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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8260 on: July 11, 2023, 06:13:34 PM »
Has anyone even tried to do this with a manufactured earth like atmosphere?
It doesn't matter.  The proof you want could exist and you'd just cast doubt on the source.  
It's all a big waste of time.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8261 on: July 11, 2023, 06:15:30 PM »
Has anyone even tried to do this with a manufactured earth like atmosphere?
Yes.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8262 on: July 11, 2023, 06:17:14 PM »
"Proof" is an interesting word in science. It's mostly used when you can run experiments in closed systems, removing as many extraneous variables as possible, in order to isolate an effect that you're looking to demonstrate.

We *know* that "greenhouse gases" trap infrared energy. That is 100% proven in closed system experiments.

However the Earth is not a closed system. We can't run an experiment with 50 identical Earths where we emit different amounts of CO2/methane and watch the results. We only have the one. It's a complex system. We can't easily remove extraneous variables. So "proof" is basically off the table.

What we can do is observe, and try to build the model of what happens to the output with certain inputs, and then what we can do is predict what will happen if we keep adding those same inputs. Right now, what we're seeing is that the predictions are matching the model.

So you'll never have 100% proof. The question is what level of confidence you need to have to make behavioral changes. 90%? 95%? 99%?

What scientists are saying is that the selected inputs co2 etc is causing the output and Im saying how do we know the output is being caused by their nominated inputs

all we are really doing is monitoring the results and guessing our selected inputs is the cause

maybe there are other inputs that should be considered
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8263 on: July 11, 2023, 06:17:44 PM »
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8264 on: July 11, 2023, 06:18:37 PM »

maybe there are other inputs that should be considered
Yeah, maybe god's doing it.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8265 on: July 11, 2023, 06:24:11 PM »
What scientists are saying is that the selected inputs co2 etc is causing the output and Im saying how do we know the output is being caused by their nominated inputs

all we are really doing is monitoring the results and guessing our selected inputs is the cause

maybe there are other inputs that should be considered
Have you read this? I know I've posted it a dozen times or so... https://history.aip.org/climate/co2.htm

It goes into the very long (>180 years) history of this field of study. Do you really think that if there was some other input that was MORE controlling than CO2 and methane, someone wouldn't have considered it yet? 

and what was the result
  • Increased water vapor >>>>> increased temp
  • Increased methane >>>>> increased temp
  • Increased CO2 >>>>> increased temp


Those are the most powerful greenhouse gases, in order. Water vapor is not in secular growth in the atmosphere. The other two are. 

utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8266 on: July 11, 2023, 06:33:52 PM »
Water vapor is not in secular growth in the atmosphere. The other two are.
Well, unless you're in New Orleans.  Or Houston.  Seems like the humidity gets worse every time I visit. ;)

MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8267 on: July 11, 2023, 06:37:57 PM »
Greenpeace Co-Founder Patrick Moore explains to ELN why he believes carbon dioxide is "good" and climate change is a "fabrication".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzVMSxszudo
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8268 on: July 11, 2023, 06:38:53 PM »
Well, unless you're in New Orleans.  Or Houston.  Seems like the humidity gets worse every time I visit. ;)
You're probably just getting old. :57:

But IMHO at the micro level there could be reasons why warming would lead to more localized humidity. More evaporation in hot areas near water might cause local increases in humidity. But I'm just spitballing that, I have no evidence either way. 

utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8269 on: July 11, 2023, 06:44:34 PM »
You're probably just getting old. :57:

But IMHO at the micro level there could be reasons why warming would lead to more localized humidity. More evaporation in hot areas near water might cause local increases in humidity. But I'm just spitballing that, I have no evidence either way.


I'm actually just kidding around.  I was in NOLA two weeks ago, high temps were around 95, and humidity was high, as it typically is there.

But it felt deliciously balmy compared to the 105 I'd left in Austin.

And then there were those 84-88 degree days on the Florida coast in Pensacola.  Pure bliss.  I wanted to stay forever.  I think I might just move there.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8270 on: July 11, 2023, 06:47:14 PM »
Have you read this? I know I've posted it a dozen times or so... https://history.aip.org/climate/co2.htm

It goes into the very long (>180 years) history of this field of study. Do you really think that if there was some other input that was MORE controlling than CO2 and methane, someone wouldn't have considered it yet?
  • Increased water vapor >>>>> increased temp
  • Increased methane >>>>> increased temp
  • Increased CO2 >>>>> increased temp


Those are the most powerful greenhouse gases, in order. Water vapor is not in secular growth in the atmosphere. The other two are.
You said that scientists actually constructed a replica of earths atmosphere and tested it by varying the co2 mixture

if so do you have the published report on this
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8271 on: July 11, 2023, 06:48:09 PM »
I'm actually just kidding around.  I was in NOLA two weeks ago, high temps were around 95, and humidity was high, as it typically is there.

But it felt deliciously balmy compared to the 105 I'd left in Austin.

And then there were those 84-88 degree days on the Florida coast in Pensacola.  Pure bliss.  I wanted to stay forever.  I think I might just move there.
sandbagger
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8272 on: July 11, 2023, 06:59:15 PM »
This.
.
"Proof" is simply enough evidence to convince enough scientists to come to a consensus conclusion based on existing evidence.
If no amount of evidence is "enough" for you, then longhorn can claim skepticism while simply covering his eyes and ears to the general consensus.
But we know what it actually is.
define enough


knowing full well that the existing evidence may lead to the wrong conclusion

I don't know that there is a consensus among enough scientists to declare the COVID vaccines right or wrong
and there's plenty of existing evidence
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8273 on: July 11, 2023, 07:01:34 PM »
sandbagger
Kids made some sand castles at the beach but I don't recall any bags being involved.

 

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