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Topic: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away

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FearlessF

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #140 on: August 12, 2023, 10:24:50 AM »
don't know from that shoddy piece 

I'd guess so

the message is that they don't know
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."


utee94

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #142 on: August 20, 2023, 12:26:18 PM »
The article is conflating a lot of the issues from 2010, and 2011.  Those were two distinctly different time periods for realignment.

In 2010 the LHN didn't exist and had nothing to do with the 2010 negotiations. Everyone knew that Nebraska was bolting and that's when Texas, OU, oSu, A&M, Tech, and Colorado started having talks with the PAC, trying to set up a soft landing spot if the B12 fell apart after Nebraska's departure.  All 6 got PAC invites and when Colorado heard that Baylor was asking UT to bring them in place of Colorado, the Buffs accepted the invite and split town.  Lots of their alumni had long leaned toward the PAC anyway, there are some pretty close ties between the states of Colorado and California and a lot of Buff grads end up there.  So Nebraska and Colorado were gone, and the rest of the B12 was scrambling.  The remaining 5 schools were still talking to the PAC, but that's when A&M decided to slow down their part of the talks, because they had also been in talks with the SEC and many in their camp believed it to be a better fit than the PAC.  And that hesitation gave Fox and ESPN just enough time to come through with big-time contracts that kept the B12 competitive enough for the time being, money-wise, with the B1G and SEC, and that is what convinced Texas to stay home in 2010.  Once Texas decided to stick around in the B12, and A&M was talking to the SEC, the rest of the "PAC-16" discussions ended pretty quickly.

In 2011, things were very different.  The LHN did exist and is why there were never any negotiations between the PAC and UT to begin with-- Texas to the PAC in 2011 was not even a remote possibility.  The PAC was certainly courting Texas, Tech, OU, and oSu, but Texas had no desire to go at that point.  Everyone had known since 2010 when the ags put the big pause on the PAC-16 deal, that the ags were headed east, which is why they weren't a part of the 2011 negotiations with OU, oSu, and Tech.

A couple years later OU and oSu once again flirted with the PAC on their own, but without Texas, the PAC wasn't interested.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2023, 12:51:25 PM by utee94 »


Cincydawg

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #144 on: September 19, 2023, 09:31:52 AM »
Do you think the "new B12" will be a decent conference?  Or a group of quasi-midgets battling it out and beating each other to have some 10-3 champion making the playoff?

FearlessF

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #145 on: September 19, 2023, 09:48:55 AM »
quasi-midgets
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #146 on: September 19, 2023, 09:50:59 AM »
The related question will be whether they make enough money to be competitive longer term.  With no Blue Blood or Big Dog, would they have enough interest to snag a nice contract?

utee94

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #147 on: September 19, 2023, 10:16:52 AM »
Do you think the "new B12" will be a decent conference?  Or a group of quasi-midgets battling it out and beating each other to have some 10-3 champion making the playoff?
The B12 is always going to be a stepping stone conference, but it has traditionally produced some pretty good coaching and some very good players.  Geographically, where it is situated, with so many Texas schools still involved, it's always going to have access to talent.  As for 10-3 champions making the playoff?  Yeah it could happen.  But I don't really care so much about that.  TCU was "unworthy" last year, right up until the point they beat heavily favored Michigan.  Turns out "we" don't know much about competition and competitiveness.

The related question will be whether they make enough money to be competitive longer term.  With no Blue Blood or Big Dog, would they have enough interest to snag a nice contract?
People actually watch B12 football. That's why it was always going to outlast the PAC-- nobody watches PAC football, nobody cares about it, not even their own fans.  I know all of the traditional Big Ten fans on this site poo poo'd me when I kept saying it for the past decade, because of their love of their traditions with the PAC and the Rose Bowl, but post-2011 there was never going to be a scenario where the B12 dissolved and the PAC survived.  The ONLY way that would have happened would have been back in 2010, when Texas and 5 other schools were nervous about the future of the B12 and looked westward.  But even then, ESPN and Fox knew the true value was in the B12, because that's where the television ratings were, and they offered up contract increases to keep the B12 at least somewhat aligned to the money in the SEC and the B1G (and ahead of both the PAC and ACC).

The B12 is actually stable now, precisely because they have no more brands to poach.  Contrast that to the ACC which is currently unstable,  because there are still brands that the B1G and SEC are interested in.  As long as that's true, then the B12 is actually safer than the ACC.  And it's not like the level of competition in the ACC is any better than the B12, in most years it's significantly worse, aside from Clemson-- whose reign seems to be coming to a close.  FSU might or might not be good, but they're not enough to save that conference from all of the basketball schools.

Will the B12 be making as much money as the B1G and the SEC? Of course not.  Will they be making as much as the ACC?  They're already making more, and contractually will continue to do so for another decade.  And then, once the B1G and SEC poach the last remaining desirable brands from the ACC?  I don't see any way the ACC can possibly keep up. 

But will that be enough for the "New B12" to actually compete with the B1G and SEC, when the deltas in TV contracts reach $50M-$70M per school, per year?  No way.  And the ACC will be even further behind.  At that point, there will be two definitively separate tiers within FBS/D1-A, even without some manufactured "breakaway."

MikeDeTiger

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #148 on: September 19, 2023, 10:52:27 AM »
People actually watch the Big 12...but with Texas and Oklahoma in it.  

What's the footprint for viewers strictly within the school fan bases?  

There are surely many like me who watch Big 12 games because often we want to see what the name brands are doing.  When OU and UT are no longer in the B12, I don't know that I'll be watching that much.  

There's going to be a lot of outside viewership lost once there are no Helmets in the league, I suspect.  

utee94

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #149 on: September 19, 2023, 12:08:48 PM »
People actually watch the Big 12...but with Texas and Oklahoma in it. 

What's the footprint for viewers strictly within the school fan bases? 

There are surely many like me who watch Big 12 games because often we want to see what the name brands are doing.  When OU and UT are no longer in the B12, I don't know that I'll be watching that much. 

There's going to be a lot of outside viewership lost once there are no Helmets in the league, I suspect. 


Sure, but even normalizing for only games without the helmets, the B12 consistently got better ratings than both the ACC and the PAC.  Seriously, nobody has watched the PAC in decades, outside of an occasional game with USC or Oregon in it.  But for whatever reason, people DO tune into games with TCU vs. Oklahoma State or West Virginia vs. Kansas State or whatever.  At least, in numbers relative to matchups with the non-helmets from the other conferences.  There are just more college football fans in middle America than there are on the coasts.  Plenty of people have opined on why that might be over the decades.

Here's the ratings from last year's conference championship games, which provide a glimpse into the television ratings realities by conference, relative to one another.  As expected the B1G and the SEC games lead the pack, but the B12 game followed them pretty closely even without a helmet of any kind, and had 1.5X the viewers of the PAC title game which featured USC, and more than 2X the viewers of the ACC game which featured Clemson.


« Last Edit: September 19, 2023, 12:24:26 PM by utee94 »

Cincydawg

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #150 on: September 19, 2023, 12:45:43 PM »
Who will be the top programs in terms of fan interest?

Mr Tulip

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #151 on: September 19, 2023, 12:48:23 PM »
I think the "new" Big 12 will play exciting football that will be attractive to the respective fan bases.

The big issue is going to be national relevance. The very thing that'll make most of the games exciting (that is, they're fairly evenly matched) means it's unlikely that the Big 12 will affect national outcomes for long.

Much gets made about a team's fan base, and all things equal, it's good to have a large one. However, large fan bases don't earn the big viewership numbers by themselves. A "small school" team with an opportunity to win a spot (or demote a contender) will find that game raking in the viewers. Such games will naturally find themselves running in advantageous time slots as well.

The Pac-12 starting at 930 was fantastic for hardcore CFB fans who wanted to keep the party going after the "good" games!

utee94

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #152 on: September 19, 2023, 01:03:40 PM »
Who will be the top programs in terms of fan interest?
Not sure.

BYU has a fairly large national following.

Utah has had some recent success and is fairly popular, and Colorado has the Prime factor, so when they move over next year they'll probably draw some eyeballs.

And then there's TCU which despite its small size, seems to punch above its weight class regularly, and fans dig that.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: B12 Realignment Talk Not Going Away
« Reply #153 on: September 19, 2023, 01:09:53 PM »
Hey, cool....nearly 11 million people watched my team get Dawg-stomped like chumps last year.  

 

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