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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8036 on: June 12, 2023, 05:47:13 PM »
"some folks" and "shoreline" shouldn't be in the same sentence.
40% of the people on the planet live on the coast.
40% of 8 billion is 3.2 billion.  People. 
how many people live within a 2 foot sea level rise???

they may have to back up a few blocks to higher ground

they are not all going to die or become ill
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8037 on: June 12, 2023, 05:47:26 PM »
Plenty of tides are more than 2 feet, some by a lot.
LOL I'm done.  You're unreachable.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8038 on: June 12, 2023, 05:48:41 PM »
how many people live within a 2 foot sea level rise???

they may have to back up a few blocks to higher ground

they are not all going to die or become ill
You can't believe this.  
Really?
You're this limited?  
You have a cartoonish, 5 year old understanding of the world.  I'm embarrassed for you.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8039 on: June 12, 2023, 05:50:58 PM »
really, I'm that limited

you may be able to explain it to me

you are a professional
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8040 on: June 12, 2023, 05:53:14 PM »
I'm good, thanks.
Explaining things to someone who doesn't understand it?  Sure, that's my career.
Explaining things to someone who doesn't want to understand it?  Not as fun, but hell, I post on this board, don't I?  Willing to do it, against my best judgement.
.
But I'm going to pass on explaining it to someone who doesn't understand it nor wants to.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8041 on: June 12, 2023, 05:54:05 PM »
let's say  a half a billion people have to move.

not all at once but over a period of 80-100 years

will that cause the end of life on earth as we know it?

will it even cause the life of those half billion to change drastically?

people have been moving and have been forced to move since the dawn of mankind
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8042 on: June 12, 2023, 06:35:55 PM »
I'm good, thanks.
Are you playing with Ouija Boards & Peyote Buttons again, oh schools out that's right
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8043 on: June 12, 2023, 06:36:35 PM »
people have been moving and have been forced to move since the dawn of mankind
'Skers were forced to move from the Big SWC
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8044 on: June 12, 2023, 06:43:48 PM »
'Skers were forced to move from the Big SWC
very good MrNubbz how can we ever forget
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8045 on: June 12, 2023, 09:55:51 PM »
'Skers were skeered of yet more losses to Texas and tucked their tails and fled.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8046 on: June 12, 2023, 09:56:50 PM »
HELENA, Mont. (AP) — Rikki Held decided to join other young plaintiffs in a lawsuit to force Montana officials to do something about climate change after watching wildfires blacken the sky over her family’s ranch, drought stress the cattle and violent floods erode the banks of a nearby river.

Held and 15 other young people finally got their day in court Monday after suing state officials three years ago for failing to take action to curb global warming. The case is the first climate change lawsuit to reach trial among dozens filed across the U.S. in the last decade.

They are trying to persuade state District Judge Kathy Seeley over a two-week trial that the state’s allegiance to fossil fuel development endangers their health and livelihoods and threatens future generations.

The state court case centers on a government’s obligations to protect people against worsening climate change. Experts say it could set legal precedent but isn’t likely to spur immediate policy changes in fossil fuel-friendly Montana.

A lawyer for the state sought to minimize the case’s significance and said sparsely-populated Montana produces a “minuscule” emissions on a global scale.


Held’s family ranch in southeastern Montana is near some of the planet’s most abundant coal reserves in the sprawling Powder River Basin. State officials have continued to promote that fuel for export to out of state and overseas markets despite scientific consensus that fossil fuels are largely to blame for worsening climate change.

Held spoke on Monday about getting heat alerts on her phone for temperatures up to 110 degrees and about a fire that burned power lines and left her ranch powerless for a month, meaning they couldn’t pump water for their cattle.

“It’s stressful,” Held said, her eyes welling with tears, when asked her feelings about climate change. “That’s my life, and my home is there and it impacts the wellbeing of myself, my family, my community.”

Attorneys for the state declined to question Held while she was on the stand.


Montana Assistant Attorney General Michael Russell said during opening arguments that the state had little control over global emissions. The harms alleged by Held and the other plaintiffs can’t be traced to specific actions by state officials, he said.

“Montana’s emissions are simply too minuscule to make any difference,” Russell said. “Climate change is a global issue that effectively relegates Montana’s role to that of a spectator.”


Russell also suggested that the plaintiffs, who are backed by a well-financed Oregon law firm, had exaggerated the case’s importance, which he said was “far more boring than the plaintiffs would make it out to be.”

In the three years since the lawsuit was filed, the scope of the case has been narrowed to whether Montana’s Environmental Policy Act — which requires state agencies to balance the health of the environment against resource development — is unconstitutional because it does not require officials to consider greenhouse gas emissions or their climate impacts.

Judge Seeley has said she could rule that the state’s climate change exception in its environmental law is at odds with its constitution, but she can’t tell the legislature what to do to remedy the violation.

Environmentalists have called the bench trial a turning point because similar suits in nearly every state have already been dismissed. A favorable decision could add to a handful of rulings globally that have declared governments have a duty to protect citizens from climate change.

Climate researcher Steve Running, who with other scientists was awarded the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize for their work on the topic, said Monday there was “no doubt” climate change was being felt in the state.

Running described an increasingly dire situation of wildfires getting more severe and more frequent in western North America — causing health impacts across the nation — as heavy fossil fuel use continues to churn out emissions at levels problematic for the atmosphere.

“There’s no alternative explanation,” Running said. “If we do nothing and continue with business as usual, the planet models... suggest these accelerating disturbance rates, accelerating sea level rise, accelerating glacial retreat.”

One reason the case may have made it so far in Montana is the state’s constitutional requirement that government “maintain and improve a clean and healthful environment.” Only a few states, including Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and New York, have similar environmental protections in their constitutions.

The plaintiffs criticize state officials for their alleged failure to curb planet-warming emissions while Montana pursued oil, gas and coal development that provides jobs, tax revenue and helps meet the energy needs of people in Montana and elsewhere.

They cite smoke from worsening wildfires choking the air they breathe; drought drying rivers that sustain agriculture, fish, wildlife and recreation; along with reduced snowpack and shortened winter recreation seasons.

Attorney Roger Sullivan said his young clients and their families already were suffering health problems and economic losses as climate change dries up rivers and worsens wildfires. He said Montana has a obligation to protect residents from climate change under its unusually protective state constitution.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8047 on: June 12, 2023, 09:57:24 PM »
'Skers were skeered of yet more losses to Texas and tucked their tails and fled.
try to stay on topic 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8048 on: June 12, 2023, 10:01:29 PM »
HELENA, Mont. (AP) — Rikki Held decided to join other young plaintiffs in a lawsuit to force Montana officials to do something about climate change after watching wildfires blacken the sky over her family’s ranch, drought stress the cattle and violent floods erode the banks of a nearby river.

Held and 15 other young people finally got their day in court Monday after suing state officials three years ago for failing to take action to curb global warming. The case is the first climate change lawsuit to reach trial among dozens filed across the U.S. in the last decade.

They are trying to persuade state District Judge Kathy Seeley over a two-week trial that the state’s allegiance to fossil fuel development endangers their health and livelihoods and threatens future generations.

The state court case centers on a government’s obligations to protect people against worsening climate change. Experts say it could set legal precedent but isn’t likely to spur immediate policy changes in fossil fuel-friendly Montana.

A lawyer for the state sought to minimize the case’s significance and said sparsely-populated Montana produces a “minuscule” emissions on a global scale.


Held’s family ranch in southeastern Montana is near some of the planet’s most abundant coal reserves in the sprawling Powder River Basin. State officials have continued to promote that fuel for export to out of state and overseas markets despite scientific consensus that fossil fuels are largely to blame for worsening climate change.

Held spoke on Monday about getting heat alerts on her phone for temperatures up to 110 degrees and about a fire that burned power lines and left her ranch powerless for a month, meaning they couldn’t pump water for their cattle.

“It’s stressful,” Held said, her eyes welling with tears, when asked her feelings about climate change. “That’s my life, and my home is there and it impacts the wellbeing of myself, my family, my community.”

Attorneys for the state declined to question Held while she was on the stand.


Montana Assistant Attorney General Michael Russell said during opening arguments that the state had little control over global emissions. The harms alleged by Held and the other plaintiffs can’t be traced to specific actions by state officials, he said.

“Montana’s emissions are simply too minuscule to make any difference,” Russell said. “Climate change is a global issue that effectively relegates Montana’s role to that of a spectator.”


Russell also suggested that the plaintiffs, who are backed by a well-financed Oregon law firm, had exaggerated the case’s importance, which he said was “far more boring than the plaintiffs would make it out to be.”

In the three years since the lawsuit was filed, the scope of the case has been narrowed to whether Montana’s Environmental Policy Act — which requires state agencies to balance the health of the environment against resource development — is unconstitutional because it does not require officials to consider greenhouse gas emissions or their climate impacts.

Judge Seeley has said she could rule that the state’s climate change exception in its environmental law is at odds with its constitution, but she can’t tell the legislature what to do to remedy the violation.

Environmentalists have called the bench trial a turning point because similar suits in nearly every state have already been dismissed. A favorable decision could add to a handful of rulings globally that have declared governments have a duty to protect citizens from climate change.

Climate researcher Steve Running, who with other scientists was awarded the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize for their work on the topic, said Monday there was “no doubt” climate change was being felt in the state.

Running described an increasingly dire situation of wildfires getting more severe and more frequent in western North America — causing health impacts across the nation — as heavy fossil fuel use continues to churn out emissions at levels problematic for the atmosphere.

“There’s no alternative explanation,” Running said. “If we do nothing and continue with business as usual, the planet models... suggest these accelerating disturbance rates, accelerating sea level rise, accelerating glacial retreat.”

One reason the case may have made it so far in Montana is the state’s constitutional requirement that government “maintain and improve a clean and healthful environment.” Only a few states, including Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and New York, have similar environmental protections in their constitutions.

The plaintiffs criticize state officials for their alleged failure to curb planet-warming emissions while Montana pursued oil, gas and coal development that provides jobs, tax revenue and helps meet the energy needs of people in Montana and elsewhere.

They cite smoke from worsening wildfires choking the air they breathe; drought drying rivers that sustain agriculture, fish, wildlife and recreation; along with reduced snowpack and shortened winter recreation seasons.

Attorney Roger Sullivan said his young clients and their families already were suffering health problems and economic losses as climate change dries up rivers and worsens wildfires. He said Montana has a obligation to protect residents from climate change under its unusually protective state constitution.

I prefer this to insurance companies shrugging their shoulders and citing "acts of god."  :96:
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8049 on: June 12, 2023, 10:43:37 PM »
or an act of mother nature
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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