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Topic: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?

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FearlessF

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2020, 06:27:35 PM »
so, that's how one of the greatest upsets happened in 1984

Syracuse with 15 first downs, 118 rushing, and 106 yards passing

_________________________________________________ _____________

To say the least, it was an upset of major proportions. Syracuse, coming off a 19-0 home-field loss to Rutgers and looking like the same team which Nebraska had crushed, 63-7, the year before in Lincoln, played the No. 1-ranked Huskers to a standstill through three quarters then ground the visitors down in the fourth for a 17-9 win in the Carrier Dome.
The Huskers were without the nation's leading rusher, senior I-back Jeff Smith, but, said Coach Tom Osborne, "With or without Jeff Smith, it would have been tough. The name of the game for us is to be physical. They were more physical today."

The loss ended a 23-game regular-season win string for Nebraska.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2020, 06:34:16 PM »
When I read that, I thought, "Well, it was probably one of those hell on wheels AF teams that came around from time to time back then."

Friends, it was not.
Yeah, not even close.  It was just Cooper's nearly complete inability to win games starting with the last one on the schedule.  

That game dropped him to 0-2 in Bowls as tOSU's HC and 0-5 in games against Michigan or later in the year.  

Some of Cooper's bowl losses were excusable, for example:
  • In 1989 a mediocre (8-3) tOSU got matched against a better (9-2) Auburn team in the HoF Bowl.  Losses suck, but I get it.  Also note that while Auburn's two losses were both by one score to high-end opponents (by a TD to a TN team that went 11-1 and by eight to an FSU team that went 10-2), tOSU's three losses were not as close nor to as good of teams.  Auburn was just better so it was a bad match for the Buckeyes.  
  • In 1994 a mediocre (8-3) tOSU got matched against a clearly superior (11-1) Bama team in the Citrus Bowl.  Losses suck but that Bama team was one point (24-23 SECCG loss to UF) from playing for a NC while tOSU that year lost by 49 to PSU, by 14 to a bad Illinois team, and by 9 to a mediocre Washington team.  Bama was just better so it was a bad match for the Buckeyes.  

The HoF Bowl loss to Air Force in December of 1990 was nothing like that.  Air Force came in 6-5 while tOSU came in 7-3-1 playing in a much tougher league.  That Air Force team lost to Colorado State, Wyoming, SDSU (by 30), Notre Dame (by 30), and BYU (by 47).  They had no business even being on the same field with a mediocre Big Ten team, let alone beating one.  That is a strong candidate for Cooper's most embarrassing loss at Ohio State.  


bayareabadger

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2020, 06:46:32 PM »
fixed
If they wanna go back to the option, I'd love it. 

I felt like at times the Taylor Martinez offense approximated some option stuff. I guess mostly that first and third year. 

FearlessF

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2020, 07:00:44 PM »
Frost obviously has a lot of option remnants in his offense

mostly pass/run options for the QB

the only decent drive vs the Buckeyes last season in the trashing was a snd quarter drive running the triple option.  8 plays, 49 yards, then an INT at the OSU 26

after the game Frost was asked why it wasn't tried again?

Said they would definitely use it going forward, but didn't see it again all season

they have the QBs to run it, it wouldn't be a tough conversion for them
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2020, 08:10:21 PM »
The thing that impressed me about those Syracuse offenses in that era was that they seemed to be able to do nearly anything reasonably well. 

That is rare.  For example, a lot of pass-the-ball-every-down teams are horrible at running to run clock to maintain a close lead late in a game.  Similarly, a lot of power running and/or option teams look like a fish out of water if they get down late and HAVE to pass.  It seemed to me, in that era, that Syracuse was pretty darn good at just about everything rather than having an identity.  That had to be hell for an opposing DC to prepare for. 
Definitely.  
And I think some offenses try to do that and either can, for a time, or can't - and end up being a mess without an identity.

There are some offenses where you see the diversity of plays and think, 'wow, that's no fair', in an impressive way.  SU had that then, I think GT had it under O'Leary....I felt that way when Tebow was a FR and threw the ball - it wasn't fair to the other team.  

I'm not sure who else had that....maybe certain players - Charlie Ward at FSU comes to mind.  They seem to be multiplying as of late - usually QBs who ran couldn't throw, and vice-versa.  But to have both AND be able to wrap their head around a diverse offensive system is like hitting yahtzee.   

For an OC to be comfortable when:
1 - he has 5-wide
2 - has called an option play
3 - is 3rd and goal at the 1 yard line
4 - behind with 2 minutes left
5 - is ahead with 4 minutes left

That's probably an elusive unicorn.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2020, 08:12:53 PM »
I think Arkansas should run the option.  I don't think they've competed in the SEC while following all the rules at the same time.  They came from the SWC....they'd gobble up the kids who still run the option from TX.  I think it would work. 


Now, they'd have some super-ugly losses to the Bamas and the LSUs where they'd set football back 40 years, but I bet their wins-per-season average would improve.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2020, 08:45:04 PM »
I think Arkansas should run the option.  I don't think they've competed in the SEC while following all the rules at the same time.  They came from the SWC....they'd gobble up the kids who still run the option from TX.  I think it would work. 


Now, they'd have some super-ugly losses to the Bamas and the LSUs where they'd set football back 40 years, but I bet their wins-per-season average would improve.
It couldn't get much worse.
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FearlessF

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2020, 09:23:42 PM »
it might for a season or two, until the recruiting and learning of the option offense caught up
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bayareabadger

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2020, 12:11:43 AM »
Arkansas is a weird one. 

They basically managed to hold their own through the late 1990s and much of the 2000s. Houston Nutt carved out a mess of solid seasons with unusual offenses, often profiting from the fact the SEC west wasn't what it is now. He got to 9-3 or 8-4 with a bunch of teams rated in the 15-20 or worse range (plus the weird Wildcat team). Petrino got the team to that zenith in the way only he can before it came down around him. 

The Nutt era featured unusual offense. Going back to that wouldn't hurt. Weirdly the Bielema era featured some good offenses and one very good defense, but they rarely paired and the team was a hard luck team, robbing him of some crucial capital. Arkansas' issue is the same one everyone but UK and Vandy have in that league. They've at points been good enough to think they should be spending a lot on coaches and recruiting like a big boy. South Carolina fans know the talent they got in the early 2010s and thus won't admit bouncing between 6-8 wins with the occasional 9 or 5 would be good living. South Carolina is in the Arkansas lane of recruit just well enough and think just highly enough of themselves. 

ELA

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2020, 10:15:44 AM »
Arkansas is a weird one.

They basically managed to hold their own through the late 1990s and much of the 2000s. Houston Nutt carved out a mess of solid seasons with unusual offenses, often profiting from the fact the SEC west wasn't what it is now. He got to 9-3 or 8-4 with a bunch of teams rated in the 15-20 or worse range (plus the weird Wildcat team). Petrino got the team to that zenith in the way only he can before it came down around him.

The Nutt era featured unusual offense. Going back to that wouldn't hurt. Weirdly the Bielema era featured some good offenses and one very good defense, but they rarely paired and the team was a hard luck team, robbing him of some crucial capital. Arkansas' issue is the same one everyone but UK and Vandy have in that league. They've at points been good enough to think they should be spending a lot on coaches and recruiting like a big boy. South Carolina fans know the talent they got in the early 2010s and thus won't admit bouncing between 6-8 wins with the occasional 9 or 5 would be good living. South Carolina is in the Arkansas lane of recruit just well enough and think just highly enough of themselves.

Yeah, I think a couple of those teams feasted on down SEC Wests, when Alabama and LSU were going through some things.  The one legitimately great team they may have had was 2006.

They were 10-4, but their losses were to USC, LSU and Florida, who were probably the three best teams in the country, plus a 12-1 Wisconsin team.  LSU and USC finished the season 1-2 in S&P+, and Florida was #5, but won the NC.  They had the #1 SOS.

They got blown out in that disaster of an opener where Nutt hired Malzahn, to get Mustain, and then didn't trust him to run his offense.

The season finale loss to LSU was that great game where LSU scored; McFadden had an 80 yard TD run the next play, then Holliday returned the ensuing kickoff for a TD, and LSU won by 5.

They gave Florida a much better game in the SEC title game than Ohio State did in the national title game.  Percy Harvin scored late to open a 3 point lead into 10.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Why didn't _____ ever implement the option?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2020, 02:24:32 PM »
Definitely. 
And I think some offenses try to do that and either can, for a time, or can't - and end up being a mess without an identity.

There are some offenses where you see the diversity of plays and think, 'wow, that's no fair', in an impressive way.  SU had that then, I think GT had it under O'Leary....I felt that way when Tebow was a FR and threw the ball - it wasn't fair to the other team. 

I'm not sure who else had that....maybe certain players - Charlie Ward at FSU comes to mind.  They seem to be multiplying as of late - usually QBs who ran couldn't throw, and vice-versa.  But to have both AND be able to wrap their head around a diverse offensive system is like hitting yahtzee. 

For an OC to be comfortable when:
1 - he has 5-wide
2 - has called an option play
3 - is 3rd and goal at the 1 yard line
4 - behind with 2 minutes left
5 - is ahead with 4 minutes left

That's probably an elusive unicorn.
I agree with all of this but just want to add that it isn't just the QB.  The QB is a BIG part of it, of course.  In order to be able to throw every down like Spurrier's early teams and run the option you have to have a guy at QB who is capable of both of those things but it is a lot more than that.  Spurrier's fun-n-gun teams practiced pass plays all the freaking time.  They started practicing that in spring camp, practiced it all through fall camp, practiced it all week, every week, and did it every Saturday.  By the time they got to FSU, the SECCG, and the Bowl, they were REALLY good at it in large part because they had LOTS of experience doing it.  At roughly the same time the mid-90's Nebraska teams were doing the same thing with the option.  

If you'd have asked Florida's offense to run Nebraska's system or vice-versa, even with the other team's QB it still wouldn't have been pretty because the rest of the players had little-or-no experience with it.  Florida's mid-90's OL didn't know how to block for the option and Nebraska's mid-90's OL didn't know how to pass-protect.  Same for their backs and receivers.  

The option is more complicated than it looks.  It takes a LOT of practice to be REALLY good at it.  That is what impressed me so much about those Syracuse teams.  They looked comfortable doing basically anything at any given time.  

Sort-of on this subject, back in 2006 I thought that tOSU had a great personnel group for something that I thought would have been hell for opposing DC's, they had:
  • They had a 6-2, 246 lb WR named Roy Hall who I thought could realistically have played TE
  • They had a quality smallish RB in Antonio Pittman (5-11, 207#)
  • They had a quality large RB in Chirs (Beanie) Wells 6-2, 229#)

I thought a great idea would have been to send a personnel grouping of the following onto the field:
  • 5 OL
  • QB Troy Smith
  • WR Ted Ginn
  • WR Anthony Gonzalez
  • WR/TE Roy Hall
  • WR/RB Antonio Pittman
  • FB/RB Beanie Wells

Then see what the Defense sends out.  If they go small (nickel/dime) line up with 2WR (Ginn/Gonzalez), a TE (Hall), a FB (Wells), and a RB (Pittman).  If they go big to stop that power, split Pittman and Hall out as WR's in a single back set with 4WR (Ginn, Gonzalez, Hall, Pittman) and Wells as the single back.  

I would think it would have been VERY difficult for an opposing defense to simultaneously have enough beef on the field to stop the power of that alignment as 2WR/TE/FB/RB and enough speed to cover that alignment as 4WR/1RB.  Then, if you get what you think is really favorable match-up, go up-tempo to prevent substitutions.  


 

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