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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1106 on: March 14, 2022, 04:07:57 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2022, 11:57:46 AM
Putin is just playing poker and going all-in whenever things get tight.  He knows everyone else will fold.  Everyone else has much to lose.  But he has the short stack, so his weapon is putting those with more, at-risk.  And we don't like being at-risk.
I think this is accurate. And everyone else would and should fold. No one wants to take the risk of starting a nuclear war that could be species ending. Only a maniac would even attempt to call the bluff. Even if the chance is less than 1% that Putin really is a complete nutjob and would start a nuclear war- yeah, no thanks. The entire world shutdown over a disease that has a less than 1% chance of hospitalization. Now imagine a nuclear war....yeah, no thanks.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1107 on: March 14, 2022, 04:14:14 PM »
Quote from: CatsbyAZ on March 12, 2022, 01:12:31 PM
If so, is our State Department egging on a protracted conflict meant to bleed the Russian military, regardless of how many Ukrainians are also killed, no matter how many refugees result west into Europe, and no matter how much Ukraine's cities mirror Dresden of February 1945?
this is exactly what the state department/CIA is doing. Hillary Clinton went on MSNBC a few days ago and gleefully admitted as much.

And as far as Poland goes with the fighter jet hot potato fiasco, well they were extremely shrewd to reply to US Sec of State Blinken's public declaration of "we're giving Poland the green light to fly those jets in!" by saying "nah bro, we'll give them to you 'Merica, y'all fly them in." US said publicly at Psaski press conference, "oh no we can't do that, it's too risky." THEN WHY YOU DID YOU TELL POLAND TO JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE. Only logical conclusion is they were willing to risk Polish lives on something so reckless, but not American lives.
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longhorn320

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1108 on: March 14, 2022, 04:27:48 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 04:07:57 PM
I think this is accurate. And everyone else would and should fold. No one wants to take the risk of starting a nuclear war that could be species ending. Only a maniac would even attempt to call the bluff. Even if the chance is less than 1% that Putin really is a complete nutjob and would start a nuclear war- yeah, no thanks. The entire world shutdown over a disease that has a less than 1% chance of hospitalization. Now imagine a nuclear war....yeah, no thanks.
The whole world is calling his bluff.  We dont need to escalate things to get results.  Putin is doing this all by himself.  This will be over in a few months and when it is Putin will be seen as the real loser.

Putin attacking Ukraine to me is very similar to the blunder Hitler committed by invading Russia.

Their ego led them to a huge miscalculation in their military ability. and their foe's resolve.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1109 on: March 14, 2022, 04:30:21 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 12, 2022, 01:16:37 PM
The issue there is flying those fighters from Ramstein to Ukraine with US pilots would be, well dangerous.  The initial idea was to fly them with Polish pilots, which also would be touchy.

Probably the solution is to get Ukrainian pilots into Poland to take them.
not sure that's much of a solution either. how is russia going to know if there's a polish guy or ukrainian guy flying that jet? all they are going to see is a foreign fighter jet coming into Ukraine air space and if they take it as Polish direct involvement and decide to shoot that fighter jet down- shit could get hairy fast. 
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1110 on: March 14, 2022, 04:32:54 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 08:45:41 PM
I think it's more likely to be true than otherwise

call his bluff

end this horseshit
I'm with you 100% that I wish this horseshit as you put it, ended. But this is not a bluff any sane US leader should attempt to call.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1111 on: March 14, 2022, 04:35:40 PM »
Quote from: Temp430 on March 14, 2022, 07:40:52 AM
Posters on this thread need to be careful about saying anything harsh about Putin.  He may decide to start a nuclear war and end civilization as a result of what you post here.  Not to mention the irreparable harm that would do to the climate.
Nah. We can say whatever we want about him. I think utee's nickname of Dickface was pretty good, never heard that one before and I've heard a lot of cuss words. That's a great one that I'll be copying.

US and EU leaders should be careful however, in order not to enflame tensions. Lindsey Graham should shut her ass up and stop calling for the death of Putin. That certainly isn't helping to diffuse the situation.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 04:58:39 PM by Mdot21 »
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1112 on: March 14, 2022, 04:36:42 PM »
Quote from: Temp430 on March 14, 2022, 07:43:24 AM
Clearly giving Ukraine a handful of old Polish Mig29s is way over the line and would result in world wide nuclear destruction.
how you going to give them to them? 
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1113 on: March 14, 2022, 04:43:55 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 08:14:12 AM
Could Russia use chemical weapons in Ukraine? (cnbc.com)

But Poland’s President Andrzej Duda said in an interview Sunday that the use of chemical weapons in Ukraine by Russia could change the West’s calculus over the conflict.
“Of course, everybody hopes that he would not dare do that but ... if he uses any weapons of mass destruction then this will be a game changer in the whole thing,” he told the BBC’s Sophie Raworth Sunday, adding that NATO would have to “think seriously what to do because then it starts to be dangerous not only for Europe … but the whole world.”
Poland's President should really shut the f**k up and let the big boys handle it. My god Poland is such a worthless useless country. Why the f**k are they even in NATO? Like any decisions NATO makes is going to have any input by f**king Poland. It will be the US dictating the terms, as usual. It's US's ball, court, and rules.

And this is the problem with letting a bunch of worthless shitbag useless countries halfway around the world into NATO and giving them an Article V security guarantee from the United States. Why in the flying f**k should the US pledge to defend all these extra countries? It shouldn't. Western Europe- OK- I get it- France, Germany, UK, Italy, Spain- what's done is done and those countries are firmly part of the West. Whatever. But now all of Eastern Europe too? Yeah, no thanks. We gain literally NOTHING by this. Less than nothing, actually.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1114 on: March 14, 2022, 04:46:18 PM »
Quote from: Temp430 on March 14, 2022, 09:45:44 AM
The US and NATO are allowed to change their mind and do so without announcing it to Putin in advance.  The current administration's doctrine that Russia can invade any non-NATO nation with the only sanctions as repercussions is pretty chickenshit.  Putin has the people running things over here afraid of their shadow.
uhhh...what? this is stupid af. think about it for a second. then get back to me. we're not the worlds police. other countries invade countries and commit atrocities all the time. and we tend not to get directly involved. this is not our business, not our fight. 

has nothing to do with being chicken shit. Ukraine isn't in NATO. Therefore Ukraine doesn't get an Article V guarantee. US has no obligation to come to the defense of some random little shitbag country halfway around the world that's being attacked. If it did- the US would be getting involved in new wars 24/7. 
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1115 on: March 14, 2022, 04:46:38 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on March 14, 2022, 09:50:04 AM
When you have a chance to spend billions and lose thousands and potentially millions of lives for a border dispute on the other side of the world, I say you have to do it.
LMFAO. For real.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1116 on: March 14, 2022, 04:52:01 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 14, 2022, 01:04:02 PM
Putin's Ukraine invasion will spur 30-year economic setback: experts (cnbc.com)
Putin's Ukraine invasion will spur 30-year economic setback: experts (cnbc.com)
shit, might set them back even further if Putin decides to nationalize everything, ban foreign imports, and try to completely insulate Russia. 

Goldman Sachs is still making coin trading Russian debt- story just broke about it. And they want stop either. You can bet your ass on that. But if foreign investment leaves and do so permanently, could be more than a 30 year set back for Russia. 

But, Putin is probably going to die soon. Statistically speaking that is. He's already 70. How much longer does he really have to live and rule the country? Maybe the next guy isn't as big a prick? 
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1117 on: March 14, 2022, 04:54:16 PM »
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1118 on: March 14, 2022, 04:57:40 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 14, 2022, 03:54:02 PM
I've never heard of Visegrad24, but that may be one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen.

Anyone who has paid even a little bit of attention to the Syrian war can tell you that it didn't become a complete humanitarian disaster until after the CIA started arming, training, funding, and flooding weapons to "freedom fighting rebels" that were largely just Al-Qaeda affiliates/off-shots- all in an effort to topple the Assad regime.

You can look it up, CIA program called Timber Sycamore. Professor Jeffrey Sachs talks about it below on MSNBC. He predicted the entire outcome of the conflict in Syria once the US got involved and armed, trained, and funded "rebels" (aka terrorists) in a proxy war to fight the Assad regime.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abCkOe5KGxI


Had Assad been overthrown, Syria would literally be run by terrorists right now. Great plan, Obama administration. These guys literally were the stupidest people in the room. And they are back in charge baby.

None of this has anything to do with Tow wanting to fight the Russians in Ukraine, because he believes Russia is the enemy of freedom, democracy, and human rights.  That's his opinion of course,  but he's putting his life on the line for it.  Everything else you posted is... well, completely irrelevant.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1119 on: March 14, 2022, 04:57:58 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on March 14, 2022, 04:27:48 PM
The whole world is calling his bluff.  We dont need to escalate things to get results.  Putin is doing this all by himself.  This will be over in a few months and when it is Putin will be seen as the real loser.

Putin attacking Ukraine to me is very similar to the blunder Hitler committed by invading Russia.

Their ego led them to a huge miscalculation in their military ability. and their foe's resolve.
calling his bluff would be putting US/NATO troops on the ground, setting up no fly zones and directly engaging in war with Putin. 

They aren't doing that. Yet. Thank god. Doesn't mean they won't. Russia has zero shot in a direct fight with the US. Zero. US war machine is the most deadly and destructive and powerful war machine the world has ever known. It can't be seen by Russia. If the guy is backed into a corner and US war machine starts hammering his ass every which way- who knows wtf he might do. What if he decides f**k it, nukes are my only option? Who would be willing to take that risk? It's just too great a risk.
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