
I liked Charlie Strong, and I think if we would have stuck with him, he would have eventually learned to win games at Texas. Let's be honest though. He never was well liked by a majority of the power brokers at Texas. Steve Patterson wasn't popular, and Strong was a "whaddya mean Saban said no?" stopgap.

Texas short circuited the learning curve by hiring a guy in Tom Herman who had already done his time as a student of the best teachers the game has. It was also fortunate that he's a Texas homer and really wanted the job. He still has an education deficit, because the only way to learn is to do it, and there's no experience the same as being Texas' head coach. Texas has already paid for some of his education. There will probably be some more, but the overall likelihood is that he'll continue to improve.

Texas gets up to four defensive starters back for the KSU game. I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made. I'm saying subtracting four from anyone's starting roster is going to lead to pain. TCU found our true freshman safety during crunch time and threw at him. I doubt Orlando had him there to gain experience.

Right now, I want to enjoy these last four games, and hopefully do well enough to play in the Big 12 CCG. Whatever happens after that, I hope it's after a really swell NYE party. I want to find out that Sam Cosmi is going to stay at Texas. Since he's currently the only underclassman for whom leaving early is in the realm of sanity, I hope everyone else just stays sane.


Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on November 04, 2019, 05:31:27 PM
for what its worth

UT is favored by 6 against the cats
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 04, 2019, 05:53:06 PM
Not worth much. 

Here's hoping for something that doesn't look like a complete disaster.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on November 04, 2019, 10:53:34 PM
I liked Charlie Strong, and I think if we would have stuck with him, he would have eventually learned to win games at Texas. Let's be honest though. He never was well liked by a majority of the power brokers at Texas. Steve Patterson wasn't popular, and Strong was a "whaddya mean Saban said no?" stopgap.

Texas short circuited the learning curve by hiring a guy in Tom Herman who had already done his time as a student of the best teachers the game has. It was also fortunate that he's a Texas homer and really wanted the job. He still has an education deficit, because the only way to learn is to do it, and there's no experience the same as being Texas' head coach. Texas has already paid for some of his education. There will probably be some more, but the overall likelihood is that he'll continue to improve.

Texas gets up to four defensive starters back for the KSU game. I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made. I'm saying subtracting four from anyone's starting roster is going to lead to pain. TCU found our true freshman safety during crunch time and threw at him. I doubt Orlando had him there to gain experience.

Right now, I want to enjoy these last four games, and hopefully do well enough to play in the Big 12 CCG. Whatever happens after that, I hope it's after a really swell NYE party. I want to find out that Sam Cosmi is going to stay at Texas. Since he's currently the only underclassman for whom leaving early is in the realm of sanity, I hope everyone else just stays sane.
I think this is basically on the mark, except . . . .
Mack Brown didn't have a 3-year learning curve at UT.  He started his streak of 11 seasons with 9 or more wins in his first year.
John Mackovic, he of song and story, went 8-4 his 3rd year and 10-2-1 his 4th.
Fred Akers went 11-1 his 1st year.
Darrell Royal went 9-2 his 3rd year.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 05, 2019, 09:10:50 AM
I liked Charlie Strong, and I think if we would have stuck with him, he would have eventually learned to win games at Texas. Let's be honest though. He never was well liked by a majority of the power brokers at Texas.

Sorry Tulip, nothing bears any of that out.

1) I don't know what kind of evidence you need - is Charlie at USF not enough for you?  They went undefeated before he took them over.  He made Texas look like a Div-II disaster.  He would "eventually" win at Texas?  Only in the broken clock sense I guess.

2) Charlie was defended to the hilt - far beyond normal coach defense protocol.  Sure, Red didn't pick him, and Red was right.  Charlie was given a chance to prove Red wrong.  He was never close.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 05, 2019, 09:11:28 AM
UT is favored by 6 against the cats

You gotta be kidding me.

K-State is gonna roll us.  The K-State locker room has what we don't have.  Fight.  Fire.  Piss. Vinegar.

Oh, and coaching.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 05, 2019, 09:27:05 AM
You gotta be kidding me.

K-State is gonna roll us.  The K-State locker room has what we don't have.  Fight.  Fire.  Piss. Vinegar.

Oh, and coaching.


I disagree, this Texas team has plenty of fight.  They're just not very good.  Especially the defense and special teams.

I think LSU and Oklahoma are proving to be much better teams than Texas, yet the Horns hung in there 'til the end.  The KU near-loss was atrocious but the team didn't pack it in, they kept fighting and kicked a last-second game-winner.  I guess maybe you could say the team quit toward the end of the TCU game?  The defense certainly seemed to, but they also just flat-out suck, so I don't think I can pin it solely on attitude.

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 05, 2019, 10:28:22 AM
The more we have the benefit of hindsight, the more Strong's showing at Lul'ville appears to have been more related to Teddy Bridgewater.  I can't believe the Saints reeled off 5 wins and one of those at Seattle without Brees.  

Reminds me of when LSU hired Curly Hallman in the 90's because of his success at Southern Miss.  You who are old enough and paid attention remember what happened to LSU on account of that.  Oops, turns out Hallman sucked, he just happened to have some kid at USM named Favre.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2019, 11:05:05 AM
Teddy has a noodle arm, but that's good enough at Louisville1
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on November 05, 2019, 11:37:32 AM
You gotta be kidding me.

K-State is gonna roll us.  The K-State locker room has what we don't have.  Fight.  Fire.  Piss. Vinegar.

Oh, and coaching.

No team is ever as good as they seem nor as bad as they seem

We have a good fit against KS

and incidentally UT has no lack of will to win

youre such a bandwagon fan


Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on November 05, 2019, 11:49:25 AM
I'm putting more credence in the (hopefully) four returning defensive starters, plus Jordan Whittington, to change Texas' fortunes.

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on November 05, 2019, 11:51:22 AM
I'm putting more credence in the (hopefully) four returning defensive starters, plus Jordan Whittington, to change Texas' fortunes.


Its amazing what getting back 5 starters will do
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 05, 2019, 11:55:31 AM
Teddy has a noodle arm, but that's good enough at Louisville1

Evidently good enough in New Orleans too.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 05, 2019, 11:56:07 AM
Its amazing what getting back 5 starters will do


Yeah, no kidding.

At least nobody f**king boo'd your players when they got injured for a month.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 05, 2019, 01:24:05 PM
The KU near-loss was atrocious but the team didn't pack it in, they kept fighting and kicked a last-second game-winner.

Lack of fight spared us a 4 TD victory over Kansas.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 05, 2019, 04:25:18 PM
Lack of fight spared us a 4 TD victory over Kansas.
Nah, having a really shitty defense and even shittier special teams cost us a 4 TD victory over Kansas.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 05, 2019, 04:27:10 PM

Yeah, no kidding.

At least nobody f**king boo'd your players when they got injured for a month. 
I sure hope the guy who keeled over at the same time as his teammate, then popped right up when he saw another dude took a dive on the same play, recovered quickly.  Thoughts and prayers for him and his family.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on November 06, 2019, 01:08:45 AM
I liked Charlie Strong, and I think if we would have stuck with him, he would have eventually learned to win games at Texas. Let's be honest though. He never was well liked by a majority of the power brokers at Texas. Steve Patterson wasn't popular, and Strong was a "whaddya mean Saban said no?" stopgap.


I disagree.  Trust me, I've seen a lot of baaad football and severely under performing coaches (see Texas A&M under Dennis Franchione, Mike Sherman, and Kevin Sumlin) over the last 20 years, and Strong was definitely in that category.  Undisciplined, finding ways to lose, making the same stupid mistakes over and over.  Heck, didn't they lose a game by straight up missing the XP at the end?  Franchione almost lost to ARMY, and did lose to Baylor, when Baylor was bad.  Sometimes it's not just a talent gap, but that's hard to quantify.  

Since I've become a college football fan in the mid-90's I've made an observation:  A CFB coach, for the most part, will be all he's ever going to be by year 3.  There are a few cases where coaches have been extremely mediocre for 3-5 years and then suddenly broke the ceiling of 9-10 wins, but for the most part if they're not winning big by year 3 they probably never will.  

I admit my logic is flawed because so few coaches will stick around, even voluntarily or involuntarily after either a successful 3 year stint at a smaller school or an unsuccessful 3 year stint at a Helmet school.  See Herman, Tom and Sumlin, Kevin at UH for the successful part.  Or Ron Zook and Charlie Strong for the unsuccessful part.  

The stats get even more skewed at the big time programs like Ohio St and OU.  But when I think of all the majorly successful coaches most of them were winning 9-10 games by year three and most importantly, consistently winning 9-10 games.  

The one exception I'm going to make is for a HC to take over a highly successful program.  If a new HC takes over you have to give him 3-4 years to figure out how good he really is because a lot of teams are riding on the skills of the previous HC for a few years after he leaves.  For example, Lincoln Riley at OU right now is considered one of the best but he's mostly doing it with players Bob Stoops recruited and developed.  Of course he's still got them rolling in year 3 but IMO he hasn't faced real adversity yet because the schedule just isn't that tough.  Still, losing to a not-that-great KSU squad showed some kinks in the armor.  


Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2019, 07:23:53 AM
How much is the coach and how much is the QB?

A great CFB QB can mask a lot of weaknesses otherwise against decent but not great teams.  Most of the top teams have a great QB, some of them have what appear to be great coaches, but the latter might come from the former.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 06, 2019, 08:13:11 AM
How much is the coach and how much is the QB?

Where are Bama's past QB's?
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2019, 09:48:09 AM
I sure hope the guy who keeled over at the same time as his teammate, then popped right up when he saw another dude took a dive on the same play, recovered quickly.  Thoughts and prayers for him and his family.

I don't know what you're talking about, but bravo, you've picked ONE out of the SEVEN guys who went down during that game, four of whom couldn't play again for four weeks, two of whom were gimpy following the UT game, ALL of whom got boo'd.

Burnt Orange mofo a-holes.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on November 06, 2019, 10:39:07 AM
Mike

The crowd wasnt booing because they thought a player was injured

They booed over what looked like fake cramp injuries

Please note the only team suffering these cramps was LSU and LSU only

suffered these cramps on defense and only suffered them during an extended

Texas drive 

Now its time to turn the page

Horns lost and LSU won end of story
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2019, 10:49:25 AM
I'm sure you think that excuses it.  

Your crowd evidently can't tell a fake cramp from an injury.  Hint:  When guys stay down and don't come back on the field--and bonus by this point...when you can see in hindsight they didn't come back for several games--they probably weren't faking!  

If you want to see what an actual fake looks like, take a look at the Auburn guy in the LSU game....he's fine, gets lined up, looks over at the sideline, falls down very carefully, and then is back the next play.  utee94 said one such play happened in the Texas game.  Fair enough....I've detailed extensively at this point that 7 players went down, only six missed time.  I'm happy to concede the 7th guy was faking, even though it's entirely possibly he cramped up.  God for forbid Texans understood anything about biology or chemistry and the difference in playing in the dry Austin heat compared to what they're used to.  Extra hint:  the team not accustomed to playing in the dry heat is likely to cramp more.  Don't blame me, blame science.  

Doesn't change the point they all got boo'd.  

And since I always would rather err on the side of caution when we're talking about health, I do not pretend to know for sure that the Auburn kid was faking it, and I'm glad that he did not get boo'd by the LSU crowd.  

Booing kids who could even possibly be injured is some bullshit.  

I had long back and forths with my friend TexasBuddy after this game, he was pretty put out by all the faking injuries, no matter what I told him.  Finally he had the stomach to go back and watch the game, after which he called me to say that on a rewatch, it was pretty obvious they weren't faking.  Fans get emotional in the moment and that's normal.  That's why it's good to have some ground rules going into it....like don't boo kids who could be injured.  It's just decent.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 06, 2019, 10:54:44 AM

MDT still got bunched drawers.

And I never heard Austin called "dry heat".
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 06, 2019, 11:11:57 AM
Damn right I do.

I live in Texas and am surrounded by a bunch of idiots who spout this same stupid stuff over and over.  I read ridiculous things about that game and it annoys me.  I expected better here, but whatever.  

Texas had a bunch of guys hurt recently, it wouldn't sit well with you if people had added 100k insults to their injury.  Fortunately that wasn't the case for them.  Getting hurt and having to miss part of their season was plenty enough, I'm sure.  


Austin is not dry heat compared to, say, San Diego.  Compared to BR/NOLA?  It's a desert.  Even I had trouble there at the La. Tech opener, and I previously lived in Austin for many years.  And I wasn't doing anything but sitting in the stands.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2019, 11:31:17 AM
The Texas-LSU fake cramping thread is over there  ------->

Good Lord that game was two months ago.  And y'all won.  Sorest winners I've seen on a message board in all my long years.

And no MDT, I'm not talking specifically about you, there were plenty of dick-hole LSU fans on the Longhorn message boards, lingering for weeks to defend your coach's absolute lies and fabrication about not having any air conditioning in the visitor's locker room, even after facilities records were released via FOI Act and proved him to be a complete lying asshole.

I have no idea why you of all people keep bringing this up.  Take your win, leave us to our misery.  JFC I can't believe I'm having to say this.  Again.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 06, 2019, 11:40:25 AM
it wouldn't sit well with you if people had added 100k insults to their injury.

We don't think a lot of LSU - and it's a well deserved reputation.  Remember, we aren't drinking SEC koolaid over here, so we call it like it is.  When LSU defenders start falling over while Texas is rolling downfield, we make assumptions.  I'm sorry LSU has earned those type of assumptions.

Enjoy your little rivalry with the Aggies.  What a joke.  Two degree-factory turds floating in a commode proclaiming to be rivals.

Dry heat is much more bearable than swamp heat.  Although
Austin is neither, and by some Texas standards, would be considered humid.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2019, 01:33:40 PM
^^^^^^^^

T95 is speaking for himself on that.  I like LSU.  I was happy to play them and will be happy to play them again next year.  I hope our defense isn't so shitty next year and that we actually try to field a special teams unit.

I know that LSU doesn't view the Aggies as a rival and never will.  Most Aggies I know enjoy playing LSU but don't consider them a rival, either.  It takes scores of years to develop that, and the gap from those games in the 80s/early 90s til 2012 was pretty large so it didn't really bridge, especially with younger Ags.

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on November 06, 2019, 02:08:15 PM
I have no dog in this fight, nor did I watch much of the game, so I don't have an opinion.

But this . . .


Quote
Dry heat is much more bearable than swamp heat.


This is true.  Dry heat is, as we humans perceive it, cooler, because you get more evaporative cooling than you get when playing in humid heat.  You do have to keep hydrated, though.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 06, 2019, 04:07:46 PM
Most Aggies I know enjoy playing LSU but don't consider them a rival, either.

You haven't darkened the door of a bookstore in College Station lately.

T-shirts go for miles with LSU and A&M helmets facing off.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on November 06, 2019, 05:07:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gVzqETH.png)
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2019, 05:55:03 PM
It's almost as if Texas and A&M are still rivals...
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on November 06, 2019, 08:22:28 PM
It's almost as if Texas and A&M are still rivals...
Maybe they can play in a bowl game some year and reminisce about old times.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on November 06, 2019, 09:01:36 PM
^^^^^^^^

T95 is speaking for himself on that.  I like LSU.  I was happy to play them and will be happy to play them again next year.  I hope our defense isn't so shitty next year and that we actually try to field a special teams unit.

I know that LSU doesn't view the Aggies as a rival and never will.  Most Aggies I know enjoy playing LSU but don't consider them a rival, either.  It takes scores of years to develop that, and the gap from those games in the 80s/early 90s til 2012 was pretty large so it didn't really bridge, especially with younger Ags.
I think that in order to consider somebody your rival it might take some time, and losing to them a bunch, or losing to them at an inopportune time as well.  

For example, last years 7 OT game was bad for LSU, but imagine what would happen if LSU beats Bama this week but then loses to A&M at home, knocking them out of title contention.  Mucho bad blood will flow. 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 06, 2019, 09:04:42 PM

Sure, but Nebraska lost to Texas 9 out of 10 times in the B12, oftentimes in gut-wrenching fashion, and still I don't think many Huskers would view Texas as a "rival."  Perhaps a "hated opponent" or something, but not a rival.  

As far as I know, Nebraska really only has one of those.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on November 06, 2019, 09:33:42 PM
I think including the other teams name in your fight song probably is the deciding factor 

I would go so far as to say there arent many other rivalries that do that
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on November 07, 2019, 05:39:11 AM
So are you saying that A&M is Texas's biggest rival then? 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on November 07, 2019, 05:45:37 AM
Sure, but Nebraska lost to Texas 9 out of 10 times in the B12, oftentimes in gut-wrenching fashion, and still I don't think many Huskers would view Texas as a "rival."  Perhaps a "hated opponent" or something, but not a rival. 

As far as I know, Nebraska really only has one of those. 
This is probably an unpopular opinion among other Aggies but I would have to say that A&M and Tech developed quite the rivalry with each other during the entire time we were in the Big 12, with Tech getting the better of us overall during that time ( Not sure of the spread but I'm sure it was 60/40 tech).  
Do you remember when Tech beat us sometime around '05 or '06 and Leach said after the game "Sometimes a pirate beats a soldier"?  It drove Techsters wild, and drove Aggies mad.  
I always thought that Leach would have been wildly successful at A&M if we would have ever had the balls to hire him and he had the want to leave Tech (of course no way we could have hired him after the scandal that got him fired).  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 07, 2019, 08:17:15 AM
So are you saying that A&M is Texas's biggest rival then? 

Some Texas fans would say that.  The majority have typically held OU as the biggest rival, but up until 2012 maybe 1/3 of Texas fans considered A&M to be the bigger rival.  That number has of course dwindled since the Aggies departed for the SEC and the teams no longer play in football.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on November 07, 2019, 08:33:02 AM
aggie used to be our biggest rival but when they ran away I think OU filled that position
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 07, 2019, 11:06:55 AM
aggie used to be our biggest rival but when they ran away I think OU filled that position

Just depends on who you talked to.

On every Longhorn message board I've ever been on before the Ags departed (which goes back to 1995 and includes austin360.com, Hookem.com, insidetexas, orangebloods, hornfans, and shaggybevo), any time this poll would come up it would end up about 2/3 in favor of OU as our biggest rival, and 1/3 as A&M.  With a few old farts writing-in Arkansas, of course! :)

Now I'll admit that's not entirely scientific and it could be argued that internet message boards aren't a representative sample for a variety of reasons, including and especially the fact that the age demos skew younger than the actual fan base, but it's about all we have, and from my anecdotal sampling of family and friends, it's pretty much spot-on.

Even my parents who graduated from UT in 1963/1964 consider OU to be the bigger rival.  


Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 07, 2019, 02:46:15 PM
This is probably an unpopular opinion among other Aggies but I would have to say that A&M and Tech developed quite the rivalry with each other during the entire time we were in the Big 12, with Tech getting the better of us overall during that time ( Not sure of the spread but I'm sure it was 60/40 tech).

Tech didn't know how to win with class.  And frankly, Aggies saw it as way beneath them to lose to Tech.  So mix these two together, and the hate simmered.

But with that being said, A&M would never dignify Tech as being a "rival".

The LSU rivalry thing is a manufactured rivalry.  Those never work.  Rivalries manifest from the inside-out.  Not from the outside-in.

For Texas to join the SEC would be as good for the Aggies as for Texas.  First off, you can bet the Longhorn Network would be gone if this were to happen.  Secondly, one *real* rivalry would be restored, and A&M wouldn't be playing foreigners every week.  But in trademarked Aggie tradition, A&M will shoot itself in the foot in order to spite Texas.  A&M would never vote Texas in the SEC.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Mr Tulip on November 07, 2019, 04:29:00 PM
If I recall correctly, aTm and LSU used to have quite the string of non-con contests going before the Big 12 even came about.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on November 07, 2019, 07:35:59 PM
Sure, but Nebraska lost to Texas 9 out of 10 times in the B12, oftentimes in gut-wrenching fashion, and still I don't think many Huskers would view Texas as a "rival."  Perhaps a "hated opponent" or something, but not a rival. 

As far as I know, Nebraska really only has one of those.
As far as I know, you are correct.
If the Huskers stay in the B1G for another 40 years, and get back to something resembling their 1970-1997 excellence, they might develop a rivalry with Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on November 07, 2019, 11:10:40 PM
I agree, Rivalry's can't be manufactured.  Which is why it takes the other team winning a few, or winning one that sticks you and hurts you for a long time, to make a true rivalry.  Just like last year's 7 OT victory where LSU had the game won 3-4 times but the refs kept helping us out.  Money well spent in my opinion.  ;)

I've always thought though that it has a lot to do with the various alumni and fanbases rubbing elbows at places like work, church, etc where the true rivalry's are born.  Everybody loves to rib their buddy when your team beats theirs and hates to be ribbed when you lose.  Where I live and work there are actually quite a few LSU alums and Louisiana transplants who pull for LSU so there is sort of a natural rivalry but A&M just hasn't won enough games to really get it simmering.  I look for that to change in the near future.  We do have a lot of history with LSU as a non-conference opponent with 57 total games played and them having a 12 game advantage over us.  In the 90's we were really putting the hurt on them until they canceled the last few remaining games allegedly due to the SEC changing format (CCG and expanding to 12 members). 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2019, 07:55:48 AM
Those 80s/90s A&M-LSU games were great.  I went to one with a girl I was dating at TAMU in...1991?  !992?  That was a fun weekend...



Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 08, 2019, 08:21:40 AM

If I recall correctly, aTm and LSU used to have quite the string of non-con contests going before the Big 12 even came about.

Yes, and A&M has played Rice even more than LSU.  Point?
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 08, 2019, 08:24:37 AM
I've always thought though that it has a lot to do with the various alumni and fanbases rubbing elbows at places like work, church, etc where the true rivalry's are born.

Of course it is.  This is why I don't see how you guys are having any fun.  Are you in a great conference?  Well...yes.  But it's a hollow bragging right.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2019, 08:40:26 AM
That's why rivalries have traditionally been almost exclusively regional.  There's got to be more to it than just the game itself, for fans to consider it a rivalry.  It's an emotional thing, not a cerebral one.



Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on November 08, 2019, 09:00:34 AM
It's an emotional thing, not a cerebral one.

And certainly not a marketing thing.  You can't market a rivalry into existence.  Sometimes us sheep just won't line up the way the media and big business would like us to.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2019, 11:02:46 AM
And certainly not a marketing thing.  You can't market a rivalry into existence.  Sometimes us sheep just won't line up the way the media and big business would like us to.

I agree with one notable exception: USC-Notre Dame is a 100% manufactured marketing rivalry. But it's still definitely a rivalry, my friends in either of those two fan bases definitely don't like the opposite school, at all.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on November 08, 2019, 12:18:03 PM
Yep.  Notre Dame-USC is THE one great non-organic rivalry.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2019, 12:49:01 PM
the only thing great about it is the non-organic
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 08, 2019, 03:41:04 PM
I love that rivalry.  It's an important part of the fabric of college football, the "color and pageantry" of it all.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on November 08, 2019, 03:59:38 PM
Of course it is.  This is why I don't see how you guys are having any fun.  Are you in a great conference?  Well...yes.  But it's a hollow bragging right.
BC you’re so full of shit and totally presumptuous about what Aggies think. I personally work with many more LSU fans and alums than UT fans and alums it’s not even close. By your logic there wouldn’t be any rivalry between OU and UT because “ I don’t see how you guys are having any fun” when OU made Texas it’s whipping boy circa 2000-present.  

Sure, we’re still getting our footing here in the SEC and have a way to go but things are developing here.  Watch what happens in late Nov if we knock LSU out of the CFP.  We won’t be favored and will likely be 2 TD dogs but I think this I should why we play the games, no?
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2019, 04:11:18 PM
Is there another significant CFB rivalry between teams from non-contiguous states (or the same state)?  (Leave ND out.)  I can't think of one.

I think one requisite is to play often, if not every year.  I guess Florida-LSU is something of a rivalry, but contrived by scheduling.  Texas-Nebraska was once a great series.  If I'm forgetting one, it's because there aren't many of them.

Play nearly every year
Geographic proximity
Some level of consistent national importance (usually)


Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on November 08, 2019, 07:27:03 PM
Is there another significant CFB rivalry between teams from non-contiguous states (or the same state)?  (Leave ND out.)  I can't think of one.

I think one requisite is to play often, if not every year.  I guess Florida-LSU is something of a rivalry, but contrived by scheduling.  Texas-Nebraska was once a great series.  If I'm forgetting one, it's because there aren't many of them.

Play nearly every year
Geographic proximity
Some level of consistent national importance (usually)
As far as I could tell, Texas-Nebraska was not a great series.  More like a miserable experience for Nebraska over its time in the Big 12.  They've played 14 times, and Texas leads 10-4.  Nebraska led 3-1 in the 4-game OOC "series" that was spread out over 42 years.  The Big 12 record was Texas 9-1.  The 9 Texas wins included 8 heartbreakers for the Huskers.

1996, first-ever Big 12 CCG: Texas 37, Nebraska 27
1998: Texas 20, Nebraska 16
1999: Texas 24, Nebraska 20
1999, Big 12 CCG: Nebraska 22, Texas 6
2002: Texas 27, Nebraska 24
2003: Texas 31, Nebraska 7
2006: Texas 22, Nebraska 20
2007: Texas 28, Nebraska 25
2009, Big 12 CCG: Texas 13, Nebraska 12 (the famous "one second back on the clock" game)
2010: Texas 20, Nebraska 13

OU-Nebraska, now that was a great series, and between teams in non-contiguous states.  In the good ole days of the Big 8, it was the bookend to OU-Texas.  Texas--then in the SWC--was often the last game before conference games started, or was played the week after the first conference game.  Nebraska was often the next-to-last conference game.  OU-Texas was hate mingled with occasional grudging respect.  OU-Nebraska was respect occasionally mingled with a little hate.  And that series included the greatest college football game ever played, per ESPN (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/page/CFB150games/the-150-greatest-games-college-football-150-year-history).
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2019, 08:27:03 PM
Huskers obviously came out badly considering wins and losses with the Horns during the Big 12 timeframe, but........ 6 games decided by 4 or fewer points

there were only 2 blowouts - one by each team

it felt like a rivalry even though the Huskers only had one victory

hay, I preferred the rivalry with the Sooners too 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 09, 2019, 11:57:41 AM
Huskers obviously came out badly considering wins and losses with the Horns during the Big 12 timeframe, but........ 6 games decided by 4 or fewer points

there were only 2 blowouts - one by each team

it felt like a rivalry even though the Huskers only had one victory

hay, I preferred the rivalry with the Sooners too

Hey if you want to call it a rivalry that's fine with me.  Personally I loved being in the same conference as the Huskers and playing as often as we did, and not just because Texas was fortunate enough to come out on top most of those games.  Many of those were just epic games and a lot of fun to watch.

I wouldn't call Nebraska a "rival" of Texas but it was certainly a really important game and series to Texas over the time the two schools shared a conference.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2019, 03:52:04 PM
I'd rather not call it a rivalry, but many do and it certainly felt like one
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on November 09, 2019, 11:34:24 PM
In other news, who was the dipshit SECSECSEC fan that decided to call a game where both teams go over 40 points "Twelving?"

Cause it sure seems like the two best SECSECSEC teams in all the land just went over 40 points against one another.  What a shitty-ass defensive conference.

I think I'll rename this craptacular phenomenon "SECing" because that sounds equally as stupid.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on November 10, 2019, 08:35:25 AM
In other news, who was the dipshit SECSECSEC fan that decided to call a game where both teams go over 40 points "Twelving?"

Cause it sure seems like the two best SECSECSEC teams in all the land just went over 40 points against one another.  What a shitty-ass defensive conference.

I think I'll rename this craptacular phenomenon "SECing" because that sounds equally as stupid.

I think that was afroman
anyway you stole my thunder

secsecsec
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 01, 2019, 03:17:23 PM
Auburn 48
Alabama 45

Another stellar example of bad defenses doing what they do best-- or, what we call around here, "SECing."

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on December 01, 2019, 03:23:58 PM
Auburn 48
Alabama 45

Another stellar example of bad defenses doing what they do best-- or, what we call around here, "SECing."


yep I actually thought of this thread yesterday during the game
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on December 03, 2019, 09:00:46 AM
Watch what happens in late Nov if we knock LSU out of the CFP.

Good one.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on December 03, 2019, 09:04:58 AM
BC you’re so full of shit and totally presumptuous about what Aggies think.

Whether I should confess or not, I am related to as many Aggies as Longhorns.

The casual football fan Aggie would much rather be playing Big 12 teams - you know, locals, cuz it's more fun.

The redass Aggie who would cut off his wiener to spite UT (and has done so many times) proclaims to much prefer the SEC SEC SEC.

I'll go with the casual Ag whose thinker isn't anti-programmed.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on December 03, 2019, 09:51:09 AM
Im related to a bunch of aggies but Im a Horn and will always be one

BC youre problem is you think too much

Just sit back sip your beer and say hookem
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 03, 2019, 09:57:24 AM
I'm married into a large Aggie family.  They're generally good people.

I can't speak for most of them, but my i s c & aggie wife still has no idea why her team is playing Ole Miss and Miss State and South Carolina and Auburn and Kentucky instead of Texas and Texas Tech and Baylor and TCU.  She regularly mixes with people from those schools, and she doesn't know a single person that graduated from any of her new SEC foes.  No shared eperience, no familiarity,  no historical context, no real interest in those schools.  She loves her Aggies, and will watch them play regardless, but she'd definitely MUCH rather be playing her old SWC/B12 foes.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on December 03, 2019, 10:45:03 AM
I can't speak for most of them, but my i s c & aggie wife still has no idea why her team is playing Ole Miss and Miss State and South Carolina and Auburn and Kentucky instead of Texas and Texas Tech and Baylor and TCU.

Precisely the response I get from the sober-minded Aggie.  And as A&M continues to expand from 40,000 to 65,000 to 200,000 students, I expect the sober-minded Aggie population to explode.

When you take the "special" out of something, you also take the staunch loyalty out of its consumers.

Said another way, the Aggie mystique is being cashed out.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: longhorn320 on December 03, 2019, 11:22:07 AM
BC are you saying the on campus number of aggies is 200000
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 03, 2019, 01:30:47 PM
They'll never get to 200K on campus but they sure seem to be headed that way as an online diploma mill.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on December 04, 2019, 02:56:19 PM
IIRC about 66,000 on campus nowadays but there is some contention about how many are on-line vs actual bodies.  Every college is allowing students to take online courses.  I was up there for Student Bonfire a few weeks ago and there are a lot, and I mean a lot, more buildings and stuff on campus vs my time 20 years ago.  A&M is 5,000 acres, we have the room to handle more students and the state population keeps going up.  I have mixed feelings about it.  There were about 43K when I was there.  I'm not sure 20K more students change a lot from my perspective.  

Perspectives can change a lot due to location.  Being on the Gulf coast (Houston Galveston area) I talk to a lot of Aggies and all are glad we are in the SEC.  Sure the competition is tough but I think all aggies are confident that we are getting there and in much better shape being in a stable conference.  I do not work with or know a single Baylor graduate or TCU graduate and very few Tx Tech.  There are more Longhorns here than any other single group (not surprising).  A few OU.  Surprisingly a lot of Miss St grads and LSU grads.  I work for a fortune 100 company so I meet a lot of different people with various college affiliations.  

Utee as far as your wife not knowing why we play Ole Miss or Miss State my wife couldn't even tell you what conference we play in or what division.  She just knows that it's exciting to play Georgia and LSU over Kansas State and Iowa State.  A lot of Aggies want to play the longhorns again and lots don't, it's pretty well split.  Maybe not 50/50 but close.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 04, 2019, 03:29:17 PM
Georgia and LSU aren't the correct comparisons to Kansas State and Iowa State.  Ole Miss and Miss State are.  If you (or she) are actually excited about playing  Ole Miss and Miss State, well, God love you, because you sure need the help. :)

And don't bother bringing up Kansas, because Arkansas is much worse.

Georgia isn't even in the discussion, they're actually much more like an OOC game for you, and Texas has played Georgia exactly as many times as A&M has, since the Ags joined the SEC.

Beyond that, OU and Texas would be the most comparable to your current annual slate of Alabama and LSU.  I can understand if you prefer to be dominated by LSU and Alabama rather than Texas or Oklahoma, it's really all a wash I suppose. *shrug*

Anyway, as I said, I'm not speaking for you or any Aggies other than my i s c & a aggie wife, and some of her family that I interact with regularly.  And they would much rather be playing historical Texas rivals, than a bunch of unknown and uncared-for teams from the Dirty South. 

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on December 04, 2019, 04:10:57 PM
my i s c & aggie wife still has no idea why her team is playing Ole Miss and Miss State and South Carolina and Auburn and Kentucky instead of Texas and Texas Tech and Baylor and TCU.

That one's easy.  Longhorn Network.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 04, 2019, 06:58:49 PM
That one's easy.  Longhorn Network.
Bwahahahahahahahahaaahahah.

Yeah, no.  The LHN has absolutely nothing to do with A&M's "100-year decision."
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on December 05, 2019, 01:50:38 PM
Yeah, no.  The LHN has absolutely nothing to do with A&M's "100-year decision."

Yeah huh.  It just "looked" that way.  ESPN announces, A&M leaves.  No relation.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2019, 03:53:25 PM
Yeah huh.  It just "looked" that way.  ESPN announces, A&M leaves.  No relation.
Dream on, dream on, dream on, dream until your dreams come true.

A large faction of Ags had been trying to get to the SEC since 1991 (and at that time a large faction of Longhorns wanted to split alongside them).  It didn't happen for either school in 1991 as a result of political pressure within the state, but the Ags continued to look that direction for the next two decades.  Ultimately they got their wish.

But you keep banging that simpleton LHN drum if you want to.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: BrownCounty on December 05, 2019, 04:07:54 PM

Forget it dood.  I'm not placating you anymore on this.  We both lived thru it.  How you gather some other interpretation from bam (LHN) to bam (A&M gone) is your business.

A&M could have gone to the SEC years before.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2019, 05:21:48 PM
No they really couldn't have.  You're just making shit up now.  Your self-loathing is showing again.

The primary reason the SEC wanted them, was because the BTN was finally showing signs of success, and the SEC wanted to copy the business model.  So they wanted new cable/satellite television markets for their subscriber-based money grab.  Even just two years earlier, the cable conference networks weren't generating revenue which is why the B12 voted down a conference network.  The value wasn't there yet. 

The SEC would have taken Texas just the same as Texas A&M, the offer was certainly there, but Texas had decided to forge its own path.  I'm not disagreeing that the LHN caused consternation amongst the conference and personally I wish the B12 had gone forward with a conference network.  But the LHN wasn't the reason the Ags left, not even close-- it was simply their bullshit excuse to bad-mouth Texas and show their asses all the way out the door. 

And for some reason, you bought their bullshit propaganda.  I guess because you hate yourself and Texas so much. *shrug*
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on December 05, 2019, 07:09:53 PM
The reason we left is because the Big 12 ceased to exist as we knew it. Nebraska, a true blue blood program by most accounts, was the first dominoe to fall. CU panicked and bolted. Mizzou wanted to bolt but didn’t have enough juice on its own to make a move. Remember, A&M stuck around for the last real season of the Big 12 and actually was co-champs of the South and beat OU in the h2h. OU of course got the nod to the ccg due to the tie breaker. 

We needed options, and we had options. Mizzou was picked because the sec needed a 14th team and they brought just enough market. 

Utee is right.  UT probably could have went to the SEC but I think hubris blinded them. I mean seriously UT to the pac? 

A&M is and was a good cultural fit, we brought the right markets, and had just enough gravitas to get the invite.  
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2019, 09:49:40 PM
The reason we left is because the Big 12 ceased to exist as we knew it. Nebraska, a true blue blood program by most accounts, was the first dominoe to fall. CU panicked and bolted. Mizzou wanted to bolt but didn’t have enough juice on its own to make a move. Remember, A&M stuck around for the last real season of the Big 12 and actually was co-champs of the South and beat OU in the h2h. OU of course got the nod to the ccg due to the tie breaker. 

We needed options, and we had options. Mizzou was picked because the sec needed a 14th team and they brought just enough market.

Utee is right.  UT probably could have went to the SEC but I think hubris blinded them. I mean seriously UT to the pac? 

A&M is and was a good cultural fit, we brought the right markets, and had just enough gravitas to get the invite. 

Agree, A&M was a good fit in the SEC for sure.  And Texas wasn't, for any number of reasons.  That was true in the 80s when it first floated, it was true in 1991 when it came close to happening anyway, and it was true in 2010.

Texas has plenty of "hubris" no doubt-- but that's not to blame for Texas declining the SEC's invitation in 2010/2011.  It simply wasn't a good fit.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: CWSooner on December 05, 2019, 09:58:03 PM
I suppose that it's interesting to speculate on how things might have gone had UT and OU gone to the SEC when A&M and Mizzou did.

But I was opposed to OU going then and I would still be opposed now.

A lot of OU fans think that the SEC would have been a great cultural fit, and they might be right.  But the SEC is the home of the "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'" mentality.  In that environment, some/many? OU boosters would have felt compelled to join right in.  There have certainly been times in the history of the OU football program where there has been blatant and effective cheating.  What OU cheaters haven't been good at is the not-getting-caught part of cheating.  In the SEC, OU would have cheated and gotten caught.  Probably be sitting on probation right now.

I like the idea of being in a 10-team (even better would be a 9-team) conference.  You play a full round-robin schedule and you don't need no stinkin' rematch-CCG.

But I don't love OU being in the 10-team Big 12 as it is currently organized and as it currently operates.  The disconnect between the name and the reality is jarring.  Playing the CCG is an obvious money-grab.  Texas and (to a somewhat lesser extent) OU have too much power.  And WVU (against which I have no beef) sits out there a thousand miles away from the rest of the conference.  I wish we could trade WVU to the SEC for Mizzou.  I wish we could drop the CCG.  We voted down the Big 12 Network like a bunch of dumbass institutions (and that's my charitable interpretation).

The conference is not operating as it should and it seems evident that we are in a holding pattern waiting for the next realignment shoe to drop.
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 06, 2019, 08:34:31 AM
I don't think OU really has any need to...errr... "bend the rules"... as much as they have in the past.  Good coaching and a lot of stability will work wonders for you.

But you might be right the pressure to "compete" in the SEC might have been too much to resist for a few boosters.

And I totally agree the conference is in a holding pattern, I'm just not sure there will be any pressures to make a change when the current contracts are up.  Let's be honest, if we're talking about teams leaving the B12, the only two that would have options, would be OU and Texas.  And financially there isn't, and won't be, some huge gap between other conference payouts, and what Texas and OU are making.  All B12 members are currently making more money than anyone in the ACC or PAC.  And that's not even counting whatever they might have negotiated for their Tier3 rights.

So then, what's the advantage to leaving, if it's not money?  OU has had plenty of fortune in getting to the CFP in the B12.  Although I don't necessarily agree, most folks would argue that OU's path the CFP in either the B1G or SEC would be much more difficult.  And of course the travel/scheduling would be many times more difficult, especially for the Olympic sports.  The logistical disadvantages to going to a more distant, more far-flung conference, are sizable.  

Now that the dust has settled, and everyone has stopped panicking, and the "animal spirits" have subsided, I think Texas and OU are likely to have a much deeper understanding of the advantages of their current conference affiliation.

And yes, there are plenty of fans at both schools that dream of the sexy matchups agaist Alabama and LSU or Michigan and Ohio State or even USC and... well... really just USC in the PAC.  Personally, I can't say I hate the idea of Oklahoma and Texas going to the SEC West, and the Horns being reunited with traditional rivals Arkansas and Texas A&M, whilst still getting to play OU as a conference game.  But in reality that would also likely end up pushing Alabama and Auburn to the SEC East, so LSU would be the only real interesting new "SEC" team added to our schedule, and we'd just be trading out Iowa State and Kansas State for Ole Miss and Miss State.  

But the administrators at these large universities aren't looking at it that way, anyway.  They're looking at the top line revenue first and foremost, then they're looking at the bottom line profits (which would diminish if travel/logistical expenses increased), and since it's football-driven, they're looking at ability to make the CFP.  And without some REALLY large financial incentive to change conferences, the impetus for a switch really doesn't seem to be there.

Just my own speculation of course. 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on December 06, 2019, 09:48:11 AM
I just don’t see the sec or any other conference expanding. 14 members is already unwieldy enough.  Maybe the PAC 12 since they only have 12. You would’ve thought that they would have just called themselves the PAC and dropped the numbers just in case. 

I see the next big thing as athlete compensation.  That’s going to be the driver. It will start off with the endorsements and escalate from there. 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 06, 2019, 10:50:27 AM
I just don’t see the sec or any other conference expanding. 14 members is already unwieldy enough.  Maybe the PAC 12 since they only have 12. You would’ve thought that they would have just called themselves the PAC and dropped the numbers just in case.

I see the next big thing as athlete compensation.  That’s going to be the driver. It will start off with the endorsements and escalate from there.
16 is no worse than 14, which is already effectively 2 separate conferences aside from a couple crossovers.  Moving to 16 wouldn't change that at all.

Unless a conference decides to ditch members to get down to 12 (or even better, 10) then there's really no reason NOT to expand to 16 if you're already at 14. 

Other than dilution of profit, of course.  It wouldn't make sense for the B1G or the SEC to add a MAC or C-USA school that detracts value rather than adds it, but if the additions are Texas and OU, then the net revenue increase for ALL teams would be sizable.

Athlete compensation will definitely be a big thing, but I don't see it affecting the conference alignment discussion all that much.

Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: Gigem on December 06, 2019, 10:53:50 AM
Well I’ve been in a 12 team conference and a 14 team. If the sec would change its current rotation 14 would work out very well playing all 14 teams home and away every 4 years I believe. 
Title: Re: Texas vs TCU
Post by: utee94 on December 06, 2019, 10:57:48 AM
Well I’ve been in a 12 team conference and a 14 team. If the sec would change its current rotation 14 would work out very well playing all 14 teams home and away every 4 years I believe.

The SEC is in its current rotation in order to protect its traditional rivalries.  I don't see any reason why they'd change that.

If anything, adding two new teams in the West going to 16, and moving Alabama and Auburn over to the East would actually eliminate the need for two of those protected rivalries (Auburn-Georgia and Alabama-Tennessee) which would free up their schedule to enter a better cycle of rotation.