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Topic: Longhorn Football
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utee94 · « **Reply #434 on:** December 12, 2022, 10:42:39 AM »

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 12, 2022, 10:18:09 AM

Any coach will tell you the extra practices are invaluable. Neaux to doing away with bowl games, evening "meaningless" ones.

They're all meaningless outside of the ones that impact the NC, which is now limited to only the CFP games.

And they always have been.

I think the real problem is that for some reason over the past couple decades, fans have attempted to put way more stock in the outcomes, than the coaches or players ever have.

utee94 · « **Reply #435 on:** December 12, 2022, 10:43:49 AM »

Quote from: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 10:21:34 AM

yup, I'd rather my fav team played in one and played well enough to win

the practices and victories add up

Well sure, even though the games are meaningless, I always want to see my team win rather than lose. I mean, in many cases that's next year's team that's out there playing, and you want to have some hope for the future.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #436 on:** December 12, 2022, 11:19:18 AM »

Quote from: utee94 on December 12, 2022, 10:42:39 AM

They're all meaningless outside of the ones that impact the NC, which is now limited to only the CFP games.

And they always have been.

I think the real problem is that for some reason over the past couple decades, fans have attempted to put way more stock in the outcomes, than the coaches or players ever have.

Meh....I've never heard of a player from our school who didn't want to win a game they played. I suspect it's the same for players at most schools. The games may not affect the NC but competitors want to win any time they step on the field, and I don't think they treat any game as meaningless. Some coaches certainly do, but again, others don't.

If nothing else, the the payouts are different, so it matters to an AD which bowl you make, but probably not in the SEC which (I think?) does an equal split revenue sharing from bowls. And it matters to a school's all-time record, so as a fan, that matters to me. One game per year won't do much to a team's all time win%, but over time those games can move the dial a tiny bit.

utee94 · « **Reply #437 on:** December 12, 2022, 12:08:08 PM »

For most bowls outside of the top ones, ADs actually lose money. But they're part of the TV contract so there's no way to opt out of them.

Plenty of players don't care-- that's why so many are opting out now. That's not a NEW thing, it's just more acceptable now to opt out. Previously those guys didn't want to play, but didn't feel like they had a choice.

Some fans are putting WAY more stock into the outcomes than the players and coaches.

But if you care, that's totally cool. I'm just pointing out to folks like Gigem whose feelings have changed over time, that the bowls themselves haven't really changed. They were created to be exhibitions, and that's what they've always been.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #438 on:** December 12, 2022, 12:52:52 PM »

Again, that's true some of the time. I've never seen the LSU player that didn't care about the Sugar Bowl, for example, regardless of whether it was it was not the BCSCG or a playoff game. I don't know many of our fans who don't care about it either. In fact, most every LSU fan I've ever known finds even the lesser bowls exciting and roots for the team to end the year on a high note. Most don't feel LSU's season "ends" with A&M or the SECCG. And I can tell you for sure that fans didn't take it well when LSU didn't even get a bowl in 2020, and not just for the season it meant they had.

longhorn320 · « **Reply #439 on:** December 12, 2022, 12:53:44 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on December 12, 2022, 12:08:08 PM

For most bowls outside of the top ones, ADs actually lose money. But they're part of the TV contract so there's no way to opt out of them.

Plenty of players don't care-- that's why so many are opting out now. That's not a NEW thing, it's just more acceptable now to opt out. Previously those guys didn't want to play, but didn't feel like they had a choice.

Some fans are putting WAY more stock into the outcomes than the players and coaches.

But if you care, that's totally cool. I'm just pointing out to folks like Gigem whose feelings have changed over time, that the bowls themselves haven't really changed. They were created to be exhibitions, and that's what they've always been.

What bowl does aggie play

utee94 · « **Reply #440 on:** December 12, 2022, 12:58:30 PM »

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 12, 2022, 12:52:52 PM

Again, that's true some of the time. I've never seen the LSU player that didn't care about the Sugar Bowl, for example, regardless of whether it was it was not the BCSCG or a playoff game. I don't know many of our fans who don't care about it either. In fact, most every LSU fan I've ever known finds even the lesser bowls exciting and roots for the team to end the year on a high note. Most don't feel LSU's season "ends" with A&M or the SECCG. And I can tell you for sure that fans didn't take it well when LSU didn't even get a bowl in 2020, and not just for the season it meant they had.

You have no idea which players care and which players don't. I can guarantee you that there are players on EVERY team, that don't care. Including LSU.

Or has nobody ever opted out in all of LSU's bowl history?

And like I already said (twice), yes there are fans that freak out when the team misses a bowl. That's my point-- fans care more than the players and coaches. Well, aside from the fact that coaches value the extra practice time, as preparation for next year.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #441 on:** December 12, 2022, 01:18:21 PM »

That's true, but it's disingenuous to say that there's no possible finger on the pulse or idea of what the overall, general feeling is shared by most players. Our guys have wanted to play, for the most part. Even in the case of at least one opt-out I know about, it was strictly a decision not to risk himself prior to the combine or pro-day or whatever. Kid did want to play the game but was advised not to, and probably had other pressures. He's probably not alone.

The WR who had to play QB in the bowl vs. K-State last year famously said when asked about having only 39 scholarship players for the game "This is LSU. If we have 22 we're going to play." I think that's far more typical of the kids in our program. I assume it's the same at most programs, but ymmv. I think there's only a small handful of kids who don't want to get out on the field with their teammates again and do their best.

FearlessF · « **Reply #442 on:** December 12, 2022, 01:40:31 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on December 12, 2022, 10:42:39 AM

I think the real problem is that for some reason over the past couple decades, fans have attempted to put way more stock in the outcomes, than the coaches or players ever have.

well, this can be said for ANY game or scrimmage

FearlessF · « **Reply #443 on:** December 12, 2022, 01:44:08 PM »

Tom Osborne is on record as saying a come from behind win in the 1976 Astro-Bluebonnet bowl saved his job

so, it was to him and a few others quite important

utee94 · « **Reply #444 on:** December 12, 2022, 01:55:36 PM »

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on December 12, 2022, 01:18:21 PM

That's true, but it's disingenuous to say that there's no possible finger on the pulse or idea of what the overall, general feeling is shared by most players. Our guys have wanted to play, for the most part. Even in the case of at least one opt-out I know about, it was strictly a decision not to risk himself prior to the combine or pro-day or whatever. Kid did want to play the game but was advised not to, and probably had other pressures. He's probably not alone.

The WR who had to play QB in the bowl vs. K-State last year famously said when asked about having only 39 scholarship players for the game "This is LSU. If we have 22 we're going to play." I think that's far more typical of the kids in our program. I assume it's the same at most programs, but ymmv. I think there's only a small handful of kids who don't want to get out on the field with their teammates again and do their best.

I've been to bowl games, where our team lost, and then went out on the town afterwards, and I've seen our players out there partying and having a good old time. They weren't broken up about it. Fans were pissed, and the players weren't. Sure, they probably tried to win, you might as well if you have to play, but when they didn't win, they were fine with it.

I expect that's true of most programs, I guess YMMV.

Gigem · « **Reply #445 on:** December 12, 2022, 01:57:09 PM »

My view of bowl games may possibly be tainted by the poor showing we had for the first 15 or so years of my fandom. Something like 10 losses and 2 wins will do that to you.

But hey, obviously it was because the players didn't care.

utee94 · « **Reply #446 on:** December 12, 2022, 01:58:02 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 01:44:08 PM

Tom Osborne is on record as saying a come from behind win in the 1976 Astro-Bluebonnet bowl saved his job

so, it was to him and a few others quite important

Mack Brown is on record saying the only important thing about making a bowl game, is getting the extra practice for next year's team.

Tons of coaches feel that way.

There's a disconnect between fans' objectives, and the coaches' and teams'. And it's been that way for a long, long time.

Bowl games were created to be rewards, meaningless exhibition games. And they still are.

But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching them, or that I don't want my team to win. Of course I do. I just don't place much value on the outcomes.

The game of football was meant to be enjoyed. By the players, and by the fans watching. It's what happens on each play, inside those white lines, that's supposed to provide the entertainment. In some ways, the bowl games are the last remaining expression of that, simply because they ARE meaningless exhibitions.

FearlessF · « **Reply #447 on:** December 12, 2022, 02:00:50 PM »

I agree, but some are obviously more important than others

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