header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Various playoff schemes applied to this season

 (Read 4229 times)

MarqHusker

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 5797
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2022, 01:23:57 PM »
I'm not trying a single thing. Just participating in a fantasy what if scenario based on prior formats.  

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 21692
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2022, 01:35:58 PM »
I'm not sure why everyone is bending over backwards to get 12-1 TCU a possible NC.  They lost to 3-loss KSU.  Tough shit. 
Win next time.
Hell, I'd rather punish the Big XII extra, because they have a full round robin, and then still play this unnecessary game as a money grab

rolltidefan

  • Global Moderator
  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 2219
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2022, 01:39:33 PM »
You left off my 6 team model... Any league champs ranked in the top 8 and fill in at large for the rest.

#1 SEC Champion, 13-0 Georgia
#2 B1G Champion, 13-0 Michigan
#7 ACC Champion, 11-2 Clemson
#8 PAC Champion, 10-3 Utah

#3 12-1 TCU
#4 11-1 tOSU

Lowest seeded champs host the at larges, to get to current playoff structure.

(My model would also push to have 4 Super Conferences, not the current "P5" or the mega 2 we are moving towards.)


i agree with this thought process. i'm all for rewarding conf champs, and if they're reasonably good then they deserve a shot. but with the way we currently decide conference champ, giving them an auto bid regardless of everything else is wrong, imo. a 4-5 loss team doesn't deserve to go over tcu or osu this year just because they won a conf. and a 4-5 loss team won't be top 10, or if they are it's an extremely unusual year that's never happened to date.

i'd do something like above. for a larger 12 team playoff, something like conf champs auto bid if in top 12 regardless of p5/g5 designation, then fill in with at large, limit of 3 teams from 1 conf. highest ranked conf champs get bye, remaining champs if any get home games rd 1, rest is based on seeding. and avoid all rematches until semis if possible, conf rematches take precedence if conflict.

so this year year we'd have:

sec champ #1 uga - bye
b1g champ #2 mich - bye
acc champ #7 clemson - bye
pac champ #8 utah - bye

bigxii champ #9 ksu - home rd1

no other champs in top 12, so at large:
#3 tcu - home rd 1
#4 osu - home rd 1
#5 bama - home rd 1
#6 tenn - road rd 1
#10 usc - road rd 1
#11 psu - road rd 1
#12 wash - road rd 1



other things of note:
 - ALL games are on saturday or traditional bowl game dates (dec 31/jan 1). this is non-negotiable.
 - if rose/sugar (or others) demand they be on jan 1, then they must be content with being a permanent quarter final. thems the deals.
 - rose gets higher ranked/seeded team of pac/b1g champs. their opp is determined by seeding and results. tough shit.
 - likewise, sugar gets sec champ unless not top 4, then bigxii champ. opp is determine by seed and results.
 - similarly, orange goes acc.
 - fiesta and cotton go bigxii then pac/sec, respectively.
 - peach goes sec/acc, whoever is higher or left over.
 - pecking order for those are as follows: rose/sugar, orange, fiesta, cotton/peach. jmo, but that's how i sees it. so in this case, suppose troy had ended up ranked ahead of utah, the fiesta gets troy instead, as troy would have qualified for a bye being the 4th highest ranked conf champ and fiesta is lowest in pecking order for that round this year.
 - champ site is bid out. it must hit each region within a 5 year period (we will define regions). so it doesn't always end up in sec/bigxii country. sites must wait 5 years before bidding after hosting. host site is chosen 2 years in advance, meaning no site will have it more often than every 7 years. hopefully that gets some diversity among sites.
 - a host site may not allocate more than 20% of stadium to corps. each school gets tickets for 30% of capacity. the remaining 20% goes to gen public. schools can decide how to divvy up their allotment between season ticket holders, but must provide a reasonable amount to students (no less than 5% or something) and priced at the normal student ticket price for the season.

this has been a public service announcement from the cfp tzar. respeck my authoritah! (i kinda went down rabbit hole there, lol)

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9876
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2022, 01:52:42 PM »
You left off my 6 team model... Any league champs ranked in the top 8 and fill in at large for the rest.

#1 SEC Champion, 13-0 Georgia
#2 B1G Champion, 13-0 Michigan
#7 ACC Champion, 11-2 Clemson
#8 PAC Champion, 10-3 Utah

#3 12-1 TCU
#4 11-1 tOSU

Lowest seeded champs host the at larges, to get to current playoff structure.

(My model would also push to have 4 Super Conferences, not the current "P5" or the mega 2 we are moving towards.)
I kinda like the floor for auto-bids but I think making it the top-6 would accomplish roughly the same thing.

Either addresses my main objection to @ELA 's 10+2 which is that it would include teams like Toledo and FresnoSt that have already shown us that they can't hang with a good P5.

The one advantage, as I see it, to using "top-6" is that it creates more buzz around CCG's because a LOT of teams would have at least a theoretical shot but they might need a multitude of CCG upsets.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 78644
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2022, 02:01:57 PM »
It would be interesting perhaps to apply the 12 game scheme to years in the past, I know we did a few, and see whether some real obvious outages might have happened, e.g., where some team didn't win its conference but was pretty clearly an elite team, or teams tied (which can't happen now at least).


utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20047
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2022, 02:04:17 PM »
I'm not sure why everyone is bending over backwards to get 12-1 TCU a possible NC.  They lost to 3-loss KSU.  Tough shit. 
Win next time.
What a weird and misplaced statement.  I don't see anyone trying to hand TCU a theoretical AND mythical championship.  People are just discussing the various what-if scenarios, which was the entire purpose of this thread.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 78644
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2022, 02:52:53 PM »
Well, to be fair, I personally have been doing my best to get TCU to beat Michigan en route to their NC efforts.

TyphonInc

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1966
  • Easily Amused
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2022, 07:36:54 PM »
The idea of having a "floor" of any Conference Champ is if they are reasonably close to the lowest seeded ranked teams then give them a bid for winning their conference. But don't take bad teams.

In a 6 team format where you take any conference champ in the top 6 and at large bids for the rest you are really just taking the top 6...
Same for the 12 team format (take conference champ in top 12, and at larges in the top 12)... right?

For a 12 team playoff I would take any Conference Champ in the top 16, and then back fill with At Larges. Because a top 16 ranked team is reasonably close to a top 12 team, and they have played and won an extra game. (ie. you get a bit of wiggle room for winning your conference.) But don't take any and every champ, because as others have pointed out, there are some not very good teams that stumble into a conference title.

Again if I had ultimate power... I would pare the system down to 4 reasonably equitable geographical conferences with 16 teams each. Then (since there are only 4 conferences) if they are in the top 8 they would get the auto bid, but if you have an outlier (for example an unranked Wisconsin from a few years back) you are not forced to take a bad conference champ.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20357
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2022, 07:58:08 PM »
What a weird and misplaced statement.  I don't see anyone trying to hand TCU a theoretical AND mythical championship.  People are just discussing the various what-if scenarios, which was the entire purpose of this thread.

I know no one was trying to do that, but in looking over the various posts, that was my takeaway.  Sue me.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 08:10:31 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 78644
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2022, 08:05:01 AM »


The 4th seed has won a few times, the 3rd seed only once (last year).  Often the 4th seed gets waxed.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 41728
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2022, 08:47:59 AM »
the PAC with only 2 appearances, and those a few seasons back with nothing by UCLA or USC

maybe better opportunity in the BIG?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20047
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2022, 08:59:13 AM »
the PAC with only 2 appearances, and those a few seasons back with nothing by UCLA or USC

maybe better opportunity in the BIG?

It's not like UCLA has traditionally been a good football school, and much like Texas, the CFP era has coincided with a terrible decade for USC football.  I think that simply being a down program has much more to do with it, than conference affiliation. 

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 41728
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2022, 09:07:35 AM »
I agree, being good enuff to be undefeated or only one loss is the recipe

of course one-loss in the Big or SEC almost assures a slot
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20047
  • Liked:
Re: Various playoff schemes applied to this season
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2022, 09:16:47 AM »
I agree, being good enuff to be undefeated or only one loss is the recipe

of course one-loss in the Big or SEC almost assures a slot
Well sure, but only a handful of teams have done it in either conference, during the CFP era.

Anyway, it doesn't matter all that much because in a couple of years, pretty much anyone will be able to get into the 12-team CFP.  Heck, maybe even Texas will finally get in.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.