~2021 MLB Thread~

[Brutus Buckeye]

How are the Braves getting a pass on the American Indian themed name? 

[CWSooner]

How are the Braves getting a pass on the American Indian themed name?

Is "Indians" the problem or is it Chief Wahoo?

[OrangeAfroMan]

Both?

The Braves can claim it's not Native-American-centric.  Anyone can be a group of braves.  The tomahawk is an object, not a people.  Yada-yada-yada.

[CWSooner]

It could be both.  Maybe "Indians" is a problem.  I don't think it should be, where as I think "Redskins" should be a problem.  But if sizeable numbers of American Indians think that a team named "Indians," then it behooves the Cleveland American League baseball franchise to change its name.

I see "Indians" the way I see "Celtics" or "Fighting Irish."  Historically or culturally inaccurate in ways, but not necessarily offensive.

For me, "Braves" is not offensive either, anymore than "Warriors" is.  But Chief Wahoo and the tomahawk chop are problematic.

I'm supposedly 1/32 Cherokee, but I don't identify as being an American Indian and I don't claim to see it through their eyes.

To me, naming teams after American Indians generically or tribes specifically is less of a problem than naming them after criminals ("Outlaws," "Renegades") or mythical/religious evil entities ("Demons," "Devils") or people who fought for the purpose of dissolving the country ("Rebels").

[Brutus Buckeye]

I'm in the middle of Piute country, and they call themselves "Indians."

There is a HS on Navajo Nation called the "Redskins."

Just a bunch of woke Whites being offended on behalf of others who aren't.

[CWSooner]

I think that this predates wokeness.

[FearlessF]

I'm was not trying to downgrade Ohatni's year.  It's an unprecendented combo of pitching and power hitting.
So Ohatni is hitting the equivalent of .300.
But the Babe hit over .340 for his entire career.
Just saying.

but, the Babe din't pitch for his entire career
we'll see about the youngster

[OrangeAfroMan]

Separate from any wokeness, "Indians" is what happens when idiocy becomes tradition.  It's embarrassing.  The only Indians in North America came from India.  
I'd like the name to die because it's radically incorrect.

[FearlessF]

names are simply names, don't mean much to me

OrangeAfroMan might not be accurate today, but it's a label.  Doesn't mean it's correct

if someone someone refers to me as FearlessP, is it a thing?

snowflake is just a word, if you want to take offense, that's on you

[CWSooner]

Separate from any wokeness, "Indians" is what happens when idiocy becomes tradition.  It's embarrassing.  The only Indians in North America came from India. 
I'd like the name to die because it's radically incorrect.

I get your point.
OTOH, the name "Indian" is not what the natives of North America called themselves OR the natives of India, NOR is it what Indians in India call themselves.  It's a variation of what Columbus and all the rest of the Europeans who came behind him called the indigenous inhabitants of the Americas.  So it doesn't matter, IMO, if it's ethnologically incorrect, it's got history on its side.  Since it is not disrespectful, it seems OK to me.
The Vikings didn't call themselves Vikings.  Most of the Crusaders didn't call themselves exactly that, Aryans weren't Germans, and of course the Faber College Mongols weren't using the name that Mongols call/called themselves.

[FearlessF]

Shohei Ohtani is the first AL pitcher to homer and toss 8 innings since Jon Garland on June 18, 2006.

[ELA]

I get your point.
OTOH, the name "Indian" is not what the natives of North America called themselves OR the natives of India, NOR is it what Indians in India call themselves.  It's a variation of what Columbus and all the rest of the Europeans who came behind him called the indigenous inhabitants of the Americas.  So it doesn't matter, IMO, if it's ethnologically incorrect, it's got history on its side.  Since it is not disrespectful, it seems OK to me.
The Vikings didn't call themselves Vikings.  Most of the Crusaders didn't call themselves exactly that, Aryans weren't Germans, and of course the Faber College Mongols weren't using the name that Mongols call/called themselves.

It's a shame we couldn't separate the name from the logo.  I also don't know why the Cleveland Tribe wasn't an option

[Hawkinole]

Separate from any wokeness, "Indians" is what happens when idiocy becomes tradition.  It's embarrassing.  The only Indians in North America came from India. 
I'd like the name to die because it's radically incorrect.

What designation would you replace "Indians" with? I am also not sure why white people are "white," or "caucasion." I don't think either designation is offensive. I refer to my my ancestry as "Northern European."

[OrangeAfroMan]

My post had nothing to do with what is or was offensive.  It's simply incorrect.  CW, your post is proving that languages are different, and the phrase "got history on its side" is what I'm talking about.  Having history on one's side is an excuse to excuse stupidity.

There's nothing inherently offensive about "Indians," it was just factually incorrect.  Perpetuating it for no other reason than it's got history on its side is perpetuating ignorance.  
What would I replace it with?  Simply a correct moniker:  natives. 
The people who Europeans largely killed and replaced were natives.  Done.
.
As for naming sports teams after Natives or Indians or any of it, BB was right - they don't care, it's a white-people-being-outraged-for-them thing.  And for those who argue it's not, I have firsthand knowledge about modern-day tribal leaders:  they're all old men who grew up on a patch of dirt and now have power, influence, and access to tens of millions of dollars.  Yes, that's correct, they're corrupt.  Nearly 100% of the time.  So what they say shouldn't mean much to anyone - whether they're giving their blessing or feigning outrage. 
.
CW, that being said, an old white guy did come up with every sports team name.  Maybe that's why ND or Celtics fans don't take issue with it.  Their names were FUBU: for us, by us.  Indians wasn't.  Hell, Jim Thorpe's college was called the Indians because it was literal.  It wasn't a mascot thing it was informational.
I'll bet you a dollar that's how it started out and it became so common that "Indians" became largely generic over time.....by the people who name sports teams, not by the literal Indians attending those schools (because they had to).  
.
As with most everything that possibly offends, yes, forbidding it may be silly, but so is passionately holding onto it for no better reason than "history on its side."