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Topic: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)
(Read 13723 times)

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #196 on:** December 07, 2020, 12:27:29 PM »

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on December 07, 2020, 10:01:30 AM

I didn't realize that they were so bereft of history and tradition.

That must suck.

We have tons of that. It just wore Crimson.

Brutus Buckeye · « **Reply #197 on:** December 07, 2020, 12:29:38 PM »

Still does.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #198 on:** December 07, 2020, 12:33:05 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on December 07, 2020, 08:09:00 AM

10 meetings from 1916 to 1953. You'd never know that they were in the same conference with each other.
For much of its history, the SEC was more a consortium of teams that occasionally played each other than a true conference.

Exactly.

When I read @OrangeAfroMan 's post I was surprised that UF was ahead of UTenn overall and flat out shocked that it was by such a large margin. I knew, as he stated above, that TN was generally the SEC's #2 for much of their history. I looked at it as somewhat similar to tOSU/M meaning:

I assumed that TN would have a big advantage over UF early on (like M over tOSU)

However, tOSU STILL hasn't caught Michigan in the H2H series so I mentally converted that to TN/UF and would have assumed that UF hadn't caught TN yet especially because I also assumed that TN's pre-Spurrier lead over UF would have been bigger than M's lead over tOSU from the same timeframe.

I was right about all of that, but I didn't realize how few games UT and UF had played prior to 1990. 1989 was the last time UF and TN didn't play. Prior to that:

Tennesse was .684 against Florida but it was just 13-6 on only 19 games
Michigan was .587 against tOSU but it was 48-33-5 on 86 games

From 1990 to 2019:

Florida was .767 against TN, 23-7 on 30 games
Ohio State was .650 against M, 19-10-1 on 30 games

The lack of early games does seem weird for two teams that have been in the same conference since 1921.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #199 on:** December 07, 2020, 01:54:17 PM »

It's part of the reason 4 of the 12 SEC schools held the other hostage for the permanent cross-divisional games. Sure, UGA-Auburn and Bama-TEnnessee had longtime rivalries with each other, but the rest of us didn't with the others in the conference.

Take Florida, pre-division play. We were paired up with LSU. Why? Don't ask why, there's no real reason. Up to 1990 (when they were decided, not implemented for play until 1992):
Gms - Opp
69 - UGA
68 - Auburn
49 - Miami (OOC)
45 - Miss State
41 - Kentucky
39 - GA Tech (OOC)
37 - LSU.......................so we're paired with the 7th-most played program, 5th-most within the then-current SEC, and 3rd-most West team. What?!? Well, UGA was married to Auburn. And it wasn't Miss State because......reasons?

Okay, so maybe LSU's most common East program was Florida?
Nuuupe.

Gms-Opp
81 - Miss State
80 - Tulane (OOC)
74 - Ole Miss
54 - Rice (OOC)
52 - Alabama
43 - Texas A&M (OOC)
41 - Kentucky
37 - Florida..................So the 8th-most played, 5th within the SEC, and the 2nd-most East team.
.
2 actual rivals basically held the rest of us hostage to get their games, and the rest of us were thrown together like a sandwich.
Alabama-Tennessee were PB& J,
Auburn-Georgia were ham & cheese,
The rest of us are bologna & ketchup.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #200 on:** December 07, 2020, 05:20:25 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2020, 01:54:17 PM

2 actual rivals basically held the rest of us hostage to get their games, and the rest of us were thrown together like a sandwich.
Alabama-Tennessee were PB& J,
Auburn-Georgia were ham & cheese,
The rest of us are bologna & ketchup.

It seems to me it would have made more sense to just not have permanent cross-overs for the other four (now five) teams in each division. At this point I don't think there would be too much wailing and gnashing of teeth even if they eliminated Bama/TN so they could just be like the B1G with only one permanent cross-over (UGA/Auburn for the SEC, PU/IU for the B1G).

Bama/TN:
Here is Bama's winning percentage and # of games against each (then) member of the SEC through 1991 (ie, immediately prior to SEC Divisional play beginning in 1992 - I realize that they made the call in 1990 but I'm using the start date rather than the decision date):

MissSt, 74 games, .831, 60-11-3
TN, 73 games, .589, 40-27-6
Vandy, 69 games, .710, 47-18-4
UGA, 57 games, .605, 33-21-3
LSU, 54 games, .713, 36-13-5
Auburn, 50 games, .630, 31-18-1
Ole Miss, 35 games, .829, 26-5-2
Kentucky, 32 games, .953, 30-1-1
Florida, 25 games, .680, 17-8
USCe, 7 games, 1.000, 7-0
Arky, 2 games, 1.000, 2-0

SEC-E teams in Bold.
Back then TN/Bama appeared to make sense since TN had the best record against Bama of the SEC-E teams and on top of that second best was UGA who was paired up with Auburn so the next best would have been Florida and, pre-1992 that wasn't close at all with Bama owning better than a 2:1 advantage over the Gators.

Since then (not including this year, 1992-2019), Bama against SEC-E teams:

TN, 28 games, .625, 17-10-1
UF, 16 games, .625, 10-6
Vandy, 15 games, 1.000, 15-0
UGA, 10 games, .700, 7-3
USCe, 9 games, .667, 6-3
Kentucky, 8 games, .875, 7-1
Mizzou, 3 games, 1.000, 3-0

None of those stand out to me as must-see every year rivalries. Who cares?

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #201 on:** December 07, 2020, 06:07:50 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2020, 05:20:25 PM

Back then TN/Bama appeared to make sense since TN had the best record against Bama of the SEC-E teams and on top of that second best was UGA who was paired up with Auburn so the next best would have been Florida and, pre-1992 that wasn't close at all with Bama owning better than a 2:1 advantage over the Gators.

Except that this had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Both for either:
a) how well each team did vs Bama (huh?)
b) best vs best, next best vs next best, etc..

Nope. It was 4 teams whining that they'd lose their rival. The other 8 just bent over.

Brutus Buckeye · « **Reply #202 on:** December 07, 2020, 06:52:35 PM »

I always liked the SEC set up, where they go to great lengths to preserve rivalries both in and out of Conference. Unless of course you are aTm...

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Topic: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)

Brutus Buckeye

Re: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)

medinabuckeye1

Re: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)

medinabuckeye1

Re: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)

OrangeAfroMan

Re: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)

Brutus Buckeye

Re: Wake Up and Smell the Chaos (SOC 12-5-20)